When did Batman retire? *Spoilers*

[Gotham Knight]

My guess, based on the theatrical presentation, is that Batman didn't just stop on a dime. He slowly faded away.

He was likely instrumental in bringing about his own obsolescence through Wayne Enterprises, something he starts up in the mid 1990s. WE changes everything, but causes trouble on the way up.

This is a film universe where big baddies don't show up every five minutes, so maybe Batman has a couple more big outings with the likes of say, Victor Fries, a doctor cut off by WE in 1996 after his experimental treatments for Macgregor's syndrome cause harmful side effects. In 1998, Pamela Isley is next, who loses a contract with Wayne Pharmaceuticals for her own dangerous experimentation, and then finally in 2001 comes the big test. He faces Edward Nygma, a true 21st century villain. Ed is a programmer and security expert fired by WE for his increasingly concerning delusions of grandeur and his para-social fixation on Bruce Wayne. His obsession becomes megalomania and as the Ridder he uses his security systems to take over the city as Gotham now uses WE broadly in all aspects of infrastructure. When he is killed while trying to transfer his conscientiousness into these systems, WE uses his work to upgrade the city, effectively going all Delta City. Bruce Wayne is forced out by the company when it is purchased by Lexcorp and Batman slowly becomes a nuisance showing up to crime scenes hoping to stop upstart villains who never get a chance to be a big deal because they get shot down by the privatized military of Lexcorp. And there's Batman who mostly stands around while hazmat cleans up Jervis Tetch's entrails.

Batman isn't seen after 2005. He keeps tabs on Lexcorp for a few years and then finally just kind of fades away.

[eledoremassis02]

A small part of me hoped they'd use some of this audio in a Keaton "flashback" given that it's not in the final cut. I feel like his Alfred was overall consitant thru the films and this would of worked well with Keaton thinking about Alfred when Flash noticed the pen.

[The Dark Knight]

My guess, based on the theatrical presentation, is that Batman didn't just stop on a dime. He slowly faded away.

I can go along with this. He disappears as mysteriously as he appeared. There isn't one last big battle, and people don't notice his absence straight away. For all they knew he was still out there patrolling the streets when in actuality Bruce was eating spaghetti in Wayne Manor.

[eledoremassis02]

Came back from a second screening and noticed Young Barrys friends refer to Batman in the present tense, so it seems not everyone (if anyone) knows that Batman retired. That maybe what helps keep Gotham safe because people think Batman is still in the shadows (ala The Batman)

[The Dark Knight]

Came back from a second screening and noticed Young Barrys friends refer to Batman in the present tense, so it seems not everyone (if anyone) knows that Batman retired. That maybe what helps keep Gotham safe because people think Batman is still in the shadows (ala The Batman)

I think so. The city knew Batman very well because he was a prominent figure. In B89 there was a public batsignal unveiling and from that point on he was a household name. The younger Barry said he used to see the Batmobile on the news when he was a kid. That's a good clue as to when sightings of Batman in the wild ceased.

[eledoremassis02]

Batman has been retired for 25 years (whenever that is) 2:47

He's talking about catching up with Batman after 30 years. So then it seems he was Batman till around 1997/8ish wich is rougly when the film series ended.

He quits because he kills a bad guy infront of kid and that causes him to shut away his Batman side. Wich is exactly what I thought the Dark Knight Returns reference was with the alcohol. I do think this isnt 100% the definitive reason given whats explained in the film.

[Silver Nemesis]

For anyone who doesn't want to watch the entire featurette, here's the most interesting quote from Muschietti:

"If Bruce Wayne, as the story tells, has been retired for twenty-five years, what happened to him? I always said something should have happened to Bruce Wayne to [make him] want to stop being Batman. And my idea was he did something that goes against his code: he killed a criminal in front of his [the criminal's] child. Unknowingly, but he still did it. Which is an exact mirroring situation of what happened to him when his parents were killed in front of the Monarch Theatre, and that created that 'monster' that Batman is. So he just couldn't cope with it, and that's why he decided to shut off his other side, Batman, and he hasn't been able to forgive himself. And now the way we find him is a bit of, like, the evolution of that journey. You know, he's a tragic figure. He's basically a character that is in search of redemption, but eventually finds a way to do it by helping Barry."

I don't recall any of this being referenced in the finished film. I hope there's at least one deleted scene where this is all explained, because it sounds like Bruce was meant to have a much deeper character arc. If so, The Flash really is Batman Forever all over again – in both movies Bruce Wayne was meant to have a more dramatic storyline in which he's wrestling with unresolved guilt issues that directly concern his present motives, and in both movies the scenes explaining this were cut.

