Batman Forever Re-edited, would it make a real difference?

[Darth Vader]

That chicken boy story is funny. That's enough to validate the psychological implications of what happened with the Penguin for sure.

[Keatonfan#1]

Well we all have are opinions and if we all liked the same things this would be a very boring world. I really only liked 2 films of the Burton/Schumacher era Batman & Batman Forever.

BATMAN RETURNS is actually a Tim Burton film, with Tim Burton characters, and "Batman" in name only. It is a dark, macabre, morose, overly bizarre, plotless "art film," that tries passing for a Batman movie.
                      BATMAN RETURNS Sucks!
Yes, a Batman fan can hate this film it is a very pointless film, yes I know that there are many of you here that love this film and my take should not be regarded as an insult. I understand all of the ?artistic? things that Burton was doing in RETURNS - but that doesn?t mean one has to like it. I can even accept that Burton may have produced an edgy, cinematically clever ?art film.? However, one can be a Batman fan and dislike RETURNS - just because it was ?dark,? doesn?t make it Batman.
One of the first thoughts that crossed my mind as I began watching BATMAN RETURNS was what the hell is this. This looked and felt totally different than BATMAN ?89. The whole ?Penguin origin? which opened the film just sort of lost me. I felt a glimmer of hope when I saw Keaton as Bruce Wayne on screen for the first time, but this diminished quickly with The Batman fighting the idiotic ?Red Circus Gang.? The movie then went straight downhill from there. BATMAN RETURNS was nothing like I expected. Being the Batman fan that I am, I pretended to like the film. But eventually, I gave in to the fact that this film plain sucked. This macabre, morose, dark abomination was a Batman film in name only. I was very disappointed in Burton's follow up to his 1989 blockbuster, regarding Tim Burton?s take on Batman himself in RETURNS, the director took several missteps with the character. One of the major problems with this Batman is that he is portrayed as a murderer. He kills a member of the Red Circus Gang by setting him afire with the Batmobile?s exhaust flame. This was not done by accident ? it was done on purpose. He later stuffs some sort of bomb down another?s pants and pushes him into a sewer hole - obviously blowing him to bits. And he smiles about it! This totally violates the long time Batman creed of not taking a life.
Another troubling aspect with this Batman is the fact that he is a secondary character in a so-called BATMAN film. Clearly, Mr. Burton was more interested in the villains ? Catwoman, The Penguin, Max Shreck ? than he was in the character the film is named after. The major fault of BATMAN RETURNS is that all the characters are so far removed from their comic book incarnations, that one can hardly even recognize them. Other than the original, 1939 Batman (?ELSEWORLD? tales excluded), when has The Dark Knight been portrayed as a cold-blooded killer? In fact, for 99.9% of the character?s history, one of the centerpieces to his mythos was NOT to kill? When in the comic books has Bruce Wayne ? not Batman ? been depicted as elusive, brooding, indecisive, and bumbling in public? When in the comic books has there been a Penguin character that was raised by actual penguins, lives in the sewer, eats raw fish, and spews black mucus out of his mouth? When did Selina Kyle become Catwoman by being murdered, then magically resurrected by cats? Just how pray tell, does that allow you to become an expert at gymnastics and martial arts?! Yes, this is a film adaptation of Batman and filmmakers must take certain liberties, but WHY stray so far from the established Batman characters of the comics?
I?ll tell you why. In my opinion, Mr. Burton had no intention of delivering the BATMAN sequel that Warner Brothers, and many fans, wanted. He, just like Joel Schumacher after him, was allowed too much control during his second go-around with BATMAN. Mr. Burton was so intent on doing his ?own thing? in BATMAN RETURNS, it was as if he forced his artistic tastes onto Batman and his world. No matter who helms a BATMAN film ? Mr. Burton, Mr. Schumacher, or Mr. Nolan ? there are certain things that need no ?creative license? applied. A homicidal Batman, a black-mucus spewing Oswald Cobblepot, and a Catwoman who returns from the grave via cat-licks are prime examples. This was a ?Burton? film, which just happened to have ?Batman? characters. Mr. Burton had his own agenda, his own story to tell, the fact this was supposed to be Batman was secondary - perhaps even beside the point.
Finally, just when did The Batman do anything ?heroic? in BATMAN RETURNS? I wanted to see Batman do some classic ?Batman stuff? like chase down and dispense justice to street thugs, crime kingpins, and the like. How about some iconic, Batman-like poses once in a while? When, at anytime in this film, did you feel like Batman was saving the day? When he?s taking on the Red Circus Gang? When he?s foiling the Penguin?s kidnapping plans? When he?s saving Gotham from a mass of missile-equipped Penguins? Puh-leez!
The question begs, ?Is BATMAN RETURNS a good Batman film?? Maybe the question should two-fold to include ?Is it a good film?? To the latter I say, meh, perhaps. To the former, I say absolutely not. While it wasn?t my cup of tea, I?m not one to argue that Tim Burton may have concocted a clever ?art? film that gives a nod to German Expressionism and provides satire on urban society. If you find brilliance in BATMAN RETURNS due to Burton?s filmmaking, more power to you, as it boils down to a matter of taste.
But I will argue that BATMAN RETURNS is not a good Batman film. It is just as bad in that regard as BATMAN AND ROBIN. Blasphemy, you say? Because RETURNS is a ?dark? film, makes it a superior Bat-flick? Rubbish. In both cases, you have directors who strayed too far from the current comic book mythos of Batman to do it ?their way? ? Burton with the morose and macabre; Schumacher with the camp and neon. The bomb-in-pants-stuffing Batman in RETURNS is just as appalling as the Bat-card wielding Batman in B&R. I rolled my eyes to ?Eat floor, more fiber,? just the same as to ?Hi Freeze. I?m Batman!? I was put-off equally by the raw-fish eating, sexually repressed Penguin and the campy Mr. Freeze with his terrible puns and one-liners.
Yet, the most compelling argument that this is a bad Batman film is provided by Mr. Burton himself. Ironically, a film he directed titled BATMAN RETURNS isn?t even about Batman. It is a social commentary based on Burton?s own personal ideals about the despair and hopelessness in life.
Batman is a superhero, yet there is nothing heroic about BATMAN RETURNS. There isn?t one moment in this depressing film where we are given the iconic, heroic Batman. Never does this film offer anything a Batman fan can feel good or proud about. There is nothing about this Batman that makes you want to cheer. Not once does this director offer something onscreen that says, ?This is for you, Bat-fans.?
Also this film didn't even seem like a follow up to the original Batman at all, the third film Batman Forever felt more like a followup to the original more than Batman Returns did.
BATMAN RETURNS is the darkest of all the live-action BATMAN films to date. It is a depressing, un-heroic, macabre movie that is a ?Burton Film? first and foremost. Bad film? There's an argument there that it is a good piece of filmmaking. Bad ?Batman? film? Yes.
There were really only 2 films out of the Burton/Schumacher era that were loyal to The Batman, BATMAN and BATMAN FOREVER.
So to conclude my opinion on Batman Returns it sucks, it sucks just as bad as Batman & Robin.
Also in my opinion Val Kilmer was the best Batman in the Burton/Schumacher era, I am glad that Warner Bros. went the way they did with the third film. Batman Forever was Batman and Batman Returns was not Batman.
BATMAN ?89 and BATMAN FOREVER are great batman films BATMAN RETURNS is just a really bad film. Also Warner Bros. were wise not to let Tim Burton direct the 3rd film I believe that he would have went even darker than he did in the 2nd film. I loved Joel Schumacher's vision in BATMAN FOREVER but of couse Joel screwed up in the 4th film but in the 3rd film he did a great job. He got back to The Batman the way he was in BATMAN ?89 Joel's first take on Batman was to me perfect BATMAN FOREVER was more for the fans just like BATMAN ?89 was. BATMAN RETURNS was a screw up, Batman Returns just did not sit well with me at all and I appsolutely loved Batman Forever which was a much better film than that 1992 screw up.  

