The Batman SPOILER Thread!

[The Joker]

Spoiler Filled Review

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The same stories have been told over and over. What's important is how you tell the story. I think overall Reeves executed his vision well enough and is a bit auteurish about it. The movie plays more like a noir detective movie for the most part, and the cinematography was EXTREMELY well done. With influences from Seven and Zodiac for sure. The actions scenes were also solid, coherent, and not cut happy a la "Batman Begins" or Taken 1-19.

Pattinson was honestly a pretty excellent take on the character since there was some vulnerability and growth to him which was really great. I felt that the morose narration inner-monologue did a lot of the work that went into making him feel like a creature of the night. Bringing us deeper into Batman's psyche than in previous films. Becoming one with the shadows, and literally blanking out on some of the variables by morning. Evoking a sense of Batman as an emo kid that just simply never grew out of it,  choosing to (literally) mask the inner turmoil. 

One thing I took notice of, was that Pattison's portrayal of Bruce's behaviour, was of someone that can and will ruin relationships whether it's with the people he's close to or the city as a whole; self isolating himself to the point where no one will want you around if you're dark and edgy and violent and that's it. A strange and interesting performance. All of it together made him feel very primal.

If I have a gripe about Pattison's Batman, is that his rep in "Year Two" as Batman seems a bit disjointed. Which is more of a script issue than Pattison's performance. Clearly, we see a bunch of criminals looking over their shoulders due to Bats reputation at this stage in his career, this is year 2 after all, however, when he prolongedly and loudly walks out from the shadows to confront the gang, they act as if they are anything BUT intimidated. Being vocally dismissive of him, and even taking it further by making fun of him. I understand not everyone is going to have the same exact reaction to this Batman upon their initial confrontation, but its a weird way to convey to the audience exactly what is his standing is with the criminal element after roughly a year of doing this? Seems like something more of a Year One thing than a year two scene to me.

The detective side of Batman was greatly incorporated, and it was an amazing element to finally see used in live action in a satisfactory way. It reminded me of a Raymond Chandler novel. The detective is smart but hindered (his tech acting up) now and then and occasionally gets it wrong or misses the bigger picture. To me, that all works in a Batman story. Especially a Batman early on in his career. Again, it was a very real treat to finally see this fully utilized, and fully exploited for once.

The musical score was nothing short of OUTSTANDING! Actually to a very surprising degree. As this was something I wasn't at all expecting from Michael Giacchino as a composer. As I never really found his work within Disney's MCU films all that much to write home about, but this was clearly on another level. I don't know if his MCU movie work is an easy paycheck or what? But he assuredly stepped up his game with "The Batman". No doubt about it.

Like wow! I mean, for me I really don't think anything will ever truly surpass Danny Elfman's masterful cinematic score for Batman 1989, but I think Giacchino's may very well replace Hans Zimmer's Dark Knight Trilogy score now. Which I wasn't initially prepared to say, but ..... I am now.

The Gotham City in the Reevesverse is pretty amazing to be perfectly honest here. Aesthetically, it felt like a cross between the city in Se7en, and Detroit depicted from 1994's "The Crow". Especially with all the rain, and desolate drearyness of it all. A step up from the Nolanverse Gotham (primarily TDK/TDKR) for sure, and may just actually be my favorite cinematic interpretation of Gotham following the Burtonverse Gotham City.

Jeffrey Wright was extremely well cast and, to be perfectly honest here, I'm leaning towards saying he's probably my favorite Gordon on film thus far. Absolutely brilliant performance. Damn shame that the HBO Max Gotham show is now cancelled. As it would have been a treat having Wright (ideally) making regular appearances.

Andy Serkis as Alfred was just ok in the role. Not great, not horrible. Just there. I didn't see anything worthy enough to say 'Wow they picked the perfect guy to play Alfred' with what we're given here. Actually, I kinda felt sorry for this Alfred in the scene where he's confronted by Bruce, after he just woke up from a friggin' coma from being nearly blown up with semtex, and Bruce starts laying into about about his dad and Falcone's acusations from 20 years ago. I get that he really wants to know, but ffs maybe give him a minute.