If WB has any respect for the fans (ha!) they'll release the deleted scenes and let us assemble a decent Batman movie out of all this.

As to the backstory Muschietti came up with, it's actually quite interesting and could've worked. It reminds me of the Batman Beyond Bruce quitting after he broke his code by using a gun. We know the Burton Batman is willing to kill and use guns, so neither of those things alone would have driven him into retirement. But killing a criminal in front of that criminal's child? That's a different story. We saw how strongly Bruce reacted to Oswald's parental loss ("His parents... I hope he finds them"), so just imagine how he'd react to knowing that he himself was the cause of such loss. That he was the one who orphaned an innocent kid. I could see the guilt of that pushing him over the edge.

[eledoremassis02]

For anyone who doesn't want to watch the entire featurette, here's the most interesting quote from Muschietti:

"If Bruce Wayne, as the story tells, has been retired for twenty-five years, what happened to him? I always said something should have happened to Bruce Wayne to [make him] want to stop being Batman. And my idea was he did something that goes against his code: he killed a criminal in front of his [the criminal's] child. Unknowingly, but he still did it. Which is an exact mirroring situation of what happened to him when his parents were killed in front of the Monarch Theatre, and that created that 'monster' that Batman is. So he just couldn't cope with it, and that's why he decided to shut off his other side, Batman, and he hasn't been able to forgive himself. And now the way we find him is a bit of, like, the evolution of that journey. You know, he's a tragic figure. He's basically a character that is in search of redemption, but eventually finds a way to do it by helping Barry."

I don't recall any of this being referenced in the finished film. I hope there's at least one deleted scene where this is all explained, because it sounds like Bruce was meant to have a much deeper character arc. If so, The Flash really is Batman Forever all over again – in both movies Bruce Wayne was meant to have a more dramatic storyline in which he's wrestling with unresolved guilt issues that directly concern his present motives, and in both movies the scenes explaining this were cut.

If WB has any respect for the fans (ha!) they'll release the deleted scenes and let us assemble a decent Batman movie out of all this.

As to the backstory Muschietti came up with, it's actually quite interesting and could've worked. It reminds me of the Batman Beyond Bruce quitting after he broke his code by using a gun. We know the Burton Batman is willing to kill and use guns, so neither of those things alone would have driven him into retirement. But killing a criminal in front of that criminal's child? That's a different story. We saw how strongly Bruce reacted to Oswald's parental loss ("His parents... I hope he finds them"), so just imagine how he'd react to knowing that he himself was the cause of such loss. That he was the one who orphaned an innocent kid. I could see the guilt of that pushing him over the edge.

I just wonder how he killed him unknowingly. Like kicked him too hard or dropped him off a roof ala Nolan and he died later? Given the character development he got in Returns, I assume it wasnt on purpose in the same way he killed in 89/Returns.

[Silver Nemesis]

I just wonder how he killed him unknowingly. Like kicked him too hard or dropped him off a roof ala Nolan and he died later? Given the character development he got in Returns, I assume it wasnt on purpose in the same way he killed in 89/Returns.

Good question. Rather than it being a major villain death, I imagine the criminal he killed was some small-time nobody he failed to pull his punches on. It could've been a situation like in the following clip, where he just whaled on the guy without realising the kid was present. Only in Batman's case he accidentally killed him.

Or it could've been a Rorschach situation where the criminal did something so bad that it caused Bruce to lose his cool. Like if Batman caught some lowlife molesting a kid and went ballistic on him, momentarily losing control and pummelling the guy to death in front of his child.

One of those two scenarios seems plausible.

[The Dark Knight]

My mood on all this has soured. Keaton's Batman retired for 25 years? That doesn't wash with me, especially as someone who preferred a longer career for him. A 25 year retirement makes his sprightly return in the movie all the more absurd. Not really buying his reason for retiring in Andy's mind either. Is Batman, particularly this Batman, so mushy? We were told Batman's retirement was because he wasn't needed anymore. Gotham was safe. So which is it, Andy? I'd prefer the latter, but here he is twisting things in knots.

Our childhood Batman's lore is suddenly at the whim of a guy who popped up in recent years to direct The Flash? The B89 comic just didn't hit the mark in terms of providing a thematic or narrative continuation, and The Flash is no better really. It doesn't feel authentic because we know it's not from the original creative minds from back in the day. It's all well after the fact.

The Burton Batman universe is so specific in aesthetic and atmosphere that any attempt to continue it can't get close. Burton's two films had backstory but it was subtle, and let your mind wander to fill in your own blanks. Such as the trophy room being from Bruce's early travels. The whole thing should have just been left to F'ing be.