"Gotham City..... It always brings a smile to my face."

[Azrael]

Some people might argue that Ledger's Joker as "the catalyst" was little more than a psycho killer with a purple coat. He was great, I loved this take, but I'm tired of the Nicholson-bashing just because Ledger's take can connect more with the modern nihilistic era, not to mention the tastes of today's 14-18 year olds.

Jack Nicholson was a likeable funnyman, yet his actions in the film (he casually killed at his whim, even his his own number two man, he burned the face of his GF) made it apparent that behind this funny surface, he was a pretty psychotic and dangerous guy. This is closer to the "real" Joker IMO, flamboyant, unpredictable AND lethal, not JUST lethal.

[Batmoney]

I love Ledger's performance also, but this is just people jumping on the dark psycho wagon. In twenty years if they put out a Joker who kills kids and rapes people or something more specifically brutal half the people on his wagon right now will jump off and start comparing him to Caesar Romero.

[The Joker]

I think alot of kids today would have liked Ledger's Joker either way, but him passing away did IMO bring that little something extra special to the portrayal that made people perhaps examine it more than it might have otherwise have been.

Personally, I'll probably always prefer Jack's Joker. And for more than just sentimental reasons. Overall, his Joker just seems more akin to the various Joker incarnations that appeared in DC comics and other media for a very good number of years.

[GuedesGothamKnight]

I think alot of kids today would have liked Ledger's Joker either way, but him passing away did IMO bring that little something extra special to the portrayal that made people perhaps examine it more than it might have otherwise have been.

I agree man, Ledger's passing brought a different feel to the charachter... you know, The Joker is a killer. He likes to kill people. And he is DEAD. It's ironic. And Ledger gave an excepcional work, he dissapeared into the role.
Now about 89 Gotham.... man, THAT'S A GOTHAM!

[Joker81]

I agree Nicholsons Joker for me is the best version on film. He had everything, he could be funny, scary and dark, psychotic and flambouyant.

That is why his version has endured for 20 years! I think time will show that Nicholson is still the best. When the Ledger band wagon calms down. Nothing personal to the guy and I like his performance for TDK but his version was too straight. Not enough laughing and he was too 'teenager' moody. No wonder teenagers loved him.

Ironically though, Nicholsons partly the reason TDK was so successful. Peoples curiousity of who was better Ledger or Nicholson.

Nicholson will always be the Joker to me. Iconic perfromance and will live on forever.

[The Dark Knight]

So...Nicholson is better because he laughed more? I just don't see how that makes him better. There's a lot more to a Joker performance than just how much one laughs. Ledger did laugh, chuckle, giggle and whatnot in the film anyway. I like Nicholson, but Ledger is better in my eyes. 

[thecolorsblend]

So...Nicholson is better because he laughed more? I just don't see how that makes him better. There's a lot more to a Joker performance than just how much one laughs. Ledger did laugh, chuckle, giggle and whatnot in the film anyway. I like Nicholson, but Ledger is better in my eyes.

From where I sit, TDK's Joker is any average sociopath, with some Crow make up and Sid Vicious hair thrown in.  Interesting character.  Hell, fascinating character.

But the Joker as I've always read about in the comics?  Not so much.

Nicholson is closer to who the Joker is in the comics.  He's whimsical and murderous, funny and dangerous, comedic and menacing.  Through no fault of Ledger's, TDK's Joker lacks those nuances and contradictions.  Not to spark up yet another Nolan vs. Burton crapfest but I just don't think Nolan's psychologically capable of following and relating to those characters.  Seems to me he takes their names, appearance, habits and makes something "movie-friendly" out of them rather than bringing what's already on the comic page into film.

Personally, I don't think comics fidelity is the end all, be all.  Even so, there's a time and there's a place to improvise (Penguin and Catwoman in BR) and there's a time and place to ease off and let the characters be who they are (Batman, the Joker, etc).

I dig you and your posts, I love TDK as a Batman film (esp Ledger, who was so freaking good he stole scenes he wasn't even in) and I respect Nolan as a director and storyteller but in these sorts of discussions, I don't see how the character Ledger played in TDK is genuinely the Joker as he's existed in the comics for decades.

[Paul (ral)]

There are other threads to discuss the Joker in his many incarnations.

Keep this thread about Furst's Gotham

[The Dark Knight]

I wouldn't say The Joker as seen in TDK is an entirely new character, but I agree that he shook up the system and really made us question what The Joker is. Is he The Joker due to the origin of his appearance, or is it due to how he behaves? In that respect, it was almost a whole new beast. Almost sort of a one-off deal. And with Ledger's passing, that's exactly what it is.

Sure, Nolan could have had it written in that Ledger's Joker was bleached, but we still would have received the same performance from Ledger. Because he isn't bleached, he's the Joker by choice, and in a way crazier and yet more in control of his own insanity. Personally, I'm finding myself caring less and less if Ledger's Joker is closer or not to the character as seen in the comics. He was just exceptionally acted and fascinating.

I do respect your opinion, colors. And I do know where you are coming from. To tell you the truth, I occasionally find myself changing my mind on the matter just like The Joker himself.

[Azrael]

Don't forget the torn mouth. He's not permawhite, but he's not the most good looking guy without his "war" paint, I disagree that he merely "chooses" to be the Joker. Something obviously ugly happened to him (There's a reason his first line is a Nietzsche miquote "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stranger") which we are never shown or told, and he became what he is. The paint and the "Joker" moniker are his choice, yeah, but the fates that drove him to this place probably weren't.

I think an additional reason the Joker was portrayed this way were contemporary sensitivities and the fact that a more "traditional", flamboyant and weird Joker had already been done.