THE FLASH (1990) Television Series Discussion

[thecolorsblend]

Shipp, Routh and (somewhat) Amell seem to be the only cast members who are still engaged with these characters, this material and this world. Everybody else seems completely checked out and disinterested. Gustin in particular often looks like he'd rather be somewhere else (dammit, ANYWHERE else). But even the other cast members don't seem all that invested in what they're doing anymore.

Berlanti (or someone) said COIE is probably the end of the line for these crossovers. Finis. No mas. From now on, apparently, the various shows won't all join together like this. Well, duh. Arrow is coming to an end, from the sounds of things Batwoman isn't long for this world, Supergirl isn't far behind and Legends Of Tomorrow has never not been on a bubble. The Flash is doing decent ratings but even that has declined a bit.

They won't do another mega crossover like this again? Yeah, tell me something I don't know, guys.

[The Laughing Fish]

Arrow is coming to an end, from the sounds of things Batwoman isn't long for this world, Supergirl isn't far behind and Legends Of Tomorrow has never not been on a bubble. The Flash is doing decent ratings but even that has declined a bit.

Hold your horses, the Arrowverse isn't finished yet. At least not for another season.

On late Tuesday, The CW announced it renewed almost its entire slate of shows, including DC Comics series like The Flash, Supergirl, and Black Lightning. The only exceptions are shows already scheduled to end, like Arrow and The 100, and the Riverdale spinoff Katy Keene, which received an additional 13-episode pickup the network just granted.

Looking at only the DC shows, here's a quick count of The CW's renewals.

The Flash renewed for Season 7
Supergirl renewed for Season 6
Legends of Tomorrow renewed for Season 6
Black Lightning renewed for Season 4
Batwoman renewed for Season 2

https://www.inverse.com/article/62193-arrowverse-cw-season-renewals-smaller-crossover-2020-crisis

Yes, I know your point was about the crossovers, but who knows, the producers may try to change their mind and try to milk another one. In spite of low budget quality and all.

Of course, Greg Berlanti was given control to adapt a Green Lantern Corps series for the new HBO Max streaming service, which was reported months ago. The concept was initially supposed to be a movie set in the DCEU. Snakes.

[The Laughing Fish]

Man...looking back at the Art Deco atmosphere and quirky sense of humour and how it reminded me of B89, I actually thought in my young little mind that this crossover would come to fruition one day. Sighs.

I found this fan-made retro trailer of how a Justice League film might've looked like back in the early 90s. I liked how it superimposed the lines and footage from The Flash's pilot episode and directed it at Keaton's Batman on the 34 second mark.

[Silver Nemesis]

I don't follow any of the DC CW shows anymore, but those who do might be interested to know that John Wesley Shipp is returning as the Flash in season 2 of Stargirl. He obviously won't be playing the Earth-90 Flash, since they already killed him off, but will instead be portraying the Jay Garrick version.
https://ew.com/tv/john-wesley-shipp-the-flash-stargirl-season-2/

[Silver Nemesis]

This is interesting. Rex Smith recently spoke about the proposed Daredevil TV series that he and John Rhys-Davies were meant to star in. It's long been known that the 1989 TV movie The Trial of the Incredible Hulk was intended as a backdoor pilot for that show, but the series was never picked up.

Now it's been revealed that one of the reasons CBS passed on Daredevil was because of The Flash. According to Smith:

"It was not just a guest star thing for film. This whole effort was a springboard for a series for the Daredevil. We were so excited, John and I both. He was signed on for the series too, to be my Moriarty for Sherlock Holmes. There'd be other baddies, but the real baddie that always had his hand in it was going to be John.

I hear from my agent. He goes, 'We have a problem.' I go, 'What kind of problem?' He goes, 'Well, [CBS] bought your contract for Daredevil, because they're coming out with The Flash and they don't want the competition. So NBC sold your contract.'"

https://www.ign.com/articles/daredevil-tv-series-90s-cancelled-flash-dc-marvel

That's harsh, but in the long run I think things worked out for the best. The Flash (1990-91) remains my favourite live action interpretation of that character, and Daredevil eventually got an outstanding and definitive TV series of his own twenty-five years later.

