THE FLASH (1990) Television Series Discussion

[thecolorsblend]

If it's a choice between an "imperfect red" spandex and the abominable nastiness that is John Wesley Shipp's Flash... well, it's an easy choice.

[Silver Nemesis]

I'm currently rewatching this show and I've been struck by several things. Firstly, just how good it is. And secondly, how certain plot elements influenced later shows like Lois & Clark and Batman: The Animated Series (for example, the first Nightshade episode seems to have influenced 'The Grey Ghost' episode of B:TAS).

It's also interesting to note how the pilot episode references the first Burton Batman film. Shipp's costume has obvious similarities with Keaton's.



Danny Elfman wrote the theme music for both heroes.

They each have a "you made me" conversation between the hero and villain during the finale.

The scene where the lightning bolt strikes in front of the moon to create the Flash logo is clearly influenced by the Batwing scene.



And then in the episode 'Child's Play' Barry walks past a cinema that's showing a double bill of Superman (1978) and Batman (1989). As he walks past the entrance, the music briefly morphs into the Elfman Batman theme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p1SH-fuIzQ#t=04m21s

In spite of this scene, I still like to think of The Flash as taking place in the same universe as Burton's Batman films. I also think Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman takes place in this universe; as evidenced by the numerous references to Batman and Gotham City, as well as the appearance of the Burton Batmobile in the Season 3 episode 'Don't Tug on Superman's Cape'. Between these three franchises, Warner Bros had a pretty good live-action DC universe going in the early 90s. It's a shame they didn't capitalise upon it with a JLA movie.

[Azrael]

I always liked the Flash TV-series, its similarities to the first Burton film were so obvious that even as a kid I caught on them. Mark Hammill as the Trickster was practically the Joker (and he was a pretty lethal villain if I remember right, he was ready to kill with a chainsaw in one episode before the Flash intervenes). However, I never thought of them in "Universe" terms. Maybe it's because I'm pretty Batman-centric when it comes to DC Comics, and I think that the "Batman" concept, at least in live action, "works" better when there are no superpowered characters in the universe he inhabits, maybe only a few fantasy elements here and there, a toxic bath that can give a permanent smile, magic users like Ra's Al Ghul, a little weird science like Manbat, but not a whole "universe" of costumed superpowered characters. Also, Lois & Clark was good (a friend was a big fan of the show, mainly because of Teri Hatcher), but it had the ailment of most 90s hero/action/fantasy shows, it felt very "TV" (including the pretty pedestrian musical score), I don't think it had the "epic" feeling a definitive take on Superman needs.

[Silver Nemesis]

I'm currently rewatching this show and I spotted another Batman reference in the episode 'Child's Play'. Right before the scene where Barry walks his dog past a theatre showing Batman 89, he mentions "the Arkham exposé" to Tina. I never noticed this reference before now.

I also found some cool footage of the tie-in game for the Nintendo Game Boy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_DWv4L6uHk&list=LLhYcvE8tEx4erPWsi_vctnQ

And here's some interesting footage of an unreleased Flash game.

If DC is reluctant to establish their superheroes in individual movies, they could always give them video games like this instead. That could help raise the characters' profiles in time for the JLA film.

[thecolorsblend]

I'm currently rewatching this show and I've been struck by several things. Firstly, just how good it is. And secondly, how certain plot elements influenced later shows like Lois & Clark and Batman: The Animated Series (for example, the first Nightshade episode seems to have influenced 'The Grey Ghost' episode of B:TAS).

I'll go a step further and suggest (the movie posters thing with Barry aside) the Flash TV show, Lois & Clark and Batman Forever/& Robin are (or could be) all part of a shared universe.

[The Laughing Fish]

I loved this show. I think the final episode with the Trickster was the best of the series, which is a shame that they didn't continue for a second season because I heard somewhere Flash's rogue gallery would have joined together and plot their revenge.

Is it just me, or did Trickster's sidekick Prank inspired Paul Dini and Bruce Timm to create Harley Quinn?

[Silver Nemesis]

I'll go a step further and suggest (the movie posters thing with Barry aside) the Flash TV show, Lois & Clark and Batman Forever/& Robin are (or could be) all part of a shared universe.

I agree, although I'd also include the Burton movies in the shared universe. I see strong parallels between The Flash and the first Burton Batman film. Less so with Batman Returns, but definitely with the first film. Batman 89 and The Flash both did a decent job of creating artificial cities using limited resources. Gotham and Central City both seemed real to me. And while one was clearly darker than the other, I still felt they could exist in the same universe.

