*SPOILER THREAD* - The Flash

[eledoremassis02]

I was pleasantly surprised to find that Keaton's Batman succeeded in cleaning up Gotham. Has that ever happened with any other version of Batman (comic or movie)?

Not that I've read, but I did like that detail as well. It would've bothered me if he's retired and his whole crusade was for nothing.

True, I've never liked the comic idea that Gotham is literally on cursed soil. It makes Batman's job impossible, the best he can do is keep everything in check.

It's a general statement that doesn't give context as to how it happened. I lean on the side of not liking the idea crime vanishes from Gotham like magic. Because of that, I'm imagining that perhaps this Batman's other villains met similar fates to that of the Joker and the Penguin, and any other remaining lower level threats were kept in line with drones patrolling the streets in the real Batman's physical absence.

I was thinking how much Gotham cleaned up between 89 and Returns. 89 They were trying to get people to come back to Gotham and money seemed to come back by Returns so I think if there was a Batman to clean up Gotham, it would be Keatons.

I do wonder bout small crimes tho considering his big introduction and how he was going after low level criminals.

[The Joker]

A fun & breezy mess of a movie

That's about how I would describe "The Flash". It's definitely not as bad as some are making it out to be, but at the same time, no where near a classic comic book movie either. With repeat viewings, your mileage may vary. Personally, I had fun with it. The script overall could have used a few rewrites, however, I couldn't help but think that "The Flash" really felt like a throwback to a 1990's type superhero movie. Complete with a breakneck pace, cheesy one-liners, and what comes across as a limited capability for special effects. With the cameos being outstanding examples of this.

Seeing Michael Keaton's Batman return, after all this time, was the ultimate pinnacle for my interest with this, and what a joy it was! He makes playing the part seem absolutely effortless, and admittedly his call-back lines didn't irritate me. Not one bit. Actually, the "Lets Get Nuts" bit even gave me goosebumps knowing in the back of my mind, the last time that he might have ever said that, was towards Nicholson's Joker. I also enjoyed how aloof he came across with the two Barry's following the kitchen conversation, and his assessment about the multiverse using spaghetti to illustrate his point, then following it up with a "yeah, pass." The way Keaton played it, reminded me of how he departed from Vicki and Knox in '89, after he said, "Give Knox a grant." A nice touch indeed. Course, I could go on and on, but overall Keaton really looked like he was enjoying himself in the film, and I think his performance shined the very brightest in this film. Not even close.

I never was particularly a big fan of Ezra's version of the Flash, but I'll give him his due that he played the duo role quite well. I'm sure the overwhelming majority of his filming was against a green screen, and he's clearly not simply phoning it in, so I'll give the guy props for that. He's definitely the main character(s) of the piece, and if his performance doesn't work, then this film wouldn't work whatsoever. The way the speedforce is conveyed in this film was different and unique (As far as I know), so that was a plus. I can't say i ever really was a big fan of the Flashpoint story arc, so the fact that the live action iteration also took liberties doesn't really irk me whatsoever to be perfectly honest. Sure, the Reverse-Flash would have been nice, but at the same time, it's VERY Barry centric and apparently the film wants to continually hammer that nail in.

I liked Sasha Calle's Supergirl, as she exuded a confidence yet emotional persona that a Kara Zor-El Supergirl should ideally evoke, but it really felt like her scenes were edited down to the absolute bare minimum in order to get to the desert fight scene with Zod and his forces, and even then I've read that the Supergirl/Zod fight scenes were edited due to them coming across more R rated than originally anticipated.

The Super-Cameos scene was pretty fun overall. The cameo that the West/Dozierverse was more fleeting than I would have honestly preferred, but it was a nice enough nod. Sounded like Caesar Romero was speaking along with Adam West for the brief time that Earth was shown. Speaking of Romero, supposedly Romero's Joker, Burgess Meredith's Penguin, Marlon Brando's Jor-El, and Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman were to be included as well during the cameos sequence, but were left on the cutting room floor. Personally, I would have definitely scrapped the Jay Garrick cameo (since there's no real attachment there for the general audiences to grasp) in favor for Lynda's Wonder Woman. I liked seeing Nic Cage's Superman (hell I even backed  Jon Schnepp's outstanding documentary about the film), but the entire sequence felt a little too Superman focused with all the variations. So I can't help but feel conflicted overall. Might a appearance from Dick Durock's Swamp Thing sufficed (being that he starred in 2 movies and a 3 season tv show)? Or maybe even Jackson Bostwick/John Davey's Captain Marvel/Shazam from the 1970s? 

