The Cameos (SPOILERS)

[The Joker]

[Silver Nemesis]

Nicolas Cage has commented on his Flash cameo:

Your "Superman Lives" movie was infamously scrapped in the '90s. So what was it like finally seeing yourself in the cape battling a giant spider in "The Flash"?

Well, I was glad I didn't blink. For me, it was the feeling of being actualized. Even that look for that particular character, finally seeing it on screen, was satisfying. But as I said, it's quick. If you really wanted to know what I was going do with that character, look at my performance in "City of Angels."

I was supposed (to play) Clark Kent after that (in "Superman Lives"), and I was already developing this alien otherness playing this angel. That is a perfect example of the tonality you would've gotten for Kal-El and for Clark Kent: Clark would've been a little more amusing but Kal-El (had) the sensitivity and the goodness and the vulnerability and all those feelings that were kind of angelic and also terrifying.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2023/07/27/nicolas-cage-sympathy-for-the-devil-movie-interview/70470149007/

He looks computer animated in the finished film, but apparently he suited up and shot the scene in live action. The digital de-aging process made him look like a cartoon.

[The Laughing Fish]

Really disappointed to see Adam West's likeness was recreated for a brief moment. Like the rest of effects, that cameo didn't even look good - you can't even make out the ears.

This video calls out The Flash's use of deceased actors in an analysis of Hollywood's sordid use of recreating the dead. As it was stated before, Disney is responsible for starting this since Star Wars.

[thecolorsblend]

It's funny that very little has been done about this over the decades.

Back in the Nineties, Groucho Marx's likeness was used in some commercial back in the Nineties. I forget the details (and the product being advertised) but it caused minor controversy in its time because it raised the prospect (possibly for the first time) that deceased celebrities could be digitally resurrected for projects that might NEVER have consented to in their lifetimes.

And then there's the sticky issue of everyone else's likeness as well.

Well, here we are.

Between AI and deepfakes, Hollywood has too damn much power, technology and lack of accountability. The time to fight back on this was probably ten years ago. But it may not be too late even now.

[Travesty]

Am I the only one who thought the George Clooney cameo made no sense? I mean, he comes out with a full beard, but he's supposed to be the Batman of that universe who takes Affleck's place. He also talks to Flash, as if he's still working...so why does he have a beard? I mean, I get it, they got Clooney to agree to this, and he has a beard in real life, so they just rolled with it, but when I saw that, I was just like, "this makes no sense whatsoever".

Maybe that's just me being extremely picky, but if they're going to do it, might as well do it right. The beard makes no sense for a working Batman.

[The Dark Knight]

I agree with that. The cameos didn't serve any purpose and lacked the wow factor. But if they they wanted to use The Flash to wrap up the DCEU, they could've asked back as many actors from the films as possible and had them appear at the courthouse ala cartoon Brave and the Bold's wrap party. They had cameos for West and Cage but anything else was apparently teasing the future.

[The Laughing Fish]

It's funny that very little has been done about this over the decades.

Back in the Nineties, Groucho Marx's likeness was used in some commercial back in the Nineties. I forget the details (and the product being advertised) but it caused minor controversy in its time because it raised the prospect (possibly for the first time) that deceased celebrities could be digitally resurrected for projects that might NEVER have consented to in their lifetimes.

And then there's the sticky issue of everyone else's likeness as well.

Well, here we are.

Between AI and deepfakes, Hollywood has too damn much power, technology and lack of accountability. The time to fight back on this was probably ten years ago. But it may not be too late even now.

A few years ago, a project to reanimate James Dean with CGI for a starring role in a movie got canceled, presumably due to public backlash. Chris Evans and Elijah Wood were very vocal being against this.

https://fortune.com/2021/09/30/james-dean-cgi-new-movie-nft/

It's definitely not too late to discourage Hollywood to abuse this technology, but there are some apologists out there. John Glover defended the Reeve cameo, because according to him, he reckons he worked with and known Reeve long enough to believe he'd approve at any chance to play Superman. This is highly debatable because if I remember right, he had to be convinced to come back to the role for the The Quest for Peace. Regardless, Glover is missing the point: Reeve has been dead for nineteen years. He didn't give consent for something that didn't exist when he was alive. The same thing goes for George Reeves, Adam West and Peter Cushing. Due to not knowing what their stances would be, all of these deceased actors before 2023 should be left alone.

