Burton's BatMan and TKJ

[TheBatMan0887]

Moore once congratulated Burton and it's time to know why. While Killing Joke continued the theme of BatMan and Joker of the previous comics with an added sense of darkness and depth, Burton has only been given several sets of comics officially. This analysis will try to swerve the looking at un-definite influences and try more for the groups of books that were given to the film's crew, as they appear here too.

One missed scenario is combined influence, having only pure makings to the film shown. This is the book that he fell in love with and made him more one with the series, so most likely he would keep a few things very similar in concept and character if the book had it also. Regardless, Burton did not have the control he did in Returns, yet two turned out eerily similar to the few comics as well. Though, this is why Penguin became influenced by the book as well, he wasn't given the ability to do so here. Thankfully, it's fitting with how similar The Killing Peck is in structure to the Joker story's presentation, right down to the writer's first name. For others dissing the comparing of the first two films with the sources, there is no such thing as too many coincidences unless you prepare to give him and the crew more credit for knowing it all by heart!!

Now we know Joker's character is in no way off. This Joker in TKJ is only a continuation of the previous tool/prank yielding Joker, yet it appears that since he stated he loved this comic, it's possible it did have more impact. Note the use of the type of cane for instance, or the way he presents himself in moments.

Even if these others with the origin or other may also be before TKJ, it could be noted as being similar in content or concept any who. Full freedom is permitted to show it as much gets buried under mere "what ifs" and "maybe" when we don?t know everything. Remember that we are never given the reasoning why they add a scene in any making of aside what would tell us the same thing again...that they added them and wanted to. Burton was given these to read, so it still stands if it appears in content. Obviously they had it in mind to do something similar to these books they shown him.

Now I?d like to stress that TKJ does NOT follow the first Joker stories, but is later in the timeline. Aside the origin put in, it?s all much later in the story. Therefore, only small amounts are to be inputted to begin with, no matter what. It can therefore stand out much more clearly as character additions or other. Also, it may or may not be stated on the conditions of Joker, but if this is the original tone to a point, then it could have pulled off another impossible to escape death being survived, as in those early era comics. I thought with SpiderMan explaining how he can climb, it could be added to where those chemicals reacted in a way to his cells. Remember, it is a different chemical then the one Joker himself must mask himself from, so it may work.

Enough said. Here we go!!


Pre-written Similarities

1. When Joker takes over the authority of the other mob bosses, he takes down the one who questions him with a hand shake gag. In TKJ, Joker takes over a carnival in the same manner, yet lightly different and with a tainted needle hand shake device. Like the film, it's near the beginning and the first gag.

2. Joker would remove his own bandages and begin laughing at the sight of his new appearance. Anyone would guess that the Joker would have had his first laugh here in any film. Also, the bandages act as the film's helmet.

3. Joker would have a love interest, unlike the original RedHood story.



Probably Influenced or Changed in Light of

1. As already stated, the BatCave and computer are very similar to the one in TKJ, as if the third panel of Alfred coming in is mirrored in image. The computer itself features angled screens on the sides, though it more mimics simpler technology.

2. When Joker barges into Vale's apartment, two thugs stand with him, with the same leather jacket get up. The one who beats Gordon resembles the thug who wails on BatMan in the tower, complete with glasses and short hair. The other thug is closer to being Bob the thug without a hat and being on the opposite side.

Note1. This scene was not in the 86 draft. In this last shooting draft, Viki was taken into Joker's van here, where here he talked about Alicia's death. Bruce would also put on a ski mask like in BatMan Begins and leap onto the roof, later dressing as BatMan and rescuing her.

Note2. Similarly, one is shot and one is knocked out in a simpler fashion. Both who were shot survive. Amusingly, it's coincidently lightly before or after a midpoint of each story.

Note3. If Dreadful Birthday, Dear joker is indeed an influence on the film (e.g. ?I thought I was a Pieces? vs being a March issue and Joker first ever appearing in a Spring comic), combinations of the influences are possible. In fact, we have the first BatMan along side with the latter brand of Joker.

We have Joker blasting a whole in Bruce?s penthouse apartment; standing with two of his thugs on each side as well (he kills the one on the right side later, where Bob stands). Next, after a dispute with Selina, BatMan?s current girlfriend, she?s knocked out by a bundle of roses, both a surprise in their own separate way! It's fitting in that there is some small connections and disputes with Joker and Selina in an early issue as well.

