Vicki Vale in the Batcave

[batass4880]

Did it make anyone here mad that Alfred let Vicki into the Batcave? I didn't even know that this was an issue until I heard Sam Hamm say that it was on the B89 DVD. Why was this such a problem? It's not like he let the pizza guy in!

[shadowbat69]

I could have sworn we had this topic already started on here. Maybe that was on the old forum? Its been a year, my memory may be bad.lol Anyway, this is a good topic to discuss.


This is the way I took that whole situation. Alfred let Vic into the Batcave as a last ditch attempt to try to save Bruce from the life he chose for himself. Through the movie Bruce avoids the question that he knows he must ask himself. Can he give up being Batman for a normal life with someone he loves? Alfred is the one who ultimately forces Bruce to confront the situation. I think it was a great scene. If you watch Keaton in the scene he looks to be very angry and even delivers his lines in a somewhat aggressive manner. He knows that his mission is his one true path even if it means giving up everything he wants.

[batass4880]

I could have sworn we had this topic already started on here. Maybe that was on the old forum? Its been a year, my memory may be bad.lol Anyway, this is a good topic to discuss.


This is the way I took that whole situation. Alfred let Vic into the Batcave as a last ditch attempt to try to save Bruce from the life he chose for himself. Through the movie Bruce avoids the question that he knows he must ask himself. Can he give up being Batman for a normal life with someone he loves? Alfred is the one who ultimately forces Bruce to confront the situation. I think it was a great scene. If you watch Keaton in the scene he looks to be very angry and even delivers his lines in a somewhat aggressive manner. He knows that his mission is his one true path even if it means giving up everything he wants.

Absolutely. You hit it right on the head. Kim Basinger was also excellent in that scene too because she was afraid for him, yet when she asks him if they can try to love each other, you could tell from her voice that she knows that he has to do it. BTW, if this topic is old news I apologize. I'm still relatively new here and have not gone through all of the topics. 

[DarkVengeance]

When I was a kid I never noticed how bad of an idea it was for Alfred to do it, but it really fit in well with the story and how the characters were connected, and made the love story part of it complete for the film itself.

Overall it made the films overall story and theme flow really well, only bad thing is, is if Vicki Vale ever wanted to let out the info she could to blackmail Bruce, which I doubt she would, but its a possibility.

[BatmanEVH]

For me, I always thought that, Vicki put the pieces together after she saw the paper of young Bruce Wayne. And then maybe off camera, Vicki arrives at Wayne Manor, asks to see Bruce, Alfred tells her different but then Vicki states that she knows Bruce is Batman and let's her into the Batcave.

Besides, Bruce was going to tell her anyway, so I don't see why you would get mad.

[Gotham Knight]

I could have sworn we had this topic already started on here. Maybe that was on the old forum? Its been a year, my memory may be bad.lol Anyway, this is a good topic to discuss.


This is the way I took that whole situation. Alfred let Vic into the Batcave as a last ditch attempt to try to save Bruce from the life he chose for himself. Through the movie Bruce avoids the question that he knows he must ask himself. Can he give up being Batman for a normal life with someone he loves? Alfred is the one who ultimately forces Bruce to confront the situation. I think it was a great scene. If you watch Keaton in the scene he looks to be very angry and even delivers his lines in a somewhat aggressive manner. He knows that his mission is his one true path even if it means giving up everything he wants.

This was always my assesment as well. Excellently put.

[Paul (ral)]

Every scene with Alfred confronting Bruce's problems is excellent.

My favourite line is "I have no wish to spend my few remaining years grieving for the loss of old friends....or their sons."

For me, that is the heart of the movie.

[Joker81]

I just watched Siskel and Eberts review for Batman. Eberts views on this film I totally disagree with - he missed the whole point of Batman 89 completley and was so out of touch with it. I dont know how he ever became a movie critic. He seemed to have a total downer on Burton from the go (even going on to say Forever was better than Returns and Batman Begins was the first Batman film to get it 'totally right'!)

