What do you actually LIKE from the Schumacher films?

[johnnygobbs]

I know, but BF is not nearly as bad as B&R to me. At least BF had Val Kilmer and Nicole Kidman and a decent script.

And Jim Carrey.

The script for Batman Forever wasn't great IMHO but I do like some of the attempts to deal with Bruce's growing doubts over his life and hid guilt over the nature of his parents' death, as well as his concern that Dick Grayson might end up travelling the same perilous, vengeful road that he did.  Those parts were smart and substantial and I liked the conception of the Riddler/Ed Nygma as the 'geek that turned' (which is a rather over-used trope these days as 'Iron Man 3' demonstrates but felt interesting at the time) pitting him as a self-made industrialist against old-money big-wig Bruce Wayne.

The script for Batman & Robin however is laughably bad and despite my misgivings over Batman Forever I can't believe the same team (Schumacher and Akiva Goldsman) were responsible for both films.

[Edd Grayson]

Jim Carrey did more harm to the movie than good for me. He was entertaining at times but he really was over-the-top. And he got TLJ in the act too...

[johnnygobbs]

Jim Carrey did more harm to the movie than good for me. He was entertaining at times but he really was over-the-top. And he got TLJ in the act too...

Jim Carrey was entertaining.  TLJ had no business trying to copy him.  He would have been far more effective as the 'straight guy' in the pair.  Instead we ended up with two 'jokers'.

[Edd Grayson]

I dig Robin Williams as Riddler though.

[The Laughing Fish]

Am I wrong to say that the comic adaptations to both movies were a little better? Those adaptations did tone down some camp and poor attempt at humour. I thought if the Batman & Robin film was like its comic version, it would've been significantly better than what we were given instead - even if some dumb one-liners still remained. The ending for the comic adaptation of Forever felt too rushed on the other hand.

Schumacher, to his credit, did have a good idea about how Batman could fight many criminals at once. Perhaps if the criminals weren't portrayed as so over-the-top it would've been given more credit.

Doing a Nolanish, grounded thing probably wouldn't have clicked with audiences back in 1995. He gets no credit for it now but I think Schumacher did a hell of a lot of things right.

I don't really think it's a question of making things 'grounded' or 'Nolanized' - after all, the Joker's goons who were all defeated in B89 didn't act so over-the-top when they were all beaten into submission.

[BatmanFanatic93]

Am I wrong to say that the comic adaptations to both movies were a little better? Those adaptations did tone down some camp and poor attempt at humour. I thought if the Batman & Robin film was like its comic version, it would've been significantly better than what we were given instead - even if some dumb one-liners still remained. The ending for the comic adaptation of Forever felt too rushed on the other hand.

To behonest i like the comic adaptations more then the films themselves mainly cause like you said "Those adaptations did tone down some camp and poor attempt at humour" that & i like some of the additional dialog added from the scripts to the books however i do wish they would've kept some scenes from the movies abit into the books cause some of the pages were too short but none the less i enjoy the comic adaptations alot. 

[johnnygobbs]

Am I wrong to say that the comic adaptations to both movies were a little better? Those adaptations did tone down some camp and poor attempt at humour. I thought if the Batman & Robin film was like its comic version, it would've been significantly better than what we were given instead - even if some dumb one-liners still remained. The ending for the comic adaptation of Forever felt too rushed on the other hand.

To behonest i like the comic adaptations more then the films themselves mainly cause like you said "Those adaptations did tone down some camp and poor attempt at humour" that & i like some of the additional dialog added from the scripts to the books however i do wish they would've kept some scenes from the movies abit into the books cause some of the pages were too short but none the less i enjoy the comic adaptations alot. 

I thought the comic-book artwork got progressively worse with each film (so true in spirit to the trajectory of the films then).  However, I really dig the Batman Forever novelisation by Peter David which improves on the decent work done by Craig Shaw Gardner with the Burton novelisations (I don't own the Batman & Robin one).  All the deleted material is there as well as some excellent prologue scenes featuring Edd Nygma as a precocious high school misfit, the pre-Two Face relationship between Harvey Dent and Batman which partly revolved around the former clearing the latter of the crimes he was framed of in 'Batman Returns' and a nice encounter between Chase Meridian and the Grayson family who apprehend a mugger on her behalf.  It's pretty well-written and fleshes out a lot of the film's characters.

