Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne/Batman

[Batmoney]

"The same could be said about DeVito's Penguin, who in my view, is an inspiration for Ledger's Joker."

I always saw a connection also. When I watched Ledger's performance, particularly the second time around, I kept thinking of DeVito and how he immersed himself in the Penguin role. Both of them did the whole transformation thing, and in my opinion, DeVito gave one of the most underrated performances ever.

Funny how one will get an Oscar nod while the other got a Razzie nod, in my view DeVito truly deserved an Oscar for his portrayal of the Penguin.

[Dark Knight Detective]

Funny how one will get an Oscar nod while the other got a Razzie nod, in my view DeVito truly deserved an Oscar for his portrayal of the Penguin.

Out of all things, a Razzie. How disgraceful. DeVito gave character to the Penguin, & he gets nominated for a Razzie. What were these people thinking?

[Scarecrow756]

"The same could be said about DeVito's Penguin, who in my view, is an inspiration for Ledger's Joker."

I always saw a connection also. When I watched Ledger's performance, particularly the second time around, I kept thinking of DeVito and how he immersed himself in the Penguin role. Both of them did the whole transformation thing, and in my opinion, DeVito gave one of the most underrated performances ever.

Funny how one will get an Oscar nod while the other got a Razzie nod, in my view DeVito truly deserved an Oscar for his portrayal of the Penguin.

That is a great disgrace imo, DeVito was awesome as the Penguin, imo one of the finest performances in the 90s, he should have got a Oscar nod.

[batass4880]

The same could be said about DeVito's Penguin

It could be said but that wouldn't make it true.

He's got a point though IMO. DeVito's Penguin was not a man who behaved like an aristocrat, like the comic book, but more down the line of Burgess Merrideth, which I love.

It just depends on what you like I guess. I definitely prefer DeVito's Penguin over the traditional Penguin any day, though I have problems with the circus gang/freak show thing. While I liked Ledger's portrayal I still say Jack's was light years better.

[Dark Knight Detective]

I definitely prefer DeVito's Penguin over the traditional Penguin any day, though I have problems with the circus gang/freak show thing. While I liked Ledger's portrayal I still say Jack's was light years better.

The RTC never bothered me, although I always did wonder why the Joker didn't have a clown themed gang in BATMAN.

[batass4880]

The RTC never bothered me, although I always did wonder why the Joker didn't have a clown themed gang in BATMAN.

The Joker's men in the comics, especially the early ones, never really wore clown masks or make-up, at least I've never seen that. They at least had them in mime make-up at the City Hall sequence. I get what you're saying though, like TDK right?

[Dark Knight Detective]

The Joker's men in the comics, especially the early ones, never really wore clown masks or make-up, at least I've never seen that. They at least had them in mime make-up at the City Hall sequence. I get what you're saying though, like TDK right?

Yes.

[thecolorsblend]

He's got a point though IMO. DeVito's Penguin was not a man who behaved like an aristocrat, like the comic book, but more down the line of Burgess Merrideth, which I love.

I disagree.  We saw Penguin develop a taste for aristocracy over the film's run time.  "I am a mayoral prospect, you know."  "Touch of the bubbley?"  "They didn't put me on a pedestal"...  True, he didn't start out that way and he's not as flamboyant as the comics version.  Even so, everything that's in the comics is, to some degree or another, represented onscreen.  Burton simply added extra things to flesh out the character and enable him to carry the antagonist's part of the narrative.

Contrast that with Ledger's Joker.  "I thought my jokes were bad."  The Joker in the comics wouldn't say something like that and he'd probably kill the man who did.  Also, Ledger's Joker lacked the murderous whimsy of the comics and, indeed, Jack.  Ledger's Joker made light of murder and death but you never really got the idea that he thought the whole thing was a big joke that only he got.

But most obviously, the Joker is the Joker.  He can't stop, he can't "take off the make up", he can't ever be anything other than what he is.

[batass4880]

^ True that. That's why I think DeVito's Penguin was more credible than Ledger's Joker. It was the Frank Miller type of story that Burton and Waters gave him that made it seem more "out there" like Ledger's Joker.

And definitely, "And I thought my jokes were bad!" was totally not a Joker line.

[Dark Knight Detective]

And definitely, "And I thought my jokes were bad!" was totally not a Joker line.

I agree. It seemed very out of place. Plus, he doesn't joke in the film, & he doesn't laugh as much as he should.