The Controversy and Chaos of Batman's origins!

[The Dark Knight]

Agreed, it's his life. I don't know what he'd do without it. He needs it.

[batass4880]

^ Thank god, I'm not alone!

[Paul (ral)]

No disrespect, but wasn?t Burton?s Batman about cold-blooded revenge?

Only when he learned that the Joker and his parent killer were one in the same - then the gloves were off.

If it was the only motivation, then why - once Napier was dead - is his standing on a building as Batman ready to answer the call of the city (in the final shot)?

[The Dark Knight]

Only when he learned that the Joker and his parent killer were one in the same - then the gloves were off.

If it was the only motivation, then why - once Napier was dead - is his standing on a building as Batman ready to answer the call of the city (in the final shot)?

Exactly.

[batass4880]

Only when he learned that the Joker and his parent killer were one in the same - then the gloves were off.

If it was the only motivation, then why - once Napier was dead - is his standing on a building as Batman ready to answer the call of the city (in the final shot)

Batman is an anti-hero. Yes, he basically told, and showed, the city that he is their friend and defender, but I don't feel like he is really doing it for them. I think it's his own selfish, yet selfless, motivation to do what he does. To fight the evil that he couldn't fight when his parents were killed.

As for the Joker being dead, as said above, that's exactly the point. Even though Batman Forever is regarded as crap by some, the line that Bruce told Dick says it all--"Okay, it will happen this way--You make the kill, but your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you go out into the night looking for another face, and another. Until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life."

[Dark Knight Detective]

Batman is an anti-hero.

I wouldn't go & say that he's an anti-hero (that's the definition for the Punisher, my friend). He's dark, but a hero nonetheless.

[thecolorsblend]

Even though Batman Forever is regarded as crap by some, the line that Bruce told Dick says it all--"Okay, it will happen this way--You make the kill, but your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you go out into the night looking for another face, and another. Until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life."

It's not so much that it's crap (although it is), it's that it isn't Burton's film.  Burton shouldn't be held to someone else's themes.

[Dark Knight Detective]

Even though Batman Forever is regarded as crap by some, the line that Bruce told Dick says it all--"Okay, it will happen this way--You make the kill, but your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you go out into the night looking for another face, and another. Until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life."

What's ironic about this speech is that he ends up commiting a murder anyway(come on, he knew Two-Face would go spastic over that toss of coins). If anything, this is one of the very small things that could have tied this film w/ Burton's movies (but due to so many differences, it didn't).

[Joker81]

^ Thank god, I'm not alone!

So, in a round about way you are agreeing that Batman in BB and TDK his motive is less batman-like?

[Joker81]

I think that yes, at first Bruce was motivated by revenge, who wouldnt be he is only human at the end of the day (thats what I like about Batman, he is a human being who can be hurt at the end of the day). And I mean at first when he was young.

I agree the pain he ease's by going out and beating thugs up and stopping crime, but it is not eased by the putting on of the suit and doing the beating. It is eased at the thought that he is doing good. He imagines that if someone could have swooped down and stopped his parents from being slayed they would be still alive. It ease's his guilt. The guilt that he feels responsable for his parents death (another flaw in the BB movie, when he finds out hes not responsable for his parents murder because of the over the top sub-plot with the league of shadows! I prefer the explaination in Batman Forever deleted scenes when Bruce find the diary and is absorbed of his guilt. In BB when Ra's tells him it wasnt his fault - why should be continue being Batman??? At least in Forever he had to be because he had got in too  deep by that stage of his crime fighting career. He was depended on).

So yes, he is a tad selfish. He is fighting crime to ease the guilt he feels for his parents death, but he believes he is doing it for the greater good! I think he is the anti-hero.

Another interesting thought to do with what Raleagh said. The title 'Batman Returns', gives me the impression Batman was 'returning' to save the city. Think about the Batman speech Harvey Dent says at the end of Batman. Its like hes saying 'I'm leaving it to you guys to clean your police force and town up, now that I have got rid of the cancer (Napier/Joker), but I will return when things get tough again.'

I always imagined that Batman goes away after Batman and only comes back when things were getting harder to deal with by request of Gordan and GPD because of the Red Triangle gang and the Penguin.

Think about it Gothams a quieter place at the start of BR.

Just a though guys.