If I were to have a major gripe, is that the film comes across as being tinkered with and tinkered with, and tinkered with (go figure). There is such a thing as succeeding something into a failure due to consistent 'adjustments', and though I wouldn't call "The Flash" a failure, it simply doesn't qualify as a top-tier film in the genre. Better than a lot of Disney's Marvel movies no matter what the mouseketeers say (especially so in more recent years oof), but it's unfortunately not 2019's "Joker", the Burton Bat-movies, the Nolan Batman trilogy, or Zack Snyder's (non-fiddled around with) DCEU trilogy. it's just not. However, it is a fun watch, albeit messy at times, non-lecturing, and there is amusing value in such a film. Not every movie can be a absolute critical darling and winner at the box office, nor should they be.

Again, a fun & breezy mess of a movie.

[Silver Nemesis]

I'm glad we got to see Keaton's Bruce fighting out of costume for once. There was meant to be a scene in Batman Returns where Bruce and Selina fought off a gang of muggers in their civilian guises, but it ended up being cut from the script.

In general I'm very happy with Keaton's action scenes in this movie. I thought we'd get one fight scene, but instead we were lucky enough to get three:

•    Drunk Bruce versus the two Barrys
•    Batman versus the Russian soldiers
•    The one-on-one 'boss fight' between Batman and Nam-Ek

Each fight scene was different and unique in its own way, and I'll be updating the 'Fighting Style of the Burton Batman' thread to analyse them once they're available online. Based on my initial viewing, I'd say his fighting style in The Flash is basically a faster and more agile version of his fighting style in B89. In B89 he mostly uses kicks, hooks and jabs, favouring an offensive approach over the more defensive strategy he employs in BR. In BR he uses fewer kicks and more headbutts, backhand strikes and interception grapple moves; generally waiting for his opponent to attack first, and then blocking/dodging and counterattacking.

His fighting style in The Flash is closer to B89, albeit enhanced with greater speed and some new moves. I reckon he has at least two or three new martial arts in his repertoire, but I'll go into that in more depth once the clips appear online.

[eledoremassis02]

I'm glad we got to see Keaton's Bruce fighting out of costume for once. There was meant to be a scene in Batman Returns where Bruce and Selina fought off a gang of muggers in their civilian guises, but it ended up being cut from the script.

In general I'm very happy with Keaton's action scenes in this movie. I thought we'd get one fight scene, but instead we were lucky enough to get three:

•    Drunk Bruce versus the two Barrys
•    Batman versus the Russian soldiers
•    The one-on-one 'boss fight' between Batman and Nam-Ek

Each fight scene was different and unique in its own way, and I'll be updating the 'Fighting Style of the Burton Batman' thread to analyse them once they're available online. Based on my initial viewing, I'd say his fighting style in The Flash is basically a faster and more agile version of his fighting style in B89. In B89 he mostly uses kicks, hooks and jabs, favouring an offensive approach over the more defensive strategy he employs in BR. In BR he uses fewer kicks and more headbutts, backhand strikes and interception grapple moves; generally waiting for his opponent to attack first, and then blocking/dodging and counterattacking.

His fighting style in The Flash is closer to B89, albeit enhanced with greater speed and some new moves. I reckon he has at least two or three new martial arts in his repertoire, but I'll go into that in more depth once the clips appear online.

Batman in the flash did feel alot more like 89 than Returns. I actually can't recall any call backs to Returns outside the Batmobile

[BatmanFurst]

/quote]
The logo on Batman's new suit is the Return's insignia. Alternate Barry wears the Return's suit in the finale.

[eledoremassis02]

/quote]
The logo on Batman's new suit is the Return's insignia. Alternate Barry wears the Return's suit in the finale.