As long as SAG-AFTRA continues to strike against exploitative A.I. to protect the rights and integrity for performers, including background extras, there will be pushback.

Am I the only one who thought the George Clooney cameo made no sense?

Gunn and Safran don't give a sh*t. They chose to do this ending for a cheap, lame laugh. If you're expecting any coherent planning from those dickheads, you're gonna be disappointed.

[eledoremassis02]

There is defitnly an ethics issue. However, there is also the issue with the estate/family and what is seem ok. For example. Michael Jackson and Bruce Lee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz25tcFSusc&pp=ygUXQnJ1Y2UgTGVlIEpvaG5ueSBXYWxrZXI%3D (this was backed by Shannon Lee (his daughter))


I find Tupacs to be the most in bad taste since it's supposed to be his spirit, but the people that knew him seemed to not care.

I understand the ethics of creating a performance or nostalgia bait. For me, that also includes making money of off dead famous people thru comics and collectables as well (comics more so). Very much like Robin Williams who made sure his likness wasnt exploited after he died (and even while he was alive).

I do think this includes fan made things as well. The Kevin Conroy AI ones are particularly hard to take https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuiJ7WzjrLw&t=18s&pp=ygUPS2V2aW4gQ29ucm95IEFJ

To go back to Bruce lee. Fans were angered because Bruce Lee would never do a ad for alcohol because he never drunk (appernelty he did but very little). However, Bruce Lee did do a (now lost) cigarette commercial, tho he never smoked (cigarettes).

[The Laughing Fish]

Yeah, I've seen many videos that use the likeness of dead rock singers' voices to sing AI cover of songs, from Chris Cornell to Kurt Cobain.

I understand the ethics of creating a performance or nostalgia bait. For me, that also includes making money of off dead famous people thru comics and collectables as well (comics more so). Very much like Robin Williams who made sure his likness wasnt exploited after he died (and even while he was alive).

Fascinating point. Personally, I think recreating an actor's likeness on film is taking a step too far. This ethical issue is also connected with one of the biggest concerns surrounding the actors' strike: AMPTP wants to scan actors' (especially background actors) appearances forever without paying them or their estates any compensation, as well as the studios doing whatever they want with their footage. When you put that into perspective, comics and merch don't seem to be that exploitative in comparison. Surely those avenues give royalty payments to the estates.

I do think this includes fan made things as well. The Kevin Conroy AI ones are particularly hard to take https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuiJ7WzjrLw&t=18s&pp=ygUPS2V2aW4gQ29ucm95IEFJ

I'll admit, I am impressed they were able to mimic Conroy's voice so accurately. Do I still think it's weird? Yes I do, because if you look at this from a broad point of view, it distorts reality. Thanks to this technology, people are going to be duped into thinking a person saying something because the imitation sounds so realistic and legitimate. How do you verify the person's voice if this technology becomes so flawless?

Very worrying times ahead in the future.

[thecolorsblend]

Personally, I think recreating an actor's likeness on film is taking a step too far. This ethical issue is also connected with one of the biggest concerns surrounding the actors' strike: AMPTP wants to scan actors' (especially background actors) appearances forever without paying them or their estates any compensation, as well as the studios doing whatever they want with their footage. When you put that into perspective, comics and merch don't seem to be that exploitative in comparison. Surely those avenues give royalty payments to the estates.

I'd like to jump in on this aspect, if possible.

The more I read about this issue, the more I think that Hollywood unions are fine in their place. I don't mind them. But the REAL solution here needs to be federal legislation to protect the likeness of all people. In today's world, virtually anybody can arguably be viewed as a public person. If you have a social media presence or even if you have a podcast with only two or three subscribers, are you now a public person? With today's technology, that's all wide open to debate.

I know someone who was an extra in the TV show Veronica Mars. He popped up in the background of something like six or seven different episodes. He was between jobs at the time, he needed the money and he was in school for film production. So, he thought that being an extra in a TV show would be good experience and education for him. He was right too. He learned a LOT just watching stuff happen on the Veronica Mars set. But at the same time, he never signed on to eternally give his likeness away to some gigantic media conglomerate. He's a private person, notwithstanding his multiple appearances on a low budget TV show with miniscule ratings.

I'm usually not one to call for more laws to be created. But in this specific case, I think we need federal law to take a stand on this. It's not just for actors and entertainers. In the long run, it's for the good of everybody.