The Conjuring Universe

[Silver Nemesis]

This thread is for discussion relating to The Conjuring Universe created by James Wan. So far this franchise consists of the following movies, presented here in chronological order:

The Nun 2 comes out later this year, and The Conjuring 4 – titled The Conjuring: Last Rites – is in production. Warner Bros also recently announced a new HBO Max TV show set in The Conjuring Universe: https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-conjuring-tv-series-hbo-max-1235580586/

There aren't many details yet, but I'm hoping for a Tales from the Crypt style anthology series focusing on some of the more obscure cases the Warrens investigated.

We might as well use this thread to discuss the Insidious films too, since that's a related franchise. Continuing a discussion we started in The Exorcist thread...

re: Insidious

Very enjoyable film. I've got another horror franchise to follow now. I definitely understand what SN means by referring to Insidious as a warm up for The Conjuring.

Here's hoping the sequels can measure up.

So far, I think I like the storyline and the characters of The Conjuring better. But at the same, Insidious has creepier and more atmospheric visuals. So, I guess it's kind of a wash.

Both franchise are definitely worth checking out for those of you who haven't done so already. In a thread ostensibly dedicated to The Exorcist, if you enjoy that film, then Insidious and The Conjuring should be in your wheelhouse.

https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=4189.0

The first Insidious film is very, very creepy. I've seen it multiple times, and there are certain scenes that still scare me on repeated viewings. Not the jump scares, but the more subtle moments. Like the bit with the baby monitor, or the bit where Patrick Wilson's character goes downstairs in the middle of the night to switch off the alarm and finds the front door wide open. The most frightening moment of all though has to be the scene where Barbara Hershey's character recounts the story about the old woman in the photographs. That always reminds me of M. R. James's short story 'The Mezzotint' (1904), which concerns a picture haunted by a ghost that gradually moves closer to its victim inside the image when no one's looking at it.

I assume Hershey was cast as the grandmother because of her role in Sidney J. Furie's The Entity (1982), which is one of the many classic horror films that influenced Insidious.

And while we're on that subject, isn't the plot of Insidious rather familiar?

The suburban home of a middle-class American family is disturbed by a series of ghostly happenings. The activity is centred around one of the children, who is soon spirited away by a supernatural force. The family try to recover their child, and in the process invite paranormal investigators into their house. The investigators bring in a female spiritualist who is able to detect the evil presence haunting the family. She tells the parents about one specific entity which is trying to use their child to somehow escape the afterlife. Acting on the spiritualist's guidance, one of the parents has to journey into the spirit world and bring back the missing child. But even then, the horror isn't over...

Which film have I just described?

I don't highlight these similarities as a criticism. On the contrary, I like the fact Wan didn't just produce a straight-up remake, but rather took the basic plot of Spielberg and Hooper's film and created his own version of it which is stylistically very, very different. There's a lot of his trademark creativity on display in Insidious, and that elevates it above being just another rip-off. Besides, Spielberg borrowed the basic plot of Poltergeist from Richard Matheson's 1953 story 'Little Girl Lost' and The Twilight Zone episode of the same name, so he and Wan essentially did the same thing in taking an earlier story and putting a fresh spin on it. I personally prefer Poltergeist and think it's a superior film, but Insidious unnerves me in a way Poltergeist doesn't. So they're both worth watching.

I suspect the success of Insidious contributed to the disinterest that greeted the 2015 remake of Poltergeist. Why would horror fans want to see an uninspired remake when they'd just recently seen an inventive reimagining presented as a fresh IP?

Regarding the sequels, I have seen the second and third Insidious films, but I didn't think much of them. They were ok, but not as good as the original. I haven't seen the fourth one yet. I'd be interested to know how it compares with the others and if it's worth watching.

In general, I agree with your assessment that The Conjuring films are better than the Insidious series. Maybe it's because they're R-rated, but the best entries in The Conjuring franchise (i.e. the first two movies) feel darker, more mature and sophisticated than Insidious. Hopefully they'll be able to recapture that quality in the upcoming films.

