The production troubles of the Shumacher Era

[eledoremassis02]

The issues with Val Kilmer and Joel Schumacher were pretty well known but I've been reading things that don't put Shumacher in a good light. Eitor Paul Hirschmann (in his book A Long Time Ago in a Cutting Room Far, Far Away) mentioned that Schumacher was rather inappropriate with crew during Falling Down and even publicly embarrassed him after mentioned a shot was out of focus.

Now, Bob Ringwood has brought some more issues to light, even a case of physical abuse. Its also interesting to note that the Ice Suits were not Ringwood aprooved and thats what caused him to remove his name from the film.





These were taken from this reddit (Ringwood also talks about the Burton Films) as posted from the Batman Online Facebook page

https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbookmovies/comments/17vi0a9/bob_ringwood_talking_about_making_suits_for/?rdt=41550&onetap_auto=true&show_am=true

[thecolorsblend]

He physically attacked Bob Ringwood. Dang. I mean, I guess I can understand that tensions can run high on a film set. Esp a franchise. Esp a franchise that you've been tasked to bring back into the limelight.

But still, that kind of behavior is impossible to defend. I can actually buy that Ringwood didn't sue for fear that his career would be nuked.

Still, he answered a question I'd always had. Namely, why were the Ice Suits clearly repaints of the existing suits? It's a snap to figure out why the decision was made. Toyetic. But still, why not go the whole nine yards and design new Ice Suits?

Well, the fact that the work was done independently of his involvement with the film goes a long way toward explaining that.

Anyway, I always had a soft spot for Schumacher on a personal basis. But maybe that affection was misplaced?

[The Joker]

Pretty crazy stuff.

I never took Joel Schumacher as a physically combative type, but of course we're only just on the outside looking in...

[The Dark Knight]

The issues with Val Kilmer and Joel Schumacher were pretty well known but I've been reading things that don't put Shumacher in a good light. Eitor Paul Hirschmann (in his book A Long Time Ago in a Cutting Room Far, Far Away) mentioned that Schumacher was rather inappropriate with crew during Falling Down and even publicly embarrassed him after mentioned a shot was out of focus.

Now, Bob Ringwood has brought some more issues to light, even a case of physical abuse. Its also interesting to note that the Ice Suits were not Ringwood aprooved and thats what caused him to remove his name from the film.





These were taken from this reddit (Ringwood also talks about the Burton Films) as posted from the Batman Online Facebook page

https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbookmovies/comments/17vi0a9/bob_ringwood_talking_about_making_suits_for/?rdt=41550&onetap_auto=true&show_am=true

Bombshell comments in all honesty. I'm hardly a Joel Schumacher historian but he didn't strike me (ha) as someone physically abusive or quick to anger. I'm sceptical of allegations in general but the ice suits tidbit gives credence to the rest. In such a scenario though it would've been highly interesting if Bob fought back or brought legal action. There would've been one of two outcomes: Joel reprimanded to some degree or Bob's career put on ice. And remember, this is happening in a time period of the mid 90s.

[Silver Nemesis]

I never took Joel Schumacher as a physically combative type, but of course we're only just on the outside looking in...

It is hard to imagine Schumacher beating someone up. His reputation doesn't paint the picture of an aggressive man. Still, if Ringwood's claim is true, and Joel was physically abusive towards his colleagues, then that might explain why Val Kilmer reportedly slammed him into a wall. The way that story's been recorded makes Val sound like the aggressor, but perhaps he was defending himself.

As for Ringwood's claim that Burton was a 'nightmare' and a 'cokehead'...

...yeah, I can buy that.

[The Laughing Fish]

The issues with Val Kilmer and Joel Schumacher were pretty well known but I've been reading things that don't put Shumacher in a good light. Eitor Paul Hirschmann (in his book A Long Time Ago in a Cutting Room Far, Far Away) mentioned that Schumacher was rather inappropriate with crew during Falling Down and even publicly embarrassed him after mentioned a shot was out of focus.