[thecolorsblend]

This is interesting. Rex Smith recently spoke about the proposed Daredevil TV series that he and John Rhys-Davies were meant to star in. It's long been known that the 1989 TV movie The Trial of the Incredible Hulk was intended as a backdoor pilot for that show, but the series was never picked up.

Now it's been revealed that one of the reasons CBS passed on Daredevil was because of The Flash. According to Smith:

"It was not just a guest star thing for film. This whole effort was a springboard for a series for the Daredevil. We were so excited, John and I both. He was signed on for the series too, to be my Moriarty for Sherlock Holmes. There'd be other baddies, but the real baddie that always had his hand in it was going to be John.

I hear from my agent. He goes, 'We have a problem.' I go, 'What kind of problem?' He goes, 'Well, [CBS] bought your contract for Daredevil, because they're coming out with The Flash and they don't want the competition. So NBC sold your contract.'"

https://www.ign.com/articles/daredevil-tv-series-90s-cancelled-flash-dc-marvel

That's harsh, but in the long run I think things worked out for the best. The Flash (1990-91) remains my favourite live action interpretation of that character, and Daredevil eventually got an outstanding and definitive TV series of his own twenty-five years later.

Looking at The Flash's relatively paltry ratings, maybe CBS was right to buy out the Daredevil contract. They were obvious competition for each other in that era.

[The Joker]

Well, tough break for John Rhys-Davies for a continued portrayal as Daredevil. Could have been interesting, but it is what it is.

As a "what if", I can't help but wonder which villains from Daredevil's rogues gallery might have made the transition from the comics, to a late 80's-early 90's Daredevil television series? We got the Kingpin making an appearance during Trial of the Incredible Hulk, who was noticeably visually different than the comic book Kingpin. I have to believe similar liberties probably would have been taken with Bullseye.

"If" the Daredevil show was successful, and "if" Elektra became a regular, or made sporadic appearances, it's interesting to think how she would have been interpreted? The thing about Miller wanting the late Gaylyn Gorg does come to mind when thinking about this...

Back to other villains, I can kinda see maybe the Owl, and Gladiator making appearances. Stilt-Man and Jester? Probably not. Unless of course NBC was going to push a much more cartoony/comic booky approach to the Daredevil series (akin to the 1990 Flash show), however by doing that, would be in contrast to what was established with Daredevil during Trial.

For me, I could "imagine" that John Rhys-Davies' Daredevil could co-exist with Bixby/Ferrigno's Banner/Hulk. Even when watching episodes from the TIH Seasons that predated Trial by a number of years. As TIH approach was a bit more grounded than the 1990 Flash series was. Which aimed to be much more stylized vision for the character, in light of Burton's 1989 Batman.

[Silver Nemesis]

As a "what if", I can't help but wonder which villains from Daredevil's rogues gallery might have made the transition from the comics, to a late 80's-early 90's Daredevil television series? We got the Kingpin making an appearance during Trial of the Incredible Hulk, who was noticeably visually different than the comic book Kingpin. I have to believe similar liberties probably would have been taken with Bullseye.

"If" the Daredevil show was successful, and "if" Elektra became a regular, or made sporadic appearances, it's interesting to think how she would have been interpreted? The thing about Miller wanting the late Gaylyn Gorg does come to mind when thinking about this...

Back to other villains, I can kinda see maybe the Owl, and Gladiator making appearances. Stilt-Man and Jester? Probably not. Unless of course NBC was going to push a much more cartoony/comic booky approach to the Daredevil series (akin to the 1990 Flash show), however by doing that, would be in contrast to what was established with Daredevil during Trial.

I'm sure Elektra would have appeared, but I imagine a Bixbyverse version of the character being more akin to Jasmin (played by Elizabeth Gracen, who coincidentally appeared in The Flash that same year) in The Death of the Incredible Hulk (1990).

She probably would have worn a generic black catsuit instead of her classic red outfit, but would still have wielded her sai. Galyn Görg would have been the perfect casting choice back then.

Purple Man could have worked too, though they likely would have taken the Jessica Jones approach of ditching his purple appearance. To see what a nineties TV version of Killgrave might have been like, just watch The X-Files episodes featuring the villain Pusher.

Since Ann Nocenti's run was popular at the time, I imagine the TV show would have taken some cues from her writing. One Nocenti villain that would've suited the show's tone would be Bullet. I can imagine someone like Jonathan Frakes or Richard Moll guest starring in the role.

