The Batman SPOILER Thread!

[The Dark Knight]

To me TB doesn't hold up on rewatches like the others do. It's a long slog and Batman is a poor detective. He's a young year two Batman, they say. Yeah, well, B89 and BB feature young Batmans and are more competent, and to put things in perspective the comic incarnation has Robin in his third year of crime fighting. I'm tired of the realism thing now too which is limiting, especially with villain choice.

And TB didn't exactly get TDK's reception. People liked it but it wasn't THAT big of a smash.

It had a respectable showing at the box office but I know it wasn't everyone's cup of tea when they actually saw it. The brand gets people in. I honestly think a lot of the hype around the film is more niche from an online bubble and not mainstream. Nolan's trilogy in comparison, while still with the realism angle, had more vitality and cultural impact. A Reeves sequel could be better but I still couldn't see it reaching those heights. Right now with such a gap it feels like why even bother.

[thecolorsblend]

Right now with such a gap it feels like why even bother

I generally agree. I'm not sure I understand what they think they'll achieve by this.

The rumors persist about a "civil war" between Gunn and Reeves. If there's any truth to those rumors at all (and there might not be), then I should imagine that the play will be to wait for the box office numbers for Superman 2025 to come in.

I realize that S25 hasn't gotten a glowing reception here. But the response on social media has been overwhelmingly positive. 250 million views of the teaser is nothing to sneeze at.

If S25 is a hit, then I imagine that TB2 is probably DOA. At that point, my guess is that Gunn's Batman will be the ONLY Batman coming out.

The only reason I question the "civil war" rumors at all is because, by all rights, there shouldn't be a civil war. You've got Matt Reeves on one side (you know, JJ Abrams's minion) and on the other side is the guy who directed the Guardians Of The Galaxy movies. If you're WBD and can only cater to one or the other, it's no contest.

That's not a civil war; it's Operation Praying Mantis.

[The Dark Knight]

If Reeves truly has not completed a script after all this time I have serious questions about his work ethic and concept creation. I would have thought he had strong ideas about where he wanted the story to go. Referring to someone as a perfectionist is a nice way of calling them lazy as far as I am concerned. A fan base doesn't want bad movies but they also don't want to wait five years or more. I think people would generally take more of something than less if the product was good even if not great.

I've seen talk that perhaps Reeves has been undergoing a divorce, and thus the script has withered on the vine. Sorry, that wouldn't wash with me either if true. We all have to grapple with our personal lives while at work and meet reasonable deadlines. Yes, it's just a movie and doesn't factor much in world politics. But nonetheless, a following does exist with Batman and his movies, regardless of what incarnation it may be. Capital has been laid out to reboot the franchise and create TV spin-offs. There's an obligation to build that.

But the sceptic in me thinks something else is going on. Reeves may be having to wear this exclusively because of some unspoken backroom moves – probably to keep all options open. Reeves had been saying filming was all set for next year and the story was progressing. Was he pulling legs or telling the truth? I now see The Brave and the Bold has been postponed for now, with no clear timetable. Which does go to what colors says, I think. To see how Superman (2025) performs. There's a Clayface movie set in the DCU coming out well before a hypothetical Reeves sequel – I could see them easily casting a new Batman for a cameo if they really wanted.

Let's say TB2 gets made – I think it has to be different from what was originally intended now. A time jump of some kind and perhaps another TV series beforehand. TB2 could even be reworked to serve as a conclusion to the story as well, given how insanely long it takes for the movies to have scripts written. If that's the case, I wouldn't rule out a complete scrapping. I didn't think TB2 would be delayed this long but it has been. It just takes one more update later on to end things, and move on with something more consistent and longer term.

[thecolorsblend]

Your point about sequel ideas merits discussion.

Reeves obviously walked in with more than a movie pitch. He had a treatment for a Batman film, obviously, but also pretty specific ideas for ancillary TV shows such as The Penguin as well as similar ideas for GCPD and Arkham shows.

His ideas were refined enough for all of those TV ideas to reach varying levels of development. So far, of course, we've only gotten The Penguin. But those other ideas gained traction as well.

Simply getting one TV show off the ground is tough enough. But Reeves had the mojo to get one brought to series and two more somewhere far along into development. That's a virtually Herculean task in Hollywood.

On that basis, yeah, I can totally see how it would've taken five years to finish The Batman under those circumstances. There were a lot of irons in the fire. Logical.

But now, we're supposed to believe that he had ideas for a Batman film and three different shows but, apparently, the tank was empty for a sequel? He poured everything he had into one movie and sincerely didn't have a clue about how to continue the movie franchise?

Seriously, that's what they're claiming? I'm supposed to buy that?

Or is it more likely that he had some pretty gd solid ideas for at least two films plus some tie-in TV shows but right now corporate politics fouling the whole situation up?

If a hired gun like Pattinson already had sequel ideas, it would be incomprehensible for the director to not have had plans of his own.

[The Dark Knight]

What's odd is that TB, regardless of how my opinion fluctuates about certain elements, set the stage for big character growth. Batman was seemingly going to devote himself to crime fighting but in a less vengeful way, and Bruce was going to lighten up as well. I'm not a scriptwriter but would be excited to continue that evolution.

I'm wondering if the TV shows threw a batarang into the works and slowed down script progress. Apparently a lot of The Penguin was going to be included in Part II, but that was excised, which would require reworking on a script. But nonetheless, surely a core villain and certain plot beats would have been nailed down.

I'm okay with letting things rest to avoid audience burnout phase, but have to admit I'm feeling less confident in Batman media lately. I feel like it's been a downer. The Flash, along with the Gotham Knights and Suicide Squad games killed Batman. I think a more traditional style Batman needs a comeback after overly violent incarnations like Absolute Batman, which are over the top. I also feel like Batman has become too militarized. Shows set in the Batman universe but don't actually feature Batman don't help either.

Batman has had a great streak up to now but nothing is guaranteed.

[The Laughing Fish]

Well, it looks like the sequel is delayed to October 20-friggin-26.

2027

Gunn claimed a few weeks ago that there hasn't been a first draft completed yet, but if Reeves stated he has a script and is planning to shoot next year, then this latest delay reeks of sabotage. Gunn can spin any other bullsh*t all he wants, but where there is smoke there is fire.

I never had any interest in the Reevesverse, but I've followed the behind-the-scenes news and it's not the first time that fishy stuff has affected that franchise. Reeves said there were plans to develop TV spinoffs based an Arkham Asylum and GCPD in his universe, but then they didn't come to fruition. The most suspicious moment was Gunn claiming the Arkham show was always set in his DCU once he and Safran came on-board, but then that project got scrapped. The GCPD project never got off the ground because it was a show primarily about a corrupt cop (sounds like The Shield but based in Gotham City), but Reeves said the project was scrapped because the studio wanted to focus on marquee Batman characters. There was also talk about Clayface, Joker and Catwoman getting their own TV spinoffs on Max at one point, but now Clayface is announced and set in Gunn's universe instead. Now this supposed film sequel has been delayed five years and seven months after the first film?

Either Reeves is being forced to join Gunn's DCU, or he is being pressured to the point of he'll quit. I can't say care after the sh*t that happened to Snyder, Affleck and company, but it goes to show WB will never change its dirty habits.