Now, Bob Ringwood has brought some more issues to light, even a case of physical abuse. Its also interesting to note that the Ice Suits were not Ringwood approved and thats what caused him to remove his name from the film.

Thanks for sharing.

This isn't the first time that Bob Ringwood expressed his contempt for somebody he worked with on the set of Batman. He called Kim Basinger a "horrible woman" whenever she was on the set of B89 and expressed his disgust by her behaviour. The Facebook link to his quote isn't working anymore, however, and he never gave any specific examples of what Basinger did either. But if Ringwood is telling the truth, my guess is Basinger may have been a total diva and felt untouchable as she was in a relationship with the producer Jon Peters at the time. Another explanation could be she suffers from agoraphobia, thus making her behaviour much more irrational than she had intended. Who knows?

https://moviechat.org/tt0096895/Batman/58c74efa6b51e905f675e80b/Bob-Ringwood-hated-working-with-Kim-Basinger

Going back to the book you mentioned, I read it was published in November 2019, which was seven months before Schumacher died from cancer. It's more than likely that Schumacher was never made aware of these serious allegations because of his illness. It would've been interesting to see how he would've reacted if he found out Ringwood had accused him of assault.

I'd like to know what Schumacher did behind the scenes of Falling Down that was so inappropriate. Mentioning that he called somebody out for shooting something out of focus doesn't seem too bad out of context, but for all we know, Schumacher could've been a bully. He certainly sounds like one judging by what he allegedly did to Ringwood. Maybe that explains the apparent hostile working environment that Forever might've had, from the Kilmer disputes to Jones and Carrey not getting along. If the director had his own personality problems and couldn't keep everyone in check then perhaps that bad influence is bound to affect everyone. Once again, who knows?

The more I read into the sordid details about what goes on in Hollywood - not only for the last ten years but also for many decades - the more I'm inclined to believe anything is possible. While I'm not inclined to take Ringwood's word for it, I'm not going to call him a liar either.

As much as I enjoy watching stuff, that place is not somewhere I would want to work or live in. Hell no.

[eledoremassis02]

The issues with Val Kilmer and Joel Schumacher were pretty well known but I've been reading things that don't put Shumacher in a good light. Eitor Paul Hirschmann (in his book A Long Time Ago in a Cutting Room Far, Far Away) mentioned that Schumacher was rather inappropriate with crew during Falling Down and even publicly embarrassed him after mentioned a shot was out of focus.

Now, Bob Ringwood has brought some more issues to light, even a case of physical abuse. Its also interesting to note that the Ice Suits were not Ringwood approved and thats what caused him to remove his name from the film.

Thanks for sharing.

This isn't the first time that Bob Ringwood expressed his contempt for somebody he worked with on the set of Batman. He called Kim Basinger a "horrible woman" whenever she was on the set of B89 and expressed his disgust by her behaviour. The Facebook link to his quote isn't working anymore, however, and he never gave any specific examples of what Basinger did either. But if Ringwood is telling the truth, my guess is Basinger may have been a total diva and felt untouchable as she was in a relationship with the producer Jon Peters at the time. Another explanation could be she suffers from agoraphobia, thus making her behaviour much more irrational than she had intended. Who knows?

https://moviechat.org/tt0096895/Batman/58c74efa6b51e905f675e80b/Bob-Ringwood-hated-working-with-Kim-Basinger

Going back to the book you mentioned, I read it was published in November 2019, which was seven months before Schumacher died from cancer. It's more than likely that Schumacher was never made aware of these serious allegations because of his illness. It would've been interesting to see how he would've reacted if he found out Ringwood had accused him of assault.

I'd like to know what Schumacher did behind the scenes of Falling Down that was so inappropriate. Mentioning that he called somebody out for shooting something out of focus doesn't seem too bad out of context, but for all we know, Schumacher could've been a bully. He certainly sounds like one judging by what he allegedly did to Ringwood. Maybe that explains the apparent hostile working environment that Forever might've had, from the Kilmer disputes to Jones and Carrey not getting along. If the director had his own personality problems and couldn't keep everyone in check then perhaps that bad influence is bound to affect everyone. Once again, who knows?