But back to my point, and the thread, Ebert says to Siskel "can you remember Vicki's reaction in the Batcave when she finds out he is Batman? - Exactly! There wasn't one."

He was so wrong. Vale didn't find out he was Batman when she was let into the cave. The penny dropped when she seen the newspaper clipping of the Wayne murders and Knox says "What do you suppose something like this does to a kid?"

I think the 'Bruce and Vicki in the Batcave' is a great scene. At first I always thought 'why did Alfred let her in!?' But I think it works, and the acting is great. And so is Elfmans music in the background, fits the atmosphere of the scene well. Its great that the cave is the place where batman brought her earlier in the film- a place where he hadn't brought any being before. And here she was again, only looking at Bruce Wayne, a human being - not a super human or Bat-man - talking out the truth. Its almost like a follow up to the first time they are in the cave together only this time she's not afraid to ask the questions. Its kind of like a sequel to that first confrontation in the cave between Vicki and Batman. lol

All in all its a small scene that is tying up a few things before the big action and third act starts. Its not that important really, but I cant imagine it set anywhere else now, because it wouldnt work for me (Imagine it happening in the kitchen or Vales appartment!)

And as for Ebert, the guy didnt know what he was talking about! Batman and Returns were very successful movies! He got it so wrong. I think he was expecting Superman and what he got he couldnt comprehend.

Sorry if I rambled on there but thanks for reading!

Ps Shadowbat I agree with you there, I never thought about it like that before, because Alfred didnt want Bruce to go after the Joker in the final part of the film.

[batass4880]

I think the first time she suspects that Bruce is Batman is after he rescued her from the Joker and they are driving through the woods to the Batcave. She's trying to study his eyes and mouth until he shines a light in her face. She suspected he was him but obviously didn't know. That's what makes it a great psychological movie, which Ebert didn't get.

[DarkVengeance]

I just watched Siskel and Eberts review for Batman. Eberts views on this film I totally disagree with - he missed the whole point of Batman 89 completley and was so out of touch with it. I dont know how he ever became a movie critic. He seemed to have a total downer on Burton from the go (even going on to say Forever was better than Returns and Batman Begins was the first Batman film to get it 'totally right'!)

But back to my point, and the thread, Ebert says to Siskel "can you remember Vicki's reaction in the Batcave when she finds out he is Batman? - Exactly! There wasn't one."

He was so wrong. Vale didn't find out he was Batman when she was let into the cave. The penny dropped when she seen the newspaper clipping of the Wayne murders and Knox says "What do you suppose something like this does to a kid?"

I think the 'Bruce and Vicki in the Batcave' is a great scene. At first I always thought 'why did Alfred let her in!?' But I think it works, and the acting is great. And so is Elfmans music in the background, fits the atmosphere of the scene well. Its great that the cave is the place where batman brought her earlier in the film- a place where he hadn't brought any being before. And here she was again, only looking at Bruce Wayne, a human being - not a super human or Bat-man - talking out the truth. Its almost like a follow up to the first time they are in the cave together only this time she's not afraid to ask the questions. Its kind of like a sequel to that first confrontation in the cave between Vicki and Batman. lol

All in all its a small scene that is tying up a few things before the big action and third act starts. Its not that important really, but I cant imagine it set anywhere else now, because it wouldnt work for me (Imagine it happening in the kitchen or Vales appartment!)

And as for Ebert, the guy didnt know what he was talking about! Batman and Returns were very successful movies! He got it so wrong. I think he was expecting Superman and what he got he couldnt comprehend.

Sorry if I rambled on there but thanks for reading!

Ps Shadowbat I agree with you there, I never thought about it like that before, because Alfred didnt want Bruce to go after the Joker in the final part of the film.

All he did was speak his own opinion on the two films, it dosent mean that he dosent know what he's talking about, just because he dosent like two films that you love and can understand because you've probably watched them a hundred times and disected the hell out of them. Theres alot of plot holes and bad things about Burtons bat-films that just dont work well, just as there are with the rest of the bat-films, or superhero films in general. It must be the reason that he's not a fanboy, and thats why he disliked them. lol give me a break!