For instance, the Central City police station has an art deco look that wouldn't appear out of place in Burton's Gotham.

Then there are the wall paintings featured prominently in the TV show. The apartment sets in Batman featured walls dominated with sinister looking murals.

The makers of The Flash included similar murals on many of the show's sets. From this we can see how the show was influenced by the movie's art direction and production design.

Then there's the overall tone of Batman 89 and The Flash. Both were mostly serious, realistic portrayals of their respective source materials, interspersed with occasional moments of humour and fancy. They both struck a good balance between realism and fantasy without going too far in either direction. Batman was clearly darker, but then Gotham was meant to be an exceptionally corrupt and crime ridden city. Central City in The Flash is a safer place with a more West Coast vibe to it; a San Francisco to Gotham's New York. But both, in my opinion, could easily exist within the same universe.

Then there's the fact that Danny Elfman wrote the themes for both Batman 89 and The Flash, with Shirley Walker also contributing significantly to both projects. And I believe John Wesley Shipp's costume was constructed by the same team who made Keaton's batsuit. There's an obvious visual likeness between the two.

When it comes to Lois and Clark, I see parallels relating to Batman Returns more than the 89 film. While the Gotham in Batman 89 was fairly convincing, the Gotham in the second film is clearly a mixture of sets and matte paintings. It doesn't feel realistic, but manages to exploit its artifice to stylised effect. Likewise, the Metropolis in Lois and Clark is stylised rather than realistic. It has a slight advantage over Burton's Gotham in that the show makers used location footage of Chicago to make it appear larger during the flying scenes. But most of the time you can tell the show was filmed on a studio lot. But while Burton's Gotham was dark, cold and filled with weeping statues, L&C's Metropolis was bright, sunny and filled with trees and parks. The two cities represent the two extremes; dystopia and utopia, yin and yang, one a negative imprint of the other and vice versa. But what they have in common is a contained, artificial and stylised aesthetic.

Another similarity lies in the unusual casting choices for the main hero. For the athletic, muscular 6'2, 210lb Batman, Burton cast the average looking 5'9, 175lb Keaton. And yet it worked. Keaton delivered a subtle and nuanced performance which, with regards to Warner Bros live action film series, has arguably yet to be surpassed. Likewise, Dean Cain was a slightly unusual choice for Superman. On the one hand, he did have the athletic muscular physique of the Superman from the comics (he was a former NFL player). But his facial features were a departure from what most people had grown to expect. Instead of Superman's blue eyes and chiselled, angular features, Cain had brown eyes, roundish features and dark skin tone. At 6'0, he was also slightly shorter than the other Superman actors. But that just made him better suited to team up with Keaton. Burton's Batman would have been dwarfed by the 6'4 Chris Reeve. But standing next to Cain, he wouldn't have looked so small.

I can also easily imagine John Shea's Lex Luthor interacting with the villains from Burton's Batman films. The first season Lex – the suave, powerful billionaire manipulating events from his ivory tower – could be a business rival of Max Shreck.

While the second season Lex – the bloodthirsty psychopath operating from his hidden subterranean lair – could be a potential ally for the Penguin.

But the biggest hint of a shared universe comes from the fact that Batman and Gotham City definitely do exist within the Lois and Clark universe. They're mentioned numerous times throughout the series. And while Batman himself never appears on screen, we do see his Batmobile in the season 3 episode 'Don't Tug on Superman's Cape'. And it's none other than the Furst Batmobile from the Tim Burton films.

Cain's Superman also strikes a brooding pose similar to the classic Batman 89 finale in the season 3 episode 'Double Jeopardy'.

As far as connections between The Flash and Lois and Clark go, S.T.A.R. Labs featured prominently in both shows and Barry mentions Lois Lane in the episode 'Captain Cold'. Also I'm pretty sure The Flash and Lois and Clark were filmed on the same studio lot. Check out the building behind the Flash in this shot. Isn't that the Daily Planet building?

And of course they both have that stylish nineties TV show atmosphere. I've also noticed certain plotlines from The Flash were reused in the first season of Lois and Clark. The L&C episode 'The Foundling' has a lot in common with The Flash episode 'Child's Play', while 'Vatman' is really similar to 'Twin Streaks'.

