Let's Talk About Superman II?

[Kamdan]

I want to hear all of you guys on The A.C. when we do a commentary for both versions of th film.

[DocLathropBrown]

I agree.

Seriously, just having a film free of Lester's gags in East Huston and the final battle clinches it for me. I've always been the kind of person where a film was ruined by cheese at inappropriate times. Of course, I'm no fan of the FOS toilet in the RDC, but that's the film's only infraction for me on the cheese-o-meter.

It's the same reason why I cannot abide the Pierce Brosnan Bond films. They're just as cheesy and as pun-ridden as the Roger Moore films, but Moore's films were in the 70s and 80s--a very cheesy time. The 90s Bond films should have moved on from that and been like Casino Royale.

The LC may be a "finished" film, but the tone is just too inconsistant for me. I cannot watch it any more. Lester's material is not to my liking, never has been. The RDC is NOT perfect, but it's the only version of S2 I care for.

[THE BAT-MAN]

You know what I find interesting?  Is the enthusiasm that Richard Donner and Tim Burton shared for their franchises and the terrible downfall of their dreams.  When Donner finished Superman: The Movie his enthusiasm was brought back to life, he couldn't wait to finish part II, and his mind was open to all kinds of possibilities for future sequels, but the producers discontinued his involvement with the franchise and sadly, even though we got a glimpse of his cut.  He never truly completed his film or the franchise.

The same domino effect happened to Tim Burton.  When Burton completed Batman Returns his enthusiasm for Batman returned and he too, had his mind open to all kinds of possibilities for future sequels, but the studio heads discouraged this from happening and discontinued his involvement with the franchise.  We were blessed that Tim was able to complete his second installment, unlike Donner, but sadly we never got to see what might have been.     

[Dark Knight Detective]

^ I know what you mean. Why is it always the best directors whose trilogies never get to finish?

[thecolorsblend]

I want to hear all of you guys on The A.C. when we do a commentary for both versions of th film.

If you can schedule it for a Saturday, I'll see what I can do.

[Sandman]

When Superman turns back time in Donner's Cut and everything is fixed and back to normal as if nothing happened.  Clark still has one last showdown with the trucker who beat him at the hot dog diner.  It made no sense, because when he turns back time no one has a memory of what happened.  Yet, everyone reacted like it was round 2 except now Clark wins.

I've never seen the RD cut of the movie, does Superman go back in time again in his cut?

[DocLathropBrown]

Unfortunately, yes. Had Donner been able to actually film the rest of it back in 1980, he would have come up with a different ending that would "restore things to ground zero."

The "turn back time" ending was originally at the end of S2, but through a series of realizations, they decided to put it on the end of the first film to make a more definite conclusion in case they would be no sequel. They filmed 1 and 2 back to back, if you didn't know.

With this cut, they either were going to have to use the Lester Cut memory kiss (Glad they didn't. Giving Supes frivolus powers is another LC infraction), turn back time (original ending), or leave it with Lois knowing (which would have meant Donner-shot ending footage unusable because Lois doesn't remember in it). I wanted them to leave it with Lois knowing. Would have been a nice dramatic punch.

But in order to use the "next day at the Daily Planet" Clark and Lois footage that comes after the turn-back-time bit, they had to go with the original ending. They were kind of stuck.

[Sandman]

Thanks man Yes i remember reading or hearing somthing about the movies being filmed back to back, but the rest is news to me .

[Paul (ral)]

Had Donner been able to actually film the rest of it back in 1980, he would have come up with a different ending that would "restore things to ground zero."

Would he though? That's always been something that bugged me.  Through all the special editions Donner has blasted Lester "that man" and he and Mank have talked about how they would have come up with a different ending - yet after all this time they haven't suggested anything.

Surely they would have discussed it or though about it over the last 30 years!

[DocLathropBrown]

Obviously, he would have.

You mean to say that you think if Donner had been allowed to finish off Superman II back in the late 70s, that he would have re-used the same ending? Richard Donner would not have done that.

But why not come up with a new one? Why bother? The RDC didn't have the budget necessary to really film a new ending, not to mention the cast is MIA so they can't film a new one. They said they would have come up with one had they stayed on. Since they didn't stay on, they didn't ever come up with that new ending, simple as that.