Is anyone else around here besides me and colors a fan of these movies?

[thecolorsblend]

The suburban home of a middle-class American family is disturbed by a series of ghostly happenings. The activity is centred around one of the children, who is soon spirited away by a supernatural force. The family try to recover their child, and in the process invite paranormal investigators into their house. The investigators bring in a female spiritualist who is able to detect the evil presence haunting the family. She tells the parents about one specific entity which is trying to use their child to somehow escape the afterlife. Acting on the spiritualist's guidance, one of the parents has to journey into the spirit world and bring back the missing child. But even then, the horror isn't over...

Which film have I just described?

Nice to know I wasn't just imagining that, honestly.

Knocked out Insidious: Chapter 2. I see it as a worthy follow-up to the original. Except it's not exactly a follow-up in many ways. It's more like a companion piece. It tells a part of the story that you don't even realize is missing from the original until you see Chapter 2.

In a sense, Insidious: Chapter 2 is sort of more of the same. If you enjoyed the original, nothing in the sequel will offend you. If you didn't get into the original, nothing in the sequel will change your mind. Still, I find Insidious: Chapter 2 to be worthwhile. Very enjoyable.

As to your wider point (and the subject of this thread), I do believe that The Conjuring is the stronger of the two franchises. The variety of stories, characters, villains and spinoffs that The Conjuring has to offer bear me out on that, I think.

I don't highlight these similarities as a criticism. On the contrary, I like the fact Wan didn't just produce a straight-up remake, but rather took the basic plot of Spielberg and Hooper's film and created his own version of it which is stylistically very, very different. There's a lot of his trademark creativity on display in Insidious, and that elevates it above being just another rip-off.

Same. And same. If the PG-13 rating had existed in Poltergeist's time, it stands to reason that's what it would've been rated. And the fact that Insidious is rated PG-13 struck me as no accident. But I could be reading too much into that.

In any case, considering how everything is derivative of everything else, Wan's synthesis of Poltergeist with a tiny bit of The Exorcist plus his own ideas and then putting all that stuff into a modern context. I think most people would need to have the Poltergeist influence pointed out to them before they recognized it.

Besides, Spielberg borrowed the basic plot of Poltergeist from Richard Matheson's 1953 story 'Little Girl Lost' and The Twilight Zone episode of the same name, so he and Wan essentially did the same thing in taking an earlier story and putting a fresh spin on it. I personally prefer Poltergeist and think it's a superior film, but Insidious unnerves me in a way Poltergeist doesn't. So they're both worth watching.

Huh. Now, that's... interesting.

See, what makes Poltergeist work for me is Spielberg's authentic schmaltz mixed with Hooper's grisly sensibilities. I find that combination successful. Two great tastes that taste great together. And in a sense, quintessential Eighties horror. Poltergeist is an icon of its time and its genre. A classic.

Insidious plays like it was made for love of the game. Wan says he wanted to prove he could do PG-13 horror. And that's probably true. But watching Insidious yesterday, it seemed like a movie where everyone involved wanted to make a good film that's fun to watch. And frankly, the performances from Insidious are better than Poltergeist.

I suspect the success of Insidious contributed to the disinterest that greeted the 2015 remake of Poltergeist. Why would horror fans want to see an uninspired remake when they'd just recently seen an inventive reimagining presented as a fresh IP?

I wondered the same thing myself. Watching the Poltergeist trailer back then, it just didn't grab me. And obviously, Insidious wasn't a consideration for me at the time. But as above, I just figured Poltergeist was a product of its time and there wasn't any point in remaking it.

But your point about Insidious taking the wind out of the remake's sails has merit to it. It takes no imagination at all to see where horror fans might've tuned out of the remake precisely because of Insidious.