Duh! Im dumb    Im also glad the Returns suit flash used looked to be an unfished one since the emblem was still unpainted

Also, I missed the small part about Barry telling Bruce about when he reversd time before so the Snyder cut is cannon! Not to mention he saved that one kid during Man of Steel wich goes against Justice League Theatrical

[The Dark Knight]

Batman in the flash did feel alot more like 89 than Returns. I actually can't recall any call backs to Returns outside the Batmobile

The cape glider was similar to Returns, and the chest logo has already been mentioned. Drunk or not, Bruce's missed attack on Barry's head with the broom could've had the power to kill or seriously injure. This Batman doesn't run even when under time sensitive pressure either, but walks with purpose ala the Burton films. There are a couple references to the bat turn as well, namely when he looks up the elevator shaft before planting the explosive. I was hoping that explosive blast took down some soldiers just for old times sake - in memory of the Strongman.

[eledoremassis02]

Batman in the flash did feel alot more like 89 than Returns. I actually can't recall any call backs to Returns outside the Batmobile

The cape glider was similar to Returns, and the chest logo has already been mentioned. Drunk or not, Bruce's missed attack on Barry's head with the broom could've had the power to kill or seriously injure. This Batman doesn't run even when under time sensitive pressure either, but walks with purpose ala the Burton films. There are a couple references to the bat turn as well, namely when he looks up the elevator shaft before planting the explosive. I was hoping that explosive blast took down some soldiers just for old times sake - in memory of the Strongman.

I was hoping for at least the returns batarang or even the unused bomb prop used in 89 but as far as I could tell his newer stuff looked generic.

[The Joker]

A new HollywoodReporter article going over all the multiple endings.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/the-flash-inside-george-clooney-return-batman-1235517975/

Hollywood secrets have become notoriously hard to keep, but Warner Bros. and the filmmakers of The Flash pulled off a doozy with the final moments of their DC film.

After more than 25 years, George Clooney returned to the role of Bruce Wayne, marking a remarkable change of heart for an actor who was unequivocally done with the role. It was also a secret that the studio was able to keep tight for close to six months.

In a mic drop movie moment, one which has left audiences howling, The Flash's final scenes shows Barry Allen (Ezra Miller) on the phone with Bruce Wayne. The phone call comes after a climactic courthouse hearing and Barry finally returning to his own Earth and timeline. Wayne pulls up to the courthouse in his car and as he gets out, the assembled crowd part to reveal Wayne...as played by Clooney, not the Ben Affleck version Barry expected.

Clooney infamously played Bruce Wayne/Batman in filmmaker Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin, the ill-fated 1997 movie considered one of the worst superhero films of all time. The actor has repudiated it over the years, with it being the most visible miss in his storied career.

He told Howard Stern in late 2020 that it was physically painful to watch his work in the role. Said the actor: "The truth of the matter is, I was bad in it. Akiva Goldsman — who's won the Oscar for writing since then — he wrote the screenplay. And it's a terrible screenplay, he'll tell you. I'm terrible in it, I'll tell you. Joel Schumacher, who just passed away, directed it, and he'd say, 'Yeah, it didn't work.' We all whiffed on that one."

Clooney was known as a TV actor on the hit medical procedural ER when he was cast as Batman. It was to have been a defining moment for the actor, to become a full-fledged movie star in a time when movies stars, not brands or IP, mattered. Instead, the movie was a nail in the coffin for DC and Batman movies for years, with Batman finally returning to the big-screen with 2005's Batman Begins.

Clooney's return to Bruce Wayne was not years in the making. In fact, it was made within a few weeks with some phone calls, two screenings of the movie, and a half day of shooting in January.

It was also the third ending crafted for the film, which director Andy Muschietti made through three separate regimes at Warners. The Flash serves as a study of a movie that survived and evolved in a rapidly changing media landscape, facing the dictates of several sets of studio heads and a multi-billion dollar acquisition.

