Box Office Thread

[thecolorsblend]

The opening weekend box office estimates are in: $55 million domestic and $75 million overseas (https://variety.com/2023/film/news/the-flash-box-office-disappoint-pixar-elemental-flop-1235647927/).

At this point I'm confident in describing The Flash as a bomb.

I'm hearing "The Flash" is on track to gross less during it's opening weekend than what "Black Adam" did.

If that's the case, the fact that Keaton's return to the cowl couldn't pull more people in than "Black Adam"'s opening weekend, well..... there's really no other way around it is there? It's just sadly unfortunate.

Black Adam's opening weekend was $67 million.

The Flash's opening weekend (Fri-Sun) is currently shaping up to be $55 million.

That's... kind of painful.

[The Dark Knight]

My conclusions:

1. There is a sizeable and strong shunning of this movie by people who loathe Miller and will not see it under any circumstance. That's understandable.

2. Without the support of the Snyder contingent any DC shared universe film will underperform. And I don't think they're coming back.

3. If I were WB I'd be freezing any future shared universe plans. They have a serious problem and I can't see it abating with a reboot. Blue Beetle will go the same way.

I don't see this as a pure rejection of Keaton, but a downward trend that has been consistent for a good while now.

[Silver Nemesis]

[eledoremassis02]

Kevin Smith just said Michael Uslans son told him that Michael Uslan said if Flash did as well as Batman, he'd do a Batman Beyond movie with keaton.

And now we know.

[thecolorsblend]

Kevin Smith just said Michael Uslans son told him that Michael Uslan said if Flash did as well as Batman, he'd do a Batman Beyond movie with keaton.

And now we know.

Staking a Keaton Beyond movie to The Flash's box office success seems incredibly shortsighted to me.

[Silver Nemesis]

With all due respect to Uslan, he doesn't have the clout to commission a Batman movie. As I understand it, the only Batman film he was creatively involved in was Batman '89. He's received executive producer credits on every Batman movie since (though not The Flash, interestingly) because he and Benjamin Melniker secured the film rights back in the seventies, but neither of them had any real influence on how those pictures turned out. Any more than Stan Lee did on the Marvel movies for which he was credited as executive producer. If a Batman Beyond movie is commissioned, it won't be Uslan making the decision.

The best we can hope for is that WB learns the right lessons from The Flash's failure and takes to heart the positive reception Keaton's received. If Beetlejuice 2 is a success, that could also be a factor. If Burton finally got his mojo back, and delivered a critical and box office hit starring Keaton, then the studio might look for other projects for them to collaborate on. Fans and critics alike have universally praised Keaton's return, with many highlighting him as the best thing about The Flash. If the studio is paying attention to this, then Batman Beyond could still happen.

I'm glad the earlier DCEU version of Batman Beyond was cancelled. It was being written by the same screenwriter as Birds of Prey, The Flash and Batgirl, and it would've focused on the romance between Bruce and Selina. I want Pfeiffer to return as much as the next fan, but Selina should not be at the centre of a Batman Beyond movie. And Batman Beyond should not be a comedy. It needs to be a dark cyberpunk movie, taking its cues from the Blade Runner films and Akira (1988). A little humour is fine, but it should be played mostly straight and should work as a standalone film.

Burton used to be good at making dark, violent movies that still had humour in them (BR and Sleepy Hollow being the best examples). If Burton does finally pull out of the creative slump he's been wallowing in for the past two decades, then Beetlejuice 2 and Batman Beyond might be the perfect one-two punch to restore his reputation. I think most of us here would love to see that happen. His creative resurgence is long overdue.

[The Joker]

Staking a Keaton Beyond movie to The Flash's box office success seems incredibly shortsighted to me.

It is. I don't disagree, but it is Warner Bros. after all. I mean, this is a studio that felt the need to have a guy publicly announce months ago that that the REAL start of the cinematic DCU starts in 2025.

Personally, I don't know just how much that entire schpiel truly affected this past weekends box office, nonetheless, to feel the need to get that out ASAP when you already have millions invested in DCEU films yet to be released... interesting strategy for sure.

The best we can hope for is that WB learns the right lessons from The Flash's failure and takes to heart the positive reception Keaton's received. If Beetlejuice 2 is a success, that could also be a factor. If Burton finally got his mojo back, and delivered a critical and box office hit starring Keaton, then the studio might look for other projects for them to collaborate on. Fans and critics alike have universally praised Keaton's return, with many highlighting him as the best thing about The Flash. If the studio is paying attention to this, then Batman Beyond could still happen.

Hopefully so, Silver. I was hoping that "The Flash" would at least end up a reasonable success (along with Beetlejuice 2) in order to provide that one-two punch that would ultimately make a "Batman Beyond" movie with Keaton and possibly Tim Burton directing, a notion that would be too good to pass up. Even for a studio like Warner Bros.

I'm glad the earlier DCEU version of Batman Beyond was cancelled. It was being written by the same screenwriter as Birds of Prey, The Flash and Batgirl, and it would've focused on the romance between Bruce and Selina. I want Pfeiffer to return as much as the next fan, but Selina should not be at the centre of a Batman Beyond movie. And Batman Beyond should not be a comedy. It needs to be a dark cyberpunk movie, taking its cues from the Blade Runner films and Akira (1988). A little humour is fine, but it should be played mostly straight and should work as a standalone film.