[Silver Nemesis]

As to your wider point (and the subject of this thread), I do believe that The Conjuring is the stronger of the two franchises. The variety of stories, characters, villains and spinoffs that The Conjuring has to offer bear me out on that, I think.

The scope of The Conjuring Universe is indeed much larger than most other horror franchises. The stories take place in different countries, in different decades, and cover a variety of subjects: demons, ghosts, werewolves, serial killers, witches, possessed dolls, etc. This series is ten years old now, but it still has fuel left in the tank. If they handle it with care, it could continue for another decade.

I watched Poltergeist again last night (the original, not the remake), and it holds up beautifully. The eighties vibe certainly adds to the atmosphere and charm. I always enjoy spotting the old Star Wars toys in the background of the kids' room. I've still got some of those original Kenner figures. Though I do question whether children that young would have had a poster for Ridley Scott's Alien in their bedroom in 1982. Carol Anne is only five, and Robbie's eight. Would they have even seen that movie, let alone have a poster for it?

It's no wonder they're getting freaked out all the time. It's directly opposite Carol Anne's bed as well, which means it's probably the last thing she sees before she goes to sleep. Poor kid.

I watched the 2015 Poltergeist remake years ago but I honestly can't remember much about it, which says a lot. I don't recall it being terrible, but I do recall it being pointless and bland. Insidious has a very strong identity of its own, whereas the Poltergeist remake felt like a hollow spectre of the original. It was better than Poltergeist 3, but that's not saying much.

I just found out that Patrick Wilson has directed Insidious: The Red Door. He and Wan obviously have a strong working relationship. Unless I've miscounted, The Conjuring: The Last Rites will be the twelfth film they've collaborated on.

Have you seen Insidious: The Last Key, colors? If so, what's the verdict? I haven't seen it yet.

Back in 2017 there was a competition for filmmakers to produce short horror movies that could be incorporated into The Conjuring canon. Here are most of the winners.

The Nurse (US)

The Confession (UK)

What's Wrong With Mom? (Mexico)

Blund's Lullaby (Sweden)

The fifth winner is called Innocent Souls and was made in Colombia, but I can't find it on YouTube.

Anyone interested in Ed and Lorraine Warren might also like to check out the 1991 TV movie The Haunted, which is based on the Smurl haunting they investigated in 1986. Ed and Lorraine appear in the movie played by Stephen Markle and Diane Baker. It's not as good as The Conjuring, but it's a decent chiller nonetheless. You can watch it free on YouTube.

I wonder if Wan will adapt this story for a future Conjuring movie.

[thecolorsblend]

Have you seen Insidious: The Last Key, colors? If so, what's the verdict? I haven't seen it yet.

Not yet. Probably will watch it tomorrow.

At the moment, I've got Insidious: Chapter 3 paused. And... not feeling this one as much. I like the original and see a lot of merit in Chapter 2.

But so far, Insidious: Chapter 3 consists of Quinn being haunted by person unknown for reasons unknown while Elise will neither $#!+ nor get off the pot.

To be fair, Chapter 3 is shading in some of Elise's backstory, particularly with the Bride In Black.

But the pieces of the puzzle aren't going anywhere. I've got a half hour'ish left to go with Chapter 3. By this equivalent point, Chapter 1 had revealed the general threat plaguing the family and the exact peril that Dalton was facing. In Chapter 2, Parker Crane had been revealed as the culprit and the reveal of his mother as the string-puller was very close.

But here in Chapter 3, we still don't know who the Man Who Can't Breathe is or why he's attacking Quinn (aside from she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, essentially). If there is a deeper motive, shouldn't it have been revealed by now? If there isn't a deeper motive, why should I bother investing in the story?

I can't criticize Chapter 3 on a technical level. The tone is comparable to the strength and power of the first two. It truly does have a menacing atmosphere about it. But until the threat has some sort of context, the movie is shaping up to be a collection of scenes that are powerful unto themselves but don't have the narrative connective tissue to give the audience some kind of foothold in the conflicts, the characters, etc.