3. The drafts reveal that the picture cutting scene is originally from the taking of old documents pictures showing dead grinning apes from 1977's DDID nerve gas. He made psychotic drawings in crayon and cut out typical pictures of war and death, instead. However, it's been edited from grinning apes since then into soldiers. Instead of crayon drawings, grinning apes and typical scenes of war and destruction being cut out, all the cuttings would now all print a picture of Joker's soon to be victims.

4. When Jack and his crew first come out of the small office in Axis Chemicals, they are VERY QUICKLY met with a single cop who yells out ?freeze!!? like TKJ. After one of his men gets shot, Jack would head up a set of very similar looking stairs as Red Hood did in TKJ. As BatMan did, Gordon would issue his men not to fire in the same vein of taking Jack/Red Hood alive. Not only this, one of the thugs with Jack resembles one of the thugs of TKJ, wearing a thin mustache.

After this, much is inspired by DC #27, though I haven?t heard official statements yet that they had used the original Red Hood story to begin with. So, I?d assume that much is more inspired by the first BatMan story as apparently, Joker would remain at doing things with axis chemicals afterwards and it would be the second time BatMan takes action in the film, just like the first issue.

Note1. In the original 86 script, a CORRUGATED METAL DOOR is said to have risen (like the one Gorden walks through) with a cop shouting out "FREEZE", implying nothing on the multitude of cops. While only one shouts out, it appears that Gorden would have already been outside with Lt. Eckhardt this time around. He's in the very doorway with this cop and a bunch of other cops who begin ducking fire right away. The re-write would have only one of the cops who went with the Lt. appear and Gorden coming in later, acting as BatMan himself when talking to Eckhardt.

5. The final fight with Joker and it's choreography is similar to the end fight in TKJ as well, aside missing some elements. It also happens to be in a similar order as well. BatMan would throw Joker through wooden shutter/doors twice. It happens to be true that Joker would be smashed through objects or doors two times in TKJ as well. Just as the film, the first time is only implied as being thrown through, but the second is clearly done via a heavy punch. He also holds Joker a couple times as well while talking to him and hits him in the belly. Not only this, the bang gun?s (or in this case the ?click click click? gun in TKJ) placement being put near the end of the film may be inspired be TKJ's doing as well. In the early draft before TKJ came out, the bang gag happened in Vicki's apartment.

Note1. The ordering goes like this: 1. Surprised, 2. Held by colure for conversation, with BatMan getting the last words, 3. Thrown through object/wall, 4. Held by colure again and punched through door, 5. Pulls out a gag, 6. Last conversation. Note that none of this was in any draft, but added into the product as this last scene was modified on the fly of filming.

Note2. In the shooting draft, BatMan would ask weather if they were going to kill each other in the tower. This comes up again in TKJ as well at the end, but isn't spoken. Also, Joker broke a 2 by 4 off from a wooden louver and would bash BatMan with it. Joker would continue to beat BatMan until his helicopter would arrive. BatMan, like on BatMan Begins would use a sonar device on the bats nearby in order to attack Joker, sending him to his doom. Despite this being an omen leading to analysing the scene over and over, the draft has less similarity with the way the fight occured then the final product.

Note3. In the draft 86, it's more a scene out of The Predator with BatMan himself as the Predator.

END

So there you have it! Somewhat off, but the character of Joker and several events strike an uncanny similarity. How about how some of the very looks come from this book as well, I?d say it looks the most similar to TKJ?s design. Due to the story being more the original, only looks, personality traits as well as few inspired events could ever come from it. Yet, the claim could still be said on it?and hey, if Alan Moore complimented him!

[Paul (ral)]

Good post TBM0887.

[Grissom]

Excellent stuff, I've always felt Batman was so akin with its source material and truer to it as well.

[TheBatMan0887]

Thank you, again.

[Dark Knight Detective]

That's quite the analyzation. Great job.

[Joker81]

Very Good. I can even see simiarlarities in Batman #1 in burtons Batman. Even down to tone and feel.

[DarkVengeance]

Good Read!

[TheBatMan0887]

Thanks DV and I love your picture of Joker there.

EDIT: I have made some nice points under the axis chemical factory and tweaked several others after realizing something from the scripts batass had shown.

[Azrael]

This deserves to be a feature. 

[The Dark Knight]

This deserves to be a feature. 

I agree. Fantastic work here.