[JokerMeThis]

I think Val Kilmer was pretty good as Batman and Bruce Wayne. Better than Bale in TDK I think. George Clooney was pretty good as Bruce Wayne.

Chris O'Donnell was okay as Robin. I don't know the character all that well so I can't really judge. He didn't bother me though and I found him very sympathetic in Batman Forever.

Nicole Kidman and Uma Thurman were unbelievably beautiful. Kidman's acting was decent. I don't think we should've expected anything special from her because of the shallow nature of Chase though.

I liked that Gordon got more of a role in the Schumacher movies with both Batman and Bruce. He of course doesn't know they're the same man.

Jim Carey was funny and entertaining. Not great though. I'm not really a huge fan of the Riddler scenes in Batman Forever. The best scenes in the movie are those focusing on Bruce/Batman, Dick/Robin, Alfred, Chase and Gordon in my opinion.

Tommy Lee Jones looked great as Two Face. Much better than the overly disgusting version of the character in The Dark Knight. I liked his two-faced clothes, shoes and hair. I think his speech at the bank to the bank guard and his speech at the end of the movie before he dies are very accurate to Two-Face. I like the "two" theme discussed at the beginning of the movie.

Mr. Freeze had a good background story and scenes in which he is thinking about his wife and depressed are good.

Poison Ivy is funny and very entertaining to listen to.

There is lots of good drama and heart-warming scenes like those involving Bruce and Dick's depression and anger, Bruce getting psychological help from Chase, the scenes between Bruce and Alfred in Batman and Robin, the scene when Batman gets Mr. Freeze to help Alfred and he does, Mr. Freeze's reaction when he learns his wife is still alive.

Bane looks interesting.

Arkham Asylum in both movies looks great and is very creepy.

The Batcave is great.

The Batmobile and other vehicles are pretty cool.

I like getting to see a lot of Wayne Manor in the two movies.

[The Laughing Fish]

Tommy Lee Jones looked great as Two Face. Much better than the overly disgusting version of the character in The Dark Knight. I liked his two-faced clothes, shoes and hair. I think his speech at the bank to the bank guard and his speech at the end of the movie before he dies are very accurate to Two-Face. I like the "two" theme discussed at the beginning of the movie.

I thought the make-up for Jones' Two-Face wasn't too bad, but I would have preferred a black and white/black and brown suit instead of the campy outfit he wore. The duality theme of that line as you said, embodied the character rather than the contrived change angle in TDK.

And as for Two-Face in TDK, visually - that was absolute bullsh!+. As if anyone could survive that kind of disfigurement, and as if the hospital wouldn't have gotten rid of his clothes! Again, a Joker with permanent white skin is unrealistic, but not only surviving a severe burn disfigurement is possible - you can still talk and see properly despite one side of your face is burnt to your skull?! 

There is lots of good drama and heart-warming scenes like those involving Bruce and Dick's depression and anger, Bruce getting psychological help from Chase, the scenes between Bruce and Alfred in Batman and Robin, the scene when Batman gets Mr. Freeze to help Alfred and he does, Mr. Freeze's reaction when he learns his wife is still alive.

I'll say it again, if the attempts at humor were actually witty and weren't cringeworthy, and with a few rewrites for some scenes, I'd not only say that Schumacher's Batman wouldn't have been so bad but they wouldn't receive the negative notoriety they are known nowadays. It's a shame that the fear of the Returns style controversy and studio meddling got the better of WB and the producers.

[JokerMeThis]

I don't mind how unrealistic TDK's Two Face is. It's just a comic book fantasy as far as I'm concerned. I just thought he was to disgusting looking. He looked worse than anything in Batman Returns I think.

Other things I like in the Schumacher Batman movies are:

Bruce's flashbacks and repressed memories.

The scenes in Batman and Robin where Bruce remembers times from his childhood with Alfred.

The conversations Bruce and Alfred have when Alfred is subtly implying that he is dying and Bruce seems to understand even though neither of them says they know, we know they know.

The scene when Mr. Freeze is watching the movie of his wedding.

When Mr. Freeze is with his wife when she's in the suspended animation chamber.

There really are a lot of good things in these two movies really.