And how about Martin Kove as Nuke? Like the other villains in the show, he'd have been watered down quite a bit. I can see him being portrayed as a mentally unstable Vietnam vet battling drug addiction and committing random acts of violence in Matt's city. It could be one of those 'very special episodes' that tackles the issue of substance abuse.

A fight scene between Smith's Daredevil and Sensei Kreese would have been epic.

For me, I could "imagine" that John Rhys-Davies' Daredevil could co-exist with Bixby/Ferrigno's Banner/Hulk. Even when watching episodes from the TIH Seasons that predated Trial by a number of years. As TIH approach was a bit more grounded than the 1990 Flash series was. Which aimed to be much more stylized vision for the character, in light of Burton's 1989 Batman.

The Burton-influenced style of The Flash is one of the things I love about it. It came along at just the right time, sandwiched perfectly between B89 and BR. If they'd made it much later it would have risked being as bland and generic as the more recent CW Flash series. You're right that an early nineties Daredevil show wouldn't have had that same style. At best it would have been stylistically similar to Highlander: The Series. It might still have been good though.

Daredevil was a much better fit for the grounded tone of the Hulk TV series than Thor. I've got a soft spot for The Incredible Hulk Returns (1988), but an Asgardian always seemed out of place in that particular version of the Marvel universe. Daredevil didn't. Matt Murdock already had a precursor of sorts in the form of Li Sung, a blind stick-wielding martial arts instructor that Mako portrayed in several episodes of the TV show. Li Sung's first appearance in the second season episode 'Another Path' actually predates the debut of Stick in the comics. I've always thought that if Marvel ever published a Hulk '77 comic they should retcon it so that Li Sung trained Matt, thereby making him that universe's version of Stick.

The Horror Channel here in the UK reran the entire Incredible Hulk series about six or seven years ago, and I was able to catch quite a bit of it. I haven't seen every episode, but I think I've seen most of them, and I don't remember it ever featuring any Hulk villains from the comics. I'm open to correction on that point, but the only major character I recall them adapting was Banner himself. By contrast, The Trial of the Incredible Hulk featured several characters from the Daredevil comics. There was Matt, Fisk and Turk (the scene between Daredevil and Turk was spot on), and some of the supporting players seemed to have been inspired by comic characters too. I suspect Christa Klein and Al Pettiman were at least partly inspired by Karen Page and Willie Lincoln, and the nurse assassin that Fisk sends to kill Ellie Mendez was probably inspired by Lois from Born Again.

I wrote a comic-to-screen analysis of The Trial of the Incredible Hulk a few years ago that I never got around to posting. I'll refrain from going into more detail on that subject now in case I do eventually post it, but I will just say that there's a fair amount of material in the movie that's harvested from the comics.

[Kamdan]

I wrote a comic-to-screen analysis of The Trial of the Incredible Hulk a few years ago that I never got around to posting. I'll refrain from going into more detail on that subject now in case I do eventually post it, but I will just say that there's a fair amount of material in the movie that's harvested from the comics.

Please, by all means share what you came up with! Your latest post really fired up my imagination on what a Daredevil could have been like in the early 90's. Bilson and De Meo would have been ideal showrunners as they filtered the Silver Age era with the Modern Age era with The Flash. I always pictured Daredevil ideal for a 70's and 80's period piece. I was mostly happy with the Netflix series, but always craved for something of that era. The Trial of the Incredible Hulk movie seemed a bit old fashioned when it came out and would have benefited from being influenced by Batman '89 (I know Trial came out a month before it was released) and going for younger casting. Picturing Daredevil in a suit much like the one Affleck wore would have been suitable for this era as well.

[Silver Nemesis]

There's a possible Easter egg in the episode 'Deadly Nightshade' where the original Nightshade knocks Joe Kline out with a tranquiliser dart during a live episode of his TV show. Kline is of course played Richard Belzer, who in real life was choked out by Hulk Hogan during a live TV episode in the mid eighties.

After rendering him unconscious in The Flash, Nightshade turns to the camera and says, "He's just gonna be asleep for a while." After Hogan knocked Belzer out, Mr. T tried to reassure the audience, saying, "He's all right. He's just sleeping." I'd like to think this was a deliberate reference.