Wholeheartedly agree. One thing that would theoretically work in a live action "Batman Beyond" film, is that it would obviously be under the 'Elseworlds' umbrella. Which would not be tied into Gunn's stuff, and it seems like WB is more open to the notion of elseworlds movies being played more straight where the main line DC films can often come across as MCU-lite. With the jokes landings being very hit-and-miss.

Speaking of which, the ending of "The Flash" with Clooney came across like WB was ultimately more concerned about getting a chuckle from the audience, than truly aiming to serve what the movie had been selling us for over two hours. Endings A and B were not exact, but as other posters have astutely already pointed out, displayed a overall more satisfactory conclusion to the narrative we had been witnessed to as opposed to Ending C. Which just felt glib at best.

Burton used to be good at making dark, violent movies that still had humour in them (BR and Sleepy Hollow being the best examples). If Burton does finally pull out of the creative slump he's been wallowing in for the past two decades, then Beetlejuice 2 and Batman Beyond might be the perfect one-two punch to restore his reputation. I think most of us here would love to see that happen. His creative resurgence is long overdue.

Yes it would be nice to see Burton rise up like a phoenix, and get some of that '80's-'90's mojo back. Keaton has made some comments recently that sounds promising, with their approach for "Beetlejuice 2" being just like that of the original. If collaborating with Keaton doesn't provide some inspiration, then dating Monica Bellucci definitey should. 

Going back to the topic of the soft box office for "The Flash", the promotion with the stars has certainly been atypical. Professor Groom (I can't help but think of this everytime I see Ezra now. Thanks Silver!  ) has been MIA outside of showing up at the premiere, and Keats has done a few fan Q&A's at select screenings. As far as WB is concerned, the less Michael Shannon speaks about his time on "The Flash", the better. Leaving pretty much Sasha Calle and Andy Muschietti to carry the load on the grinding interview circuit. The financial impact of all this may very well be negligible, but ultimately, this is certainly not the most ideal scenario when it comes to promoting such an expensive multi-million dollar movie. Not by any stretch.

[Silver Nemesis]

Wholeheartedly agree. One thing that would theoretically work in a live action "Batman Beyond" film, is that it would obviously be under the 'Elseworlds' umbrella. Which would not be tied into Gunn's stuff, and it seems like WB is more open to the notion of elseworlds movies being played more straight where the main line DC films can often come across as MCU-lite. With the jokes landings being very hit-and-miss.

I don't know why they haven't used that DC Black label Todd Phillips suggested. Batman Beyond would be perfect for that.

In other threads we've discussed how it could be hypothetically connected to Batman '89, but I'd be happy for BB to be a standalone movie. I definitely want Keaton to star in it, and if possible for Burton to direct. But it could serve as a vague sequel to the earlier films and still work as a standalone project like Joker (2019). Just begin with Keaton as an old Bruce Wayne and don't get bogged down in continuity references. They've played the nostalgia card with The Flash, so there's no need to repeat all that.

The tone would have to be very different from what Gunn's likely to deliver. Tonally, it should be closer to what Nolan, Phillips and Reeves did. Perhaps even make it R-rated. If they try to connect it to the wider DCEU, which is what it sounds like they were doing with Christina Hodson's script, then it would be dead in the water.

Anyway, getting back to The Flash, Variety has run the following article on the movie's box office failure.

'The Flash' Box Office 'Disaster' Exposes DC's $1.1 Billion Problem for Warner Bros.

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/the-flash-box-office-dc-blue-beetle-aquaman-1235650170/

This quote sums it up:

"The movie should be opening at $120 million domestic," says an industry veteran who's worked on many major campaigns. "This is an unmitigated disaster." (A spokesperson for Warner Bros. declined to comment.)

And they've still got Blue Beetle and Aquaman II with Amber Turd yet to flop. WB execs right now:

[The Dark Knight]

I had a look at what Jett from BOF is saying, and I agree with him. The shared universe on film should be forgotten about and the Gunn reboot is risky beyond belief. What is going to change? All this hype talk about products that nearly always end up being embarassing box office bombs. Then we have the actors who become associated with that - who would want to be?

The scale of The Flash's box office turmoil is staggering. It could be one of the biggest financial disasters of all time. Aquaman II and Blue Beetle will probably go the same way, and the reputational damage is going to be deepened from what it already us. The post credit scenes for The Flash were pointless and they shouldn't have even bothered including them. How does that excite people about the next film in the story?

If they want a new Superman film just make one without setting yourself up in a bigger cinematic universe that is inclined to flop - because the audiences just don't care. The model for DC is there with Joker and The Batman, but on they go with another reboot. Things are destined to get messier than they are now, I think.

[GBglide]

Paul, would you consider posting this as a poll on Batman-Online Facebook page?


Would you re-watch "The Flash" on a prescribed day to tell WB how much we want a Michael Keaton "Batman Beyond" movie? If the sales shot up on one day, it would send a message.

Yes

No