The Flash began life under the studio regime run by Toby Emmerich and his lieutenant, DC Films boss Walter Hamada. Most of the shooting and post-production was undertaken under that leadership, with the movie as part of Hamada's plan to have Flash build to a major reset of the entire DC cinematic universe, departing from the one established by filmmaker Zack Snyder with Man of Steel a decade ago. Hamada planned a Flash sequel and then wanted to move to a movie inspired by the 1980s classic comic event, Crisis on Infinite Earths.

The Flash, as it was originally conceived and shot, ended on the courthouse steps with Supergirl, played by Sasha Calle, and Batman, played by Michael Keaton, who was already featured throughout the movie as a returned Batman. It was meant to highlight that Barry did not reset the timeline as he thought he did. It was an ending that was screen tested several times, one that reversed the deaths of Supergirl and Batman earlier in the film.

However, the movie got caught in the lightning storm that was Discovery's acquisition of Warner Bros. in 2022.  Emmerich and Hamada were ousted, and Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav was on the hunt for an executive to run DC. In the meantime, Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy were installed as Warner Bros. Pictures Group chairpersons and CEOs. They were tasked with overseeing DC in the meantime, and suddenly and certainly not unexpectedly they had their own plans.

A new The Flash ending was conceived. This new version was still on the courthouse steps, but now Calle's Supergirl was joined by Superman, played by Henry Cavill, and Wonder Woman, played by Gal Gadot. Keaton also remained. De Luca and Abdy believed they were being strategic with the ending. Cavill was going to cameo for DC movie Black Adam and was being teed up to return to the role in a brand new Superman movie. Supergirl was retained because even though the executives were killing the development of a standalone Supergirl movie, they were open to her returning in some form and didn't want the last image audiences saw of her to be her death at the hands of a supervillain (Michael Shannon's General Zod).

Meanwhile, the studio was developing a third installment of Wonder Woman with filmmaker Patty Jenkins and star Gadot. This was a nice way to keep Wonder Woman in the cultural conversation. This ending was shot in September involving Miller, Cavill and Gadot as well as Keaton and Calle.

Then came another lightning strike. In November, Zaslav announced that filmmaker James Gunn and producer Peter Safran were to run DC Studios, overseeing all DC film and television efforts. And suddenly and certainly not unexpectedly, they had their own plans.

Knowing they were resetting the DC universe under their own vision, Gunn and Safran saw that having Cavill and Gadot in the new ending was potentially promising something their plans were not going to deliver. One of the first actions the duo took was to scrap the Cavill Superman film, and they parted ways with Jenkins, effectively killing the third Wonder Woman installment.

The filmmakers, according to multiple people associated with the movie, then looked for alternatives but wanted to keep the germ of the idea: Barry Allen thinks all is right, but then has the rug pulled out at the last moment. They also went back to an idea joked about earlier in the filmmaking process: "How many Batmen can we get?" Clooney was brought up as a long-shot, but Gunn and Safran jumped on the notion.

The duo reached out to Clooney's agent at CAA, Bryan Lourd, showing him a cut of the mostly finished film. He liked it and then showed it to Clooney. Clooney liked it and agreed to be a part of it.

A shoot was quickly assembled and on a January morning on the Warners lot, Clooney was there as Wayne, back for the first time in 26 years. Also on set was Miller, making their first appearance on the lot since the fateful day in August where they met with De Luca and Abdy to discuss their controversial behavior (including multiple arrests) and steps forward.

Miller was in top form that day, sources say, for what was described as a quick and efficient shoot. Clooney and Miller spent some time together in between takes with the veteran actor having a talk with the younger actor, giving encouraging advice about handling being in the public eye and behaving in public.

Warner kept the new ending tucked away as much as possible. The studio didn't even screen test it. And when it screened the movie at CinemaCon for theater owners and press in April, it stopped short of revealing who came to the courthouse steps. The first time the new ending was seen by anyone other than the filmmakers was at screenings for press the week of June 4, and then at the movie's premiere last June 12.

"It's rare that you have a movie in post-production that faces three separate regimes with three separate agendas," notes one insider. "None of them were scrapped because of ill will, just different visions."

[eledoremassis02]

Do hope we get them on the bluray, tho I feel like we might not ever see them. Seeing Keaton with DCEU Superman and Wonderwoman would be something!