[Keatonfan#1]

 I do not like BATMAN RETURNS it did not sit well with me at all it sucks plain and simple I never said I liked it if I did I was joking.

[Keatonfan#1]

Hey mykbyk I was joking on all of those topics Val Kilmer is the best Batman of the Burton/Schumacher films he was more suited for the role.

Oh and BATMAN RETURNS is a pointless film basically it is just as bad as Batman & Robin. Just because Returns was a dark film does not make it a Batman film.

[Keatonfan#1]

Well, I for one, am a big Tim Burton fan. I think he's a great visual storyteller, and I've enjoyed most of his movies, specifically Edward Scissorhands, Sleepy Hollow, Pee Wee's Big Adventure, and Batman. But I did not like Batman Returns like I said before it just did not sit well with me at all.

[Keatonfan#1]

hey raleagh you don't know what the hell you are talking about

[Gotham Knight]

I rolled my eyes to ?Eat floor, more fiber,?

Oh yeah, nothing trumps awsome stuff like, "I'll get drive thru." 

That is GOLD, man, GOLD.

[Paul (ral)]

KeatonFan#1, going by your profile you are 19 years old.

You were born around 1989 and Batman was released in 1989.

It's a pity you haven't stood the test of time as well as Batman has.

[BatmanForever]

Re Editing Forever would be better.
they could of replaced the opening scene with a more decent one

[thecolorsblend]

You could reinsert some deleted scenes, make the original opening as it should've been and even throw in a brand new Danny Elfman score... but at the end of the day, you're still going to be left with a goofy Two Face, a spastic Riddler, tons of neon and Chris O'Donnell as Robin.

You can't polish a turd.