Of course Schumacher's Batman could also fit in with The Flash and Lois and Clark. Superman and Metropolis are both mentioned in his films. And in some episodes of The Flash Central City looks a bit like Schumacher's Gotham on account of the colourful lighting. But in other episodes it looks dark and gloomy like Burton's Gotham. The tone of the villains also varies from episode to episode. Some of them are goofy and wouldn't seem out of place in a Schumacher movies (e.g. the hippy drug dealers from 'Child's Play' or Hamill's Trickster), but I think most of the villains were darker and more grounded than that. Certainly if you compare the TV version of Captain Cold against Schumacher's Mr Freeze, it's obvious that one of them is a lot darker and more threatening than the other. All in all, I'd say Captain Cold was closer to what Burton's Mr Freeze might have been like than Schumacher's. Similarly I think other Flash villains like Pike, Mirror Master and Deadly Nightshade would fit in better with Burton's vision than his successor's.

I'd say the same thing about Lois and Clark. The first two seasons had a lot of humour in the form of witty repartee and eccentric supporting characters, but the overall result was very faithful to the comics and felt reasonably grounded and dramatic. By contrast, the later seasons – particularly season 4 – veered into high camp and ditched the classic comic rogues of the first two seasons in favour of some really absurd original villains. Seasons one and two would gel better with Burton's Batman, while seasons three and four would work better with Schumacher's. At least that's my perspective on the matter.

Come to think of it, The Flash is sort of like the tonal middle ground between Batman 89 and Batman Forever. It's darker and more serious than Schumacher's film, but not as dark or violent as Burton's. It's a neat compromise between the two.

[Avilos]

Great posts. I LOVED The Flash.

When Lois & Clark was airing I thought, or wanted it to be in the same universe as the Batman movies and the Flash series. This was even before the show had references to Batman. I even had a little timeline made up years ago.

I always always ignored the years mentioned in the Flash. With its Superman references Superman had to have appeared before him. Considering hybrid styles of different time periods it works. But even more so the actual comics are always ingoring time references to fit things in a shared continuity, so why not adaptations too. I figured considering L&C was on longer to shift The Flash a few years later. Also the internet was used a lot on that show before it was as widely known about.

The Flash and Lois & Clark were both shot at Warner Bros Studios in Burbank. In almost every episode you can see parts of the backlot used in both shows. Also some parts of Batman Returns, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin were shot on the same backlot. I took the tour in 2001 and I recognized everything. Its very cool because unlike Universal you are allowed to get of the tour trams. I got a picture in front of the location of the Daily Planet. The Central Police Station is still there but for ER they added a L train track in front of it to look like Chicago. The cool thing is that was when L&C was on. The effects team added a train on it in a background shot in a L&C episode. Which really impressed the people on ER because back than a drama like that had no cgi effects at all. They built the tracks just as something for their characters to walk under.

[Bobthegoon89]

I'll go a step further and suggest (the movie posters thing with Barry aside) the Flash TV show, Lois & Clark and Batman Forever/& Robin are (or could be) all part of a shared universe.

I agree, although I'd also include the Burton movies in the shared universe. I see strong parallels between The Flash and the first Burton Batman film. Less so with Batman Returns, but definitely with the first film. Batman 89 and The Flash both did a decent job of creating artificial cities using limited resources. Gotham and Central City both seemed real to me. And while one was clearly darker than the other, I still felt they could exist in the same universe.

For instance, the Central City police station has an art deco look that wouldn't appear out of place in Burton's Gotham.

Then there are the wall paintings featured prominently in the TV show. The apartment sets in Batman featured walls dominated with sinister looking murals.

The makers of The Flash included similar murals on many of the show's sets. From this we can see how the show was influenced by the movie's art direction and production design.

Then there's the overall tone of Batman 89 and The Flash. Both were mostly serious, realistic portrayals of their respective source materials, interspersed with occasional moments of humour and fancy. They both struck a good balance between realism and fantasy without going too far in either direction. Batman was clearly darker, but then Gotham was meant to be an exceptionally corrupt and crime ridden city. Central City in The Flash is a safer place with a more West Coast vibe to it; a San Francisco to Gotham's New York. But both, in my opinion, could easily exist within the same universe.