I emphasize that Chapter 3 is not weak sauce. But Chapter 3's pacing, structure and writing simply do not measure up to the first two films. This is particularly confusing since Leigh Whannell is the writer for all three films. So, I can't fathom how he lost the plot (literally) between Chapter 2 and Chapter 3. It doesn't add up for me at all.

I'll get back to you about Insidious: The Last Key.

[Silver Nemesis]

At the moment, I've got Insidious: Chapter 3 paused. And... not feeling this one as much. I like the original and see a lot of merit in Chapter 2.

The creepiest part of Insidious 3, from what I remember, is the final scene. It's not a particularly sophisticated scare, but...... well, you'll see.

I emphasize that Chapter 3 is not weak sauce. But Chapter 3's pacing, structure and writing simply do not measure up to the first two films. This is particularly confusing since Leigh Whannell is the writer for all three films. So, I can't fathom how he lost the plot (literally) between Chapter 2 and Chapter 3. It doesn't add up for me at all.

I didn't realise until now that Leigh Whannell directed the third movie as well as writing it. Is it the same problem as The Conjuring 3, where Wan handing off the reins after the first two hurt the franchise? Or do you think even with Wan directing it still would have been a letdown owing to the script?

I'll get back to you about Insidious: The Last Key.

Coincidentally, I was browsing the TV guide last night and The Last Key is airing on British television on Sunday night. I've set my TV to record it. You'll see it before I do, so you can warn me if it's really bad.

[thecolorsblend]

Insidious: The Last Key starts now. Haven't finished it yet. I'm only about 10 minutes in.

Still, something I should've mentioned before is that Insidious is a more visually consistent franchise than The Conjuring.

For example, the red door with the black knob. It's a consistent element in all the movies I've seen so far. In fact, the color red and/or red light is almost always indicative of some sort of ghostly/supernatural presence. It's a menacing color in the world of Insidious and that's true (so far) across all of the films.

I like The Conjuring, obviously. But the stories, characters, visuals, etc. are all over the place. That's not a bad thing. Every movie is its own kettle of fish. I'm just saying that one strength that Insidious offers is a consistent visual style across the board.

There's not a deeper point to that. I just figured somebody ought to say it.

[thecolorsblend]

Insidious: The Last Key

Very enjoyable. At this point, I'm sort of resigned to the fact that nothing will compete with the Wan films. Which is okay. If for no other reason than Insidious: The Last Key is a big step up from Insidious: Chapter 3.

In fact, I'll say that Insidious: Chapter 3 is the weakest of the bunch. And as above, it's still pretty good. I just have grievances with the story structure. The film itself is worth a watch.

Most importantly, Insidious: The Last Key features a return to authentic stakes for the characters. Even the new characters are enjoyable and have something to win or lose.

All in all, I'd say it's worth your time to watch it, SN.

[Silver Nemesis]

Still, something I should've mentioned before is that Insidious is a more visually consistent franchise than The Conjuring.

For example, the red door with the black knob. It's a consistent element in all the movies I've seen so far. In fact, the color red and/or red light is almost always indicative of some sort of ghostly/supernatural presence. It's a menacing color in the world of Insidious and that's true (so far) across all of the films.

I like The Conjuring, obviously. But the stories, characters, visuals, etc. are all over the place. That's not a bad thing. Every movie is its own kettle of fish. I'm just saying that one strength that Insidious offers is a consistent visual style across the board.

That's true. Cinematographic variety is one of the reasons I rate The Conjuring films above the Insidious series. At worst, some of The Conjuring films have a generic horror movie look to them (The Curse of La Llorona). But most have strong cinematography that's suited to the subject matter of each specific story. I don't think any of them are bad looking movies, though some are more visually appealing than others.

The first Conjuring film has a sallow colour palette that seems somehow appropriate for the 1970s New England setting. Browns and yellows dominate, giving the picture a vaguely autumnal flavour that complements the themes of witchcraft.

