Trailer

[The Joker]

Wow! That was a pretty epic trailer, and one that does a good job in hyping up the film. I couldn't help but smile, and actually get goosebumps, hearing Keaton deliver the "You want to get nuts? Let's get nuts!" line echoing B89. Also, his opening delivery speaking about his parents was very good and earnest. It immediately got my undivided attention to say the very least.

One thing about I can appreciate about this trailer, especially, is it's tone of urgency. Where, going purely off the trailer, the scenes that very much intend to create a dramatic mood, isn't just continually lessened by a Whedonesque quip, or per typical Gunn-style of comedy. Literally stopping everything in it's proverbial tracks, just in the hopes for a chuckle from the audience. It's a very tired shtick by this stage, and I remain cautiously optimistic that such instances are kept at a bare minimum with this film.

But yeah, Batkeats is, as always, on point in this trailer. It remains for me, very difficult to get invest in Barry's story line given that, you know, it's Ezra, but Sasha Calle has grown on me a little bit. I have no ill feelings towards her, and hope she winds up a good Supergirl in the end.

Admittedly, it's going to be bittersweet knowing this is Batfleck's final final bow as Batman, so I hope whatever little screen time he has, they really make it count. The rumors of a new 'vague' ending now being implemented, accompanying the numerous cameos which we pretty much already knew about, just sounds like classic Warners hedging their bets on what to do for the future. As they clearly are anticipating this film to be a financial success, and immediately turning around to s**tcan any theoretical good will for Gunn's slate, might not be in their best interest. We'll see of course, as DCEU plans with Warner Bros will consistently remain fluid, and to which James Gunn will find out soon enough (and possibly more sooner than later ... especially if the chatter about GOTG Vol 3 currently tracking to under perform have any validity to them).

From the trailer:

Batcave Setup: 1989 - 2023



and the classic line. 

[eledoremassis02]

The Batwing being hung like a bat is a (possibly?) nice nod to Batman Forever

[The Dark Knight]

This is really special. Keaton's first day back on set as Batman:

"When he arrived to the set, the Batcave was already finished," Andy Muschietti said. "He was lit and everything and he stayed like this for a while. I didn't want to interrupt him or anything, I just wanted him to just take it in. Who knows what was going on [in his head], but something was going on there. And it was funny, because at one point were the first thing that we shot where he's wearing the full suit, he's like, 'can you take a picture? It's for my grandson.'"

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-flash-what-michael-keatons-batman-return-was-like-on-set/

[eledoremassis02]

A look inside the Batwing

[eledoremassis02]

was watching a video on the new suits in the vault and (not sure if anyone esle picked up on it) but the two suits on the right

The aquatic suit might very well be this universes fight getting claw island and the winter suit could of been his universes fight against freeze freezing gotham.

I wonder if Flash going back only modifies the Schumacher films instead of erasing them?

[DocLathropBrown]

According to folks who saw the film at CinemaCon, Barry theorizes that his hi-jinks in time mashed two previous worlds together--so technically, he's not going to Burton's original universe, but ends up in a timeline that merged Burton's with the Snyderverse. While it's ultimately just empty plot detail, this makes more sense to me--the idea that 30 years after Returns, things seemed to be exactly like Snyder's universe was, stylistically, a bit jarring.

This, I think, also explains why the distant shots of Keaton's Gotham don't particularly evoke Burton's style--it's not 1:1 the same universe. No doubt Burton's movies played out the same, but outside of the story details, it isn't perfectly beholden. This also allows the implication of pre-'89 Batsuits some wiggle room, as I find it hard to believe he had previous suits when having only been in his first months.

[The Dark Knight]

According to folks who saw the film at CinemaCon, Barry theorizes that his hi-jinks in time mashed two previous worlds together--so technically, he's not going to Burton's original universe, but ends up in a timeline that merged Burton's with the Snyderverse. While it's ultimately just empty plot detail, this makes more sense to me--the idea that 30 years after Returns, things seemed to be exactly like Snyder's universe was, stylistically, a bit jarring.