Then there's the fact that Danny Elfman wrote the themes for both Batman 89 and The Flash, with Shirley Walker also contributing significantly to both projects. And I believe John Wesley Shipp's costume was constructed by the same team who made Keaton's batsuit. There's an obvious visual likeness between the two.

When it comes to Lois and Clark, I see parallels relating to Batman Returns more than the 89 film. While the Gotham in Batman 89 was fairly convincing, the Gotham in the second film is clearly a mixture of sets and matte paintings. It doesn't feel realistic, but manages to exploit its artifice to stylised effect. Likewise, the Metropolis in Lois and Clark is stylised rather than realistic. It has a slight advantage over Burton's Gotham in that the show makers used location footage of Chicago to make it appear larger during the flying scenes. But most of the time you can tell the show was filmed on a studio lot. But while Burton's Gotham was dark, cold and filled with weeping statues, L&C's Metropolis was bright, sunny and filled with trees and parks. The two cities represent the two extremes; dystopia and utopia, yin and yang, one a negative imprint of the other and vice versa. But what they have in common is a contained, artificial and stylised aesthetic.

Another similarity lies in the unusual casting choices for the main hero. For the athletic, muscular 6'2, 210lb Batman, Burton cast the average looking 5'9, 175lb Keaton. And yet it worked. Keaton delivered a subtle and nuanced performance which, with regards to Warner Bros live action film series, has arguably yet to be surpassed. Likewise, Dean Cain was a slightly unusual choice for Superman. On the one hand, he did have the athletic muscular physique of the Superman from the comics (he was a former NFL player). But his facial features were a departure from what most people had grown to expect. Instead of Superman's blue eyes and chiselled, angular features, Cain had brown eyes, roundish features and dark skin tone. At 6'0, he was also slightly shorter than the other Superman actors. But that just made him better suited to team up with Keaton. Burton's Batman would have been dwarfed by the 6'4 Chris Reeve. But standing next to Cain, he wouldn't have looked so small.

I can also easily imagine John Shea's Lex Luthor interacting with the villains from Burton's Batman films. The first season Lex – the suave, powerful billionaire manipulating events from his ivory tower – could be a business rival of Max Shreck.

While the second season Lex – the bloodthirsty psychopath operating from his hidden subterranean lair – could be a potential ally for the Penguin.

But the biggest hint of a shared universe comes from the fact that Batman and Gotham City definitely do exist within the Lois and Clark universe. They're mentioned numerous times throughout the series. And while Batman himself never appears on screen, we do see his Batmobile in the season 3 episode 'Don't Tug on Superman's Cape'. And it's none other than the Furst Batmobile from the Tim Burton films.

Cain's Superman also strikes a brooding pose similar to the classic Batman 89 finale in the season 3 episode 'Double Jeopardy'.

As far as connections between The Flash and Lois and Clark go, S.T.A.R. Labs featured prominently in both shows and Barry mentions Lois Lane in the episode 'Captain Cold'. Also I'm pretty sure The Flash and Lois and Clark were filmed on the same studio lot. Check out the building behind the Flash in this shot. Isn't that the Daily Planet building?

And of course they both have that stylish nineties TV show atmosphere. I've also noticed certain plotlines from The Flash were reused in the first season of Lois and Clark. The L&C episode 'The Foundling' has a lot in common with The Flash episode 'Child's Play', while 'Vatman' is really similar to 'Twin Streaks'.

Of course Schumacher's Batman could also fit in with The Flash and Lois and Clark. Superman and Metropolis are both mentioned in his films. And in some episodes of The Flash Central City looks a bit like Schumacher's Gotham on account of the colourful lighting. But in other episodes it looks dark and gloomy like Burton's Gotham. The tone of the villains also varies from episode to episode. Some of them are goofy and wouldn't seem out of place in a Schumacher movies (e.g. the hippy drug dealers from 'Child's Play' or Hamill's Trickster), but I think most of the villains were darker and more grounded than that. Certainly if you compare the TV version of Captain Cold against Schumacher's Mr Freeze, it's obvious that one of them is a lot darker and more threatening than the other. All in all, I'd say Captain Cold was closer to what Burton's Mr Freeze might have been like than Schumacher's. Similarly I think other Flash villains like Pike, Mirror Master and Deadly Nightshade would fit in better with Burton's vision than his successor's.