In contrast, The Conjuring 2 takes place in London during the depths of winter. The colour temperature is intentionally cold, accentuating blues and greys that produce a very different atmosphere from the first movie.

The Nun is set in 1950s Romania, and so the production design and overall look of the film is much more gothic.

The cinematography in Annabelle Comes Home has a marked late seventies/early eighties feel. There's lots of indoor haze accentuating shafts of light, which gives the image a slightly fogged textured quality that's vaguely nostalgic.

With Insidious they use the same aesthetic from one film to the next, which makes them more visually cohesive but also limits the extent to which the sequels can forge their own identity. One aspect of Insidious's visuals that divides fans is the appearance of the Lipstick-Face Demon. Most viewers concur that he resembles a certain Dark Lord of the Sith.

Some say this makes him unintentionally funny, but I don't know. Darth Maul is a pretty scary guy. It's one thing to see Maul in the context of a galaxy far, far away, but another thing entirely to have him haunting your home. Like, imagine if you got up in the middle of the night and saw Darth Maul glaring at you from the shadows at the end of a hallway. That'd be terrifying.

Insidious: The Last Key

Very enjoyable. At this point, I'm sort of resigned to the fact that nothing will compete with the Wan films. Which is okay. If for no other reason than Insidious: The Last Key is a big step up from Insidious: Chapter 3.

In fact, I'll say that Insidious: Chapter 3 is the weakest of the bunch. And as above, it's still pretty good. I just have grievances with the story structure. The film itself is worth a watch.

Most importantly, Insidious: The Last Key features a return to authentic stakes for the characters. Even the new characters are enjoyable and have something to win or lose.

All in all, I'd say it's worth your time to watch it, SN.

This all sounds promising. I'm more enthusiastic about seeing it now.

[Silver Nemesis]

I watched The Last Key last night.

I see what you mean about the stakes. Elise is an endearing protagonist, and the fourth film fleshes out her back story and gives Lin Shaye some juicy dramatic material to work with. Writer Leigh Whannell crafts a compelling narrative that places Elise at the centre of the drama. There are a couple of twists I didn't see coming, and that stopped it from getting stale. In fact The Last Key might have the strongest plot of any entry in the franchise so far. The first Insidious is clearly the best film overall and the most frightening, but as we've discussed, the plot in that movie is one we've seen before. The Last Key offers a fresh story that's more personal for Elise, even if most of the set pieces are still familiar (it's the third sequel, after all). It didn't quite match the first film's emotional hook of the parents trying to save their kid, but it succeeded in making me care about what was happening.

On the downside, I didn't find it frightening. It was disturbing in places – particularly the flashback scenes of Elise's father abusing her – but it didn't have that spine-tingling quality that made the first movie so haunting. The first Insidious still gives me shivers on repeated viewings, but none of the sequels scared me. Most of the scares in The Last Key are straightforward jump scares punctuated by loud musical cues. Viewers who like jump scares will react more positively, but I've seen so many horror movies now that my nerves are numbed to that technique. I also found Joseph Bishara's score to be less creepy than in the earlier films.

But all in all, it was decent. The first Insidious movie is the only one I really like and find frightening, but I enjoyed watching The Last Key.

[thecolorsblend]

Now that you've seen the movie, I feel a bit more comfy about going into spoiler territory.

For as likable and sympathetic as the Elise character may be, the production is facing a challenge with her inasmuch as she only has a finite amount of runway before her character dies. Now, in the mythos of the Insidious universe, the character can still somewhat continue. But now there will be constraints on her.

So, it seems obvious that the Imogen character is sort of meant to eventually pick up where Elise will leave off.

I'm totally fine with that. But it needs to happen sooner or later.

And while I haven't seen The Last Key yet, I don't see Imogen listed anywhere in the official credits. So, I'm not sure what the series will do with the character going forward.