The more I read into the sordid details about what goes on in Hollywood - not only for the last ten years but also for many decades - the more I'm inclined to believe anything is possible. While I'm not inclined to take Ringwood's word for it, I'm not going to call him a liar either.

As much as I enjoy watching stuff, that place is not somewhere I would want to work or live in. Hell no.

The book is a very interesting read but here are some snippets related to Joel:
He once said to me at dailies, in front of about twenty members of the crew, "I had a dream about you last night, Paul. I woke up with an erection." Not knowing how else to respond, I simply said, "Thank you.""
------
My job is to catch all the mistakes and make everyone look good, from the focus puller to the hairdresser to the director. If I catch an error and there's no way to fix it in the cutting, I call it to the attention of the director, who can decide how he wants to approach fixing it...Joel didn't want to hear about any mistakes. Rather than trust that the comments I made were in the spirit of trying to make the best possible movie, he would take every comment as an attack, a criticism of him. "Why does

everything have to be so heavy with you?" he would ask. (This very much sounds what made Keaton walk away from Batman)
---------

After a while, if something had gone wrong on the film that Joel needed to know about, there would be a discussion about who would be the one to break the news to him. Nobody wanted the job. Not that they were afraid of being fired, but Joel had a way of haranguing you that was really unpleasant. No one wanted to be the target of his razor-sharp wit and acid tongue. He had a black belt in verbal combat.

On the very last day of principal photography, Joel filmed a key scene in the picture...The shot lasts a couple of minutes. Joel shot and printed four takes, which was a lot for him,
and every one of them was out of focus.

Joel wasn't at dailies that day, however. Aaron Spelling had asked him to shoot six episodes of a new series called 2000 Malibu Road, and Joel was scouting locations out at the beach.

"Well," I said to Andrzej, who was there, "what do you think? It looks like it's out of focus to me."

"Yes," he said, "we blew it that time."

I called the line producer and told him about the problem. Joel was to screen the dailies later. I thought no more about it.

The next time I saw Joel was when I presented my cut to him. The lights came on. I waited to hear his reaction. Nothing. Something like "Well done!" would have been appreciated.

There was a long silence. Finally, Joel spoke. "Was that shot of Michael out of focus?" he asked.

I knew of course which shot he meant. "Yes, Joel, it is," I replied. Another pause.

"Why didn't you tell me it was out of focus?"

I was confused, "I thought you would be able to see for yourself that it was."

"I never saw these dailies," he said.

"I didn't know that, Joel." Not a word yet about the cut.

"I only saw these dailies on tape," he said.

Whose fault is that? 1 wondered. He had been busy shooting what he called a "glam-trash" soap opera for TV and hadn't taken the time to screen the last day's shooting of our movie on a big screen in a proper screening room.

"You should have told me," he continued.

"I told the line producer, and Andrzej knew too," I replied, tiring a bit of the way this was going.

"Do you mean to tell me," he asked in deliberately exaggerated tones, "that the editor, the cinematographer, and the line producer all knew this shot was out of focus, and not one of you told me?"

I was tired of this game. "OK, Joel, fine. You want to blame me? I'll take the responsibility for it. It's my fault the shot is out of focus." This was absurd, of course. Focus is the camera department's responsibility. "Is that what you want to hear?" I asked.

Joel was a great enthusiast of a game called NIGYYSOB, an acronym for "Now I've got you, you son of a bitch!" Also known as "Gotcha!" He wasn't about to let this go. "Why did no one tell me?" he persisted.

"Well, Joel, you're not going to like what I'm about to say, but the truth is, you make life so hard for people when they point out a problem to you that no one wants to be the bearer of bad news,"

Long pause. "I reject that," he said. "I don't believe that I am such a frightening person that people working around me are so afraid of me that they can't carry out their professional responsibilities."