I'd say the same thing about Lois and Clark. The first two seasons had a lot of humour in the form of witty repartee and eccentric supporting characters, but the overall result was very faithful to the comics and felt reasonably grounded and dramatic. By contrast, the later seasons – particularly season 4 – veered into high camp and ditched the classic comic rogues of the first two seasons in favour of some really absurd original villains. Seasons one and two would gel better with Burton's Batman, while seasons three and four would work better with Schumacher's. At least that's my perspective on the matter.

Come to think of it, The Flash is sort of like the tonal middle ground between Batman 89 and Batman Forever. It's darker and more serious than Schumacher's film, but not as dark or violent as Burton's. It's a neat compromise between the two.

I cannot believe the Keaton Batmobile appeared in Lois and Clark. Why was it there? Was it merely for a purpose of a joke? As a kid back in the nineties I must say I hated, HATED, Lois and Clark. It was always a "poor mans Christopher Reeve Superman" to me even at a young age. I've now come to accept it and enjoy the first two seasons very much. Part of the reason I disliked is that more or less every superhero tv show (with the exception of Adam West's Batman) tends to focus primarily on the alter-ego. The Hulk tv show. The old Spider-Man show. Smallville e.c.t That kind of thing drove me crazy. I think it's better to balance it out (as comics and movies do). I always felt it was short changing the audience at keeping the uniqueness of the characters bottled up in a drama show. Thank goodness the tv Batman people never gave a damn about Bruce Wayne and wanted wacky comic book action in bat bucketloads lol

I have to say as a fan I prefer to imagine the Reeve Superman movies in the same universe as Keaton's Batman. Yes I know their polar opposites but to me so are the comics themselves (even Batman Returns "dark fairytale" style opening prologue is an utter world away from the gritty urban city opening of the original Batman). It's just too much fun imagining Keaton's Bruce Wayne out there completing his training and perhaps hearing about all that Superman vs General Zod action going down in Metropolis somewhere. For me it makes the movie universes of both series larger and more epic and fun.

That's another aspect of reboots I despise. Having had The Avengers just what version of Spider-Man (and other Marvel characters) exists in this Marvel movie-verse of combined characters? Tobey Maguire or Andrew Garfield? I'm firmly a Maguire fan but because of that dreadfully useless reboot the smart money now would be to say Garfield. Christ does that spoil all the fun imagining! lol And bizaarely then you have the X-Men who have yet to suffer the movie reboot (and jesus you know it is coming one day folks!). There still in the same universe they kick started back in 2000. Are they not survivors of a Marvel movie-verse "Crisis on Infinite Earths" event? Now there's a movie for you!

[thecolorsblend]

I cannot believe the Keaton Batmobile appeared in Lois and Clark. Why was it there? Was it merely for a purpose of a joke?

The episode featured an eccentric rich couple who collected unspeakably rare things. The Batmobile is simply there. It is not commented upon. It's just a prop intended to illustrate the crazy stuff the villains were able to get their hands on.

As a kid back in the nineties I must say I hated, HATED, Lois and Clark. It was always a "poor mans Christopher Reeve Superman" to me even at a young age. I've now come to accept it and enjoy the first two seasons very much. Part of the reason I disliked is that more or less every superhero tv show (with the exception of Adam West's Batman) tends to focus primarily on the alter-ego. The Hulk tv show. The old Spider-Man show. Smallville e.c.t That kind of thing drove me crazy. I think it's better to balance it out (as comics and movies do). I always felt it was short changing the audience at keeping the uniqueness of the characters bottled up in a drama show. Thank goodness the tv Batman people never gave a damn about Bruce Wayne and wanted wacky comic book action in bat bucketloads lol

Nature of the beast. TV, by virtue of budget and time constraints, does personal and intimate naturally. They tend to go to the nines with character development because they have the screen time to do it and usually not a sufficient enough budget or time (per episode) to do huge action sequences.

Due to the expanded time and budget, features tend to do big, wild spectacles. That can and often does come at the expense of characterization though because films have 2 or 2.5 hours (if they're lucky) to make their point.

It's for these reasons that I always scratch my head when people complain that a TV show episode wasn't "big and epic" enough or an action film didn't have the textured, nuanced characters they claim they would prefer.

Anyway. So on that basis, L&C largely succeeded at being an investigative drama for TV which largely kept Clark, Lois and their courtship at the center of all the stories. As far as characterization is concerned, I'd put it up against anything in terms of consistency. You may not like the show but you can't argue that their version of Lois and Clark weren't absurdly well-written characters.