Batman 89 -- truest in spirit to the comics?

[mrpokal]

I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on this one.

While all of the films have taken liberties with the origins and depictions of the characters, that's not really what I'm interested in. I can care less about what is accurate and what is not, and Joker killing Bruce Wayne's parents, Bruce being a recluse, Ras training Bruce, and Joker creating Two-Face (just some examples) are not legitimate faults in any of the films.

However, how the films portray "comic booky-ness" in terms of frame composition and editing is what I find the most compelling. And it is on this criteria which I feel that Batman 89 is truest to the comic book form.

For example, there are some sequences that just seem like they were splashed from the pages of a comic to the screen. I've read the articles comparing panels from the comics to various screenshots from the films, and those are great. I always pull that out to show people that the Burton films are more comic accurate than they are believed to be.

But I'd like to take that further. Costumes and events are only part of the equation. Look at the Axis chemicals scene. The set prominently features lots of sharp, horizontal and vertical lines (pipes, the metal stairs, the catwalk, etc) which give us the subconscious effect of reading a comic. Comics are all about scenes being divided up by sharp horizontal and vertical lines. In addition, the camera angles, which were done before in the TV show, also give us the cinematic impression of reading a comic. Burton films the scenes from a variety of "cooky" angles, and those totally mirror various odd angles that we would see in a comic. When you see the camera angled slightly to the right, or angled a little higher, or whatever, you feel like you're reading a comic. In addition, the editing mirrors the experience of reading a comic. There is not too much camera movement in the film (at least compared to other big budget action films), and the scenes are often chopped up by editing. This gives us the impression of reading a comic panel-by-panel. Obviously, shots are divided up into storyboards on every film, but when you combine the editing with the off-kilter camera angles, the horizontal and vertical lines, the shots come at you in sequences that give you the same feeling as if you were reading a comic.

I hope that makes sense. I just kind of typed it up in about 5 minutes, and I probably forgot a lot of things.

Some other great scenes to look at in this context-

the newsroom scene where the anchor is poisoned (look at the prominent vertical lines that separate the two TVs where the anchors are broadcast)
Joker getting his botched surgery
flashback of the wayne murders

what do you guys think?

[Dark Knight Detective]

While I do like certain alterings for a comic book film (or any other adaptation of something, like a video game), there are times where there are hits & misses.

An example of negative altering would be Ra's as Bruce's teacher. I didn't like that, at all. It was too altered from his role in the comics from when he first meets Bruce & sees him as his successor as the leader of the League of Assassins. And why does he go by the name "Henri Ducard", who was a different character all together (& one of Bruce's many teachers)? That was a big letdown for me.

However, as a positive altering, the Joker-Batman chemistry in BATMAN is great IMO, & it makes sense. Had the Joker been created in 1939, he would've been the Wayne's murderer instead of Joe Chill. Besides that, it just makes the rivalry between the Batman & Joker more personal.

[thecolorsblend]

I've said from the get-go that establishing shot of Gotham City at the top of B89 set the tone for me.  It INSTANTLY suggested a dark city full of darker shadows, with crooked thieves on every street corner and crookeder cops bought and paid for by nasty mob bosses.  The production design SCREAMS Gotham City to me.  It's a town so corrupt, so overflowing with victimized citizens and powerless public officials that Batman fits perfectly into that world.  You get *ALL* of that and more in the brief snatch of the Gotham City skyline we get in that five second shot.  The atmosphere DRIPS off that matte painting.

Beautiful.  Pure visual storytelling.

[The Dark Knight]

Couldn't agree more. It's just perfect. Got to love the look of the sky, a thick blanket of impenetrable black bluish gloom.

[Grissom]

Agreed, that establishing shot of Gotham says alot about the nature of the city and some of its people. I also agree with the original poster that Batman remained "truest" to the comic books in terms of style, story, structure etc. and I have absolutely no problem with Joker killing Bruce's parents, it works brilliantly in the film, sort of like a greek tragedy.

[Batnar]

Great post and I agree 100% with it. I love both Batman and Batman Returns. They do carry that comic bookish feel I can definitely appreciate.
However, I just want to say that Batman 89 is the one that to this day, feels truly "big" in terms of atmosphere.
Though things are compact and over populated looking, the setting still manages to look big. Establishing a big dark city. Whereas in Batman Returns, it seems a lot smaller in comparison. Im not sure if you noticed it.

If you go back and observe, I'm not sure what it was. But the very beginning of Batman 89 when the parents and kid are looking for a cab, that whole shot of the scenario really establishes a bigger setting. And you can believe Batman is somewhere out there watching on.

Whereas in Batman Returns, the setting looked a lot smaller and compressed.  No wide shots, and I think thats what it was.
Everything is so up close and personal, leaving out background setting to a small percentage. Lighting had to do a lot with it too though.

Though BR has a more darker take on Batman, Batman89 is actually much darker in terms of lighting for each setting.  Hiding the true size of the setting.
And for me, felt more comic bookish. 

[Joker81]

The scenes I like in Batman Returns are the rooftop scenes/fights. I didn't like the archetecture of Returns. Some of it almost seems futuristic, a million miles away from the run down old gothic style of Batman.

As much as I like the artistic side of Returns, it would have been great to see the film set at the sets in Pinewood that were used in Batman.

Imagine them Gotham streets lined with snow.

[Dark Knight Detective]

Eh. Pinewood would've been great, but then again, that's one of BATMAN's unique points.

As for the Returns Gotham seeming futuristic, it seems as though Burton had The Dark Knight Returns in mind before the film went into production, or the film takes place years later after BATMAN.

[thecolorsblend]

Whereas in Batman Returns, the setting looked a lot smaller and compressed.  No wide shots, and I think thats what it was.
Everything is so up close and personal, leaving out background setting to a small percentage. Lighting had to do a lot with it too though.

I've wondered if that's in part because they shot it mostly on-set.  B89 had a lot of outdoor photography with sunlight.  The bit in BR where Bruce walks across Gotham Plaza on his way to meet Shreck is a good example.  It sometimes just FEELS staged.  Obviously they could get away with that more during the night sequences though...

[Dark Knight Detective]

Though BR has a more darker take on Batman, Batman89 is actually much darker in terms of lighting for each setting.

You have to remember that BR took place during Christmas time, so a whimsical aspect was necessary. Plus, Gotham City itself is not as dark as before, which is a result of Batman's crime fighting.