"It's not that they're afraid, Joel, it's more like, well, life is too short."

Really long pause. "Well, if that's the case, I will have to do something about it."

The shot remains out of focus.
"

[The Laughing Fish]

The book is a very interesting read but here are some snippets related to Joel:
He once said to me at dailies, in front of about twenty members of the crew, "I had a dream about you last night, Paul. I woke up with an erection." Not knowing how else to respond, I simply said, "Thank you.""

On top of physical assault allegations, Schumacher is accused of sexual harassment too. If he said that to somebody, it's very possible he said it to somebody else, and maybe worse. It's certainly a very bad look.

I think you're right to suggest that Schumacher's reputation of being very difficult to work with is perhaps the real reason why Keaton turned Forever down and quit Batman altogether. I must admit that I'm questioning Burton if he helped Schumacher become his successor as the director for the franchise. If these allegations are true, and Burton was aware of them, it's not exactly painting a good light on him either.

Schumacher was a very busy director throughout the Eighties and Nineties. I think he directed nine films just in the Nineties alone. It's possible nobody was daring to speak out against him because he was quite prominent at the time. He might not have necessarily been held in high regard, but he was very much in demand with the studios. I guess the reason why nobody spoke out about him sooner goes to show how much time has changed between the Nineties and right now. In the era of #MeToo and social media, abusive directors and producers are in danger of being exposed more than ever.

Thanks for sharing the extra bit of info regarding Falling Down, much appreciated.

[eledoremassis02]

The book is a very interesting read but here are some snippets related to Joel:
He once said to me at dailies, in front of about twenty members of the crew, "I had a dream about you last night, Paul. I woke up with an erection." Not knowing how else to respond, I simply said, "Thank you.""

On top of physical assault allegations, Schumacher is accused of sexual harassment too. If he said that to somebody, it's very possible he said it to somebody else, and maybe worse. It's certainly a very bad look.

I think you're right to suggest that Schumacher's reputation of being very difficult to work with is perhaps the real reason why Keaton turned Forever down and quit Batman altogether. I must admit that I'm questioning Burton if he helped Schumacher become his successor as the director for the franchise. If these allegations are true, and Burton was aware of them, it's not exactly painting a good light on him either.

Schumacher was a very busy director throughout the Eighties and Nineties. I think he directed nine films just in the Nineties alone. It's possible nobody was daring to speak out against him because he was quite prominent at the time. He might not have necessarily been held in high regard, but he was very much in demand with the studios. I guess the reason why nobody spoke out about him sooner goes to show how much time has changed between the Nineties and right now. In the era of #MeToo and social media, abusive directors and producers are in danger of being exposed more than ever.

Thanks for sharing the extra bit of info regarding Falling Down, much appreciated.

The book does state that people may have reacted differently in the Metoo era but pretty much everyone just tossed it as "Joel being Joel".

[The Laughing Fish]

The book does state that people may have reacted differently in the Metoo era but pretty much everyone just tossed it as "Joel being Joel".

Not so surprising to see the reaction surrounding Schumacher's alleged behaviour was just a shrug and nothing else. That town has a history of enabling creeps and predators, whether it's Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Harvey Weinstein or Danny Masterson.

On one hand, I can see people - whether they're actors or those working behind the scenes - were afraid to become whistleblowers. I've been reviewing the Weinstein saga over the last few days, and I learned he had allegedly threatened to kill his employees and even hired people to intimidate Ronan Farrow and Rose McGowan, in an attempt to stop them from exposing him. When you face scumbags like that, it's understandable why many are fearful for their lives, never mind their careers.

On the other hand, it doesn't change the fact that nearly every actor we know - and we like - is complicit in being part of this corrupt industry.

#MeToo may have faced criticisms in handling the message of believing all victims without evidence. But for its faults and areas it could improve in its messaging, I reckon the movement is still necessary to expose the predators out there and give victims a voice. It's not perfect, but it's a start.