This, I think, also explains why the distant shots of Keaton's Gotham don't particularly evoke Burton's style--it's not 1:1 the same universe. No doubt Burton's movies played out the same, but outside of the story details, it isn't perfectly beholden. This also allows the implication of pre-'89 Batsuits some wiggle room, as I find it hard to believe he had previous suits when having only been in his first months.

Indeed, it's an important point. I believe the emotional beats of Bruce being retired are faithful to his evolution years after Returns, but the world we see Batman venture out to in The Flash wouldn't have been present in either B89 or BR. The Wayne Manor and cave from The Flash may look different but I think they're meant to be the same - it's what outside the confines of that setting that is distorted. I like to pretend Burton's Gotham is under a snow globe as a world all to itself.

[DocLathropBrown]

Yeah, ultimately, it's just an offshoot universe. My preferred sequence of events will always be the original four films--I like Bruce's evolution as a character there. From a lonely, haunted and unsettled vigilante to an emotionally centered crimefighter with a new surrogate family. It very much mirrors the evolution of the character from the Golden to Bronze ages, and I appreciate that very much, as coincidental as it may have been.

I suppose in this new timeline... Robin never came around, Bruce never made peace with his parents' death (and may still blame himself for it), and has only become more bitter and more brooding. Alfred dies, severing all of Bruce's link to his remaining humanity. It's a gloomy path. But when the forces of evil rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the planet... he still answers the call. That's still a resonant story and if Bruce still dies in battle against Zod and the Kryptonians, at least he died fighting for the planet, and that's still an element I can appreciate.

[Silver Nemesis]

Yeah, ultimately, it's just an offshoot universe. My preferred sequence of events will always be the original four films--I like Bruce's evolution as a character there. From a lonely, haunted and unsettled vigilante to an emotionally centered crimefighter with a new surrogate family. It very much mirrors the evolution of the character from the Golden to Bronze ages, and I appreciate that very much, as coincidental as it may have been.

For nostalgic reasons, I'll probably always feel that way too. One perspective is that the Schumacherverse timeline was how things originally played out, and maybe the new timeline is a divergent alternate reality created by the Flash damaging the multiverse. Clooney's cameo indicates the Burton and Schumacher films occupy separate realities, but maybe Clooney's appearance signifies the restoration of the original timeline. So instead of dying in the desert battle, Keaton's Batman now ages into the Clooney version from B&R. I doubt that's what the filmmakers intend, but if there's no coda revealing the status of Keaton's Batman after the Clooney cameo, and no plans for a Batman Beyond movie, then I see no reason why the Schumacherverse timeline couldn't be restored after The Flash.

It is confusing to consider all the different possible timelines spinning off from the Burton films. First of all, there was the syndicated comic that acted as a quasi-sequel to the 1989 movie and predated Batman Returns: https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=706.msg26207#msg26207

There was Sunsoft's Batman: Return of the Joker (1991) game that was a sequel to the 1989 movie game, and which resurrected the Joker instead of using Catwoman or Penguin.

There were the Schumacher movies, which treated the Burton films as canonical in the same way as Superman Returns treated the Donner Superman films as canonical.

A version of Batman existed in Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, and he drove the same Batmobile as Keaton.

I agree with colors that the Schumacher Batman would have been a better fit tonally for L&C, but at the time this episode aired the Burton and Schumacher Batmen were considered one and the same.

You could argue that the OnStar Batman and Birds of Prey (2002) versions were also spinoffs from the Burton-Schumacher films, though you'd have to explain why the Joker was still alive in both timelines.

There's Earth-89 in the CW-verse.

Then there's the Earth-789 timeline in the comics, which places the Burton movies in the same universe as the Donner Superman films and ignores the Schumacher movies altogether.

Now The Flash presents us with a new timeline that ignores everything except B89 and BR.

Beyond that, there was also the deleted timeline we'll never see, featuring Batgirl and the original version of Aquaman II, where Keaton became the new DCEU Batman.

With so many conflicting timelines, it's up to fans to assemble their own head canon.

[DocLathropBrown]

A version of Batman existed in Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, and he drove the same Batmobile as Keaton.

If I recall, doesn't Cain mention Batman once during L&C?

Also, I pity that crook. Going up against Superman, and then what is Batman gonna do to you once he finds the Batmobile (which you know he will)?