What do you actually LIKE from the Schumacher films?

[DocLathropBrown]

I'll have to watch this scene again later. I have always liked it. The goons spraying lead into the elevator only for Batman to appear and kick their ass. For it to be Val for a solid portion of that would be impressive. The electric gadget is pretty cool too. That's the type of thing I like to see Batman use. Something innovative and not boring.

I always comically refer to that tazer-device as the "Gobble Gun" because of the sound the goons make. 

The Remote Electrical Charge gun from Arkham City instantly reminded me of the Gobble Gun! 

[johnnygobbs]

Sorry to say, the elevator fight scene was the point I thought "oh dear, this film is certainly not going to be 'Batman' or Batman Returns'".  I hadn't cared much for the 'does Master Wayne care to take a sandwich line' and 'No, I'll get a drive-through meal" exchange that opened the film but the utter garishness and camp of the fight between Batman and Two-Face's goons in the bank was where I lost all faith in the film thanks to the over-use of dutch angles, the comical sound effects and campiness of the goons being electrocuted, the boring anonymity of the masked goons in contrast to the Burton had given each of his films' henchmen a relative identity (if a filmmaker doesn't show any interest or care about the credibility of his characters why should the audience?) and the hyper-direction of the fight scenes capped off by the atrocious performances of Tommy Lee Jones (an otherwise brilliant actor) as Two-Face and the excruciating awful 'whiny bank-guard' (who I kept wishing would fall into the vat of acid along with his hearing aid.

Don't get me wrong.  I don't hate Batman Forever and these days more than ever I appreciate it for what it is, a light piece of undemanding entertainment featuring some engaging performances from Jim Carrey, Nicole Kidman and hey, even Chris 'plank of wood' O'Donnell but the bank sequence heralded the moment I really started to lament that Burton was no longer in helming the Batman series.

[DocLathropBrown]

Hey, I love that bank guard!

"OH NO... IT'S BOILING ACID!!!!" 

Comedy gold! 

[Paul (ral)]

Hey, I love that bank guard!

"OH NO... IT'S BOILING ACID!!!!" 

Comedy gold! 

You mean "BOOOOIIIIIILING ACID"

[thecolorsblend]

Sorry to say, the elevator fight scene was the point I thought "oh dear, this film is certainly not going to be 'Batman' or Batman Returns'".

I got that impression from seeing the more sculpted and anatomy-oriented batsuit, the Giger-style Batmobile and the Tokyo'ish Gotham City. I didn't need to see the elevator thing to know that this was going to be a different beast. But once the elevator sequence kicked into gear, Batman did some pretty good martial arts spins and kicks and stuff. The thugs are generic, faceless thugs because they're wearing masks given to them by a guy who wants them to be generic, faceless thugs. I don't see the problem with this approach. They're not characters; they're obstacles for Batman to overcome to achieve his objective. On that basis, they work just fine for me.

[johnnygobbs]

I got that impression from seeing the more sculpted and anatomy-oriented batsuit, the Giger-style Batmobile and the Tokyo'ish Gotham City. I didn't need to see the elevator thing to know that this was going to be a different beast.

Neither did I but it was the elevator scene that made it clear to me that Batman Forever was going to be markedly inferior and much campier than the preceding Burton films.  Up until the silly electrocution moment with the stupid sound effects and the whiny bodyguard I was willing to go along with the film even the 'will sir take a sandwich' groaner.

[thecolorsblend]

Neither did I but it was the elevator scene that made it clear to me that Batman Forever was going to be markedly inferior and much campier than the preceding Burton films.  Up until the silly electrocution moment with the stupid sound effects and the whiny bodyguard I was willing to go along with the film even the 'will sir take a sandwich' groaner.

Camp is probably not the right word. The movie is stylized. It's got a "reality" of its own that's different from what Burton did. It isn't a completely serious affair but I think it gets way too much abuse for "flaws" it doesn't really have.

[johnnygobbs]

Neither did I but it was the elevator scene that made it clear to me that Batman Forever was going to be markedly inferior and much campier than the preceding Burton films.  Up until the silly electrocution moment with the stupid sound effects and the whiny bodyguard I was willing to go along with the film even the 'will sir take a sandwich' groaner.

Camp is probably not the right word. The movie is stylized. It's got a "reality" of its own that's different from what Burton did. It isn't a completely serious affair but I think it gets way too much abuse for "flaws" it doesn't really have.

There is a large body of people who genuinely like this film.  Some (misguided in my opinion) souls even rate the film above Burton's Batman movies.  Personally, I never cared much for 'Batman Forever' which is partly why I wasn't as aghast at 'Batman & Robin' as many critics and audience members were.  For me the decline in quality between 'Batman Returns' and 'Batman Forever' was much more steep than the decline between 'Batman Forever' and 'Batman & Robin'.  The latter two films are very similar, 'Batman & Robin' is just an OTT remake of 'Batman Forever' featuring two main villains, one with a tragic back-story barely glimpsed in flashback and another whose similar 'geeky Wayne Enterprises employee turns green-clad crazy' back-story is more fully depicted, and the introduction of a teenage ally with a mile-wide rebellious streak.

[Silver Nemesis]

The elevator fight is probably the best choreographed fight scene in any Batman film to date. This quote from costume designer Bob Ringwood sheds a little light on it:

''I wanted the suit to be very flexible and much closer to the body, giving Val and whatever stuntmen had to wear it a lot of agility. Val really worked hard on his body and martial arts. In fact, the first martial arts sequence you see in the movie, a bank job that Two-Face is trying to pull off, Val did almost if not all of everything you're seeing, the kicks and everything - in the suit and the cape, which weights 40 or 50 pounds (about 20 kg). The suit is much different. It's much more body concious, and also Val has a great body - he's tall and well-built, and it looks beautiful on him."

http://www.angelfire.com/film/batman/movies/forever/design/costumes.html

I don't think the elevator fight is any sillier than the fight scenes in Batman Returns. Take the main street fight for example: Batman pulling the sword out of the sword swallower's mouth – a gag lifted from a Roger Moore James Bond film – and using it to cut the cartoon dynamite off one of the other clowns; the bit where one clown accidentally hits another clown in the face; the bit where the poodle catches the batarang midair. In my opinion that fight scene is far sillier than any of the fights in Batman Forever.

Some (misguided in my opinion) souls even rate the film above Burton's Batman movies.

I suppose it depends what you want out of a Batman film. It's hard to argue with the consensus that Batman Returns is the better movie of the two. But you could make the argument that Batman Forever is a much better Batman film. It's certainly a far more faithful adaptation of the comics.

[johnnygobbs]

The elevator fight is probably the best choreographed fight scene in any Batman film to date. This quote from costume designer Bob Ringwood sheds a little light on it:

I think the final fight scene in 'Batman '89' is still one of the most inventive, inspired and enjoyable fight scenes of any comic-book movie and the best of all the Batman films including the Nolan ones.

I agree with your point about Batman Forever being arguably closer to the comic-books than the Burton films but it's an argument I read all the time from the detractors and frankly, I don't give a damn.  The Burton films, whatever their fidelity to the source material, are still the most exciting and enjoyable of all the Batman movies IMHO.