Interview with screenwriter Jonathan Gems

[KeatonisBatman]

Thank you the Joker, DocLathropBrown and Silver Nem... glad you enjoyed it! Talking to Jonathan was a real treat. He's got that hilariously dry sense of (very English) humour.

This is another terrific interview, KeatonisBatman. I had no idea about Gems' involvement in Batman '89 until now. It's fascinating to hear another perspective on the film's development, especially since many of his statements are at odds with the established narrative we've grown accustomed to hearing. I thoroughly enjoy this sort of candid long-form interview.

That's it! I hadn't seen many interviews at all with Jonathan and I knew he had a history with Tim, so I really wanted to dig in and get as much out of him as possible. He was gracious enough to tell me everything he could remember, and he only paused a few times to say, "I probably shouldn't say that." So God knows what he was holding back. 

[BatmanFurst]

There was a YouTube video of Burton being interviewed in which he confirmed this theory, but unfortunately the interview in question has been taken down. Burton stated that Vicki already knew Bruce was Batman before she went to Wayne Manor, having figured it out during the scene where Knox shows her the newspaper detailing the Wayne murders.

I saw that video. It's a shame it's no longer around. But what he said in that video about leaving things implied and vague falls in line with the storytelling of the film. There are multiple points in the movie where it hints at what's about to happen rather than showing you. "Get me Lt. Eckhart" and "Alfred, let's go shopping" are both examples of this.

I guess the opponents of that point of view would then argue, okay but why does Bruce chastise Alfred for "letting Vicki Vale into the Batcave" in Batman Returns? 

Because Returns was written by somebody that hated the original film.

The more I hear about the evolution of the Batman '89 script, the more I realise how important the other writers were. Hamm gets most of the credit, and indeed he did compose the basic structure of the first two acts, but it sounds like many of the best elements came from other writers. How many people altogether worked on the Batman '89 screenplay? Sam Hamm, Jonathan Gems, Charles McKeown, Warren Skaaren and even Jack Nicholson by the sound of it.

It really is a miracle that this movie wasn't a complete disaster. Making a big movie is no easy task, but trying to shoot one in the middle of a writers strike usually leads to ruin. We've seen this with X-Men Origins Wolverine and Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. It really is a credit to the credited writers, the uncredited writers, the cast, Burton, and even Jon Peter's (to a certain extent) that it turned out as well as it did.

It's also interesting to hear that Skarren was brought in after the strike had ended. So now I'm curious as to why Skarren was brought in instead of getting Sam Hamm back.

I'm also curious to know who came up with the Bob character. He's not in Hamm's original draft. Whoever invented the idea of Joker killing him like he does in the film really understood the Joker character.

Thank you for the interview, and posting this.

Very fascinating read! With the whole Tim Burton/Jon Peters deal, my takeaway is that it makes Tim come across as enduring to some extent, as apparently Tim had to deal with Jon Peters who clearly wanted to throw his weight around during the production. With Tim being sympathetic towards random crew, whom clearly at that time were emotional about having just been fired, and taking it upon himself to rehire them on the spot.

As a director, and it's fair to say newcomer at that, with more than enough on his plate to deal with, having to deal with Peters' backlashes on staff must have been quietly frustrating.

Peters is definitely a character. As he came across as cartoonishly boastful in the "Superman Lives" documentary, and I remember the portrayal of Jon Peters in Paul Thomas Anderson's "Licorice Pizza" wasn't exactly flattering either.

It's interesting to me that Peters gave Burton all of this grief on Batman, and yet he was willing to work with him again on Superman. I wonder if they had made up in the intervening years.

I know Peter/Gubers names are on Batman Returns, but they clearly didn't have much involvement with it. I'd always assumed that was at Burton's request, but I have nothing to back that up.

[KeatonisBatman]

Part 3 is now up! 

https://brandonkeaton.substack.com/p/holy-flaming-cows-batman-with-jonathan-c74