Zoe Kravetz was ok as Catwoman. Honestly, she didn't leave much of an impression on me, and I've been debating on whether she was any better in the role than Anne Hathaway. I wouldn't say she's ranked at the bottom for me, but definitely not in the upper echelon either.

Colin Farrel as Penguin .... simply put ... the man was not in this movie enough. Cause he totally knocked it right out of the park with his perforimance. Good god almighty! For someone who wouldn't initially strike you as a good fit for Penguin, the guy truly turned in a Oswald for the ages. Whoever is responsible for his prosthetics should definitely win an award. It's very much deserved, and I look VERY MUCH forward to Colin's Penguin HBO Max tv show. 

John Tuturro as Falcone was servicable, but I think Tom Wilkinson's portrayal left more of an impression overall. I couldn't help but chuckle when I saw Falcone playing pool during the scene where Bruce confronts him about Thomas Wayne. Seeing Tuturro with a cue stick instantly made me think of "The Color of Money". Thankfully, he wasn't stroking the cue stick as he laughably did in that movie.

Now to the Riddler. A very entertaining villain, but I can't say the Zodiac killer look really did anything for me after watching the movie. Actually, its not until we actually see Paul Dano caught and fully revealed (in addition to the intense Arkham scene between Riddler and Batman) that I felt we really got a good indication on how spectacular his Riddler truly could be. So in a way, I felt he was underused thanks to the gimp getup (which was more of a hinderance than anything else in my estimation). If anything, with films like Se7en being an obvious influence, I would have preferred this Riddler to have been obscured until his reveal during the arrest scene just like Spacey's John Doe. 

The 'fringe' social media side with the Riddler, came across like a merging of The Boys with something like Stormfront. It's not particularly a trope I enjoy to see, and I kinda think it's a little too convenient that these followers, who are essentially just spiteful inadequate redditors, also just happen to be reasonably well trained in infiltration, zip lining, weapons specifics, etc. So, eh.

The grand Riddler plan twist was ok I guess, but felt more like a Post-9/11 Nolanverse climax than what this partiucular Riddler would do in the Reevesverse (would have preferred a more restrained detective story). To me, the idea of flooding Gotham is very much a middle act. Not the final act. As what exactly would stop Gotham being rebuilt and being possibly even more corrupt and morally lost than before? What exactly is the fail safe there? I understood what Ledger's Joker was going for in TDK, but Riddler's plan in TB this seems rather half baked by contrast. Character wise, it would very much be the other way around.

Speaking of Joker, I absolutely hated that Riddler/Joker scene. Good grief, the entire thing was pure cringe (especially with Dano wailing around like an autistic child having a random frustrating online session with Halo), and something that came across as being mandated by Warners during reshoots or something. For a movie that was confidently directed, this scene stuck out like a sore thumb, and felt like literally something ripped from a CW DC tv show. I mean, if the movie itself was filled with comedy like James Gunn's "The Suicide Squad", or light hearted Silver Age DC like Patty Jenkins' "WW1984", I probably wouldn't have even blinked. But with how Matt Reeves "The Batman" is represented for over two hours by this point? Ehhhh .... I think I'll probably be fast forwarding thru this particular part whenever I end up rewatching this on blu ray. Yeesh.

Overall, I liked Dano's Riddler for the most part. Didn't like the Zodiac/Jigsaw angle as much as I would have hoped, but the unmasked/revealed Dano Riddler scenes were pretty awesome (save for that Joker scene).

One thing I would FULLY expect, is that if this Riddler returns for a future sequel, any return would assuredly NOT have him in the zodiac costume again (thankfully). The masked hero fanboy worship/once-hoped-for kinsmanship is now null and void, and he would be beyond the inspired masked imitator deal that was going on in this film. A future scheme would have Riddler wanting you to be fully aware of just who was doing this, and why. Especially for a egotist like the Riddler.

Possibly a WAY to get him into a more TRADITIONAL Riddler if he returns in a future movie....

Honestly, I did think it was a little amusing that Edward "Nigma" is apparently too on the nose, hence going with the "Nashton" last name for this, but the woman running for Mayor has the name, Bella Reál?! Was the campaign slogan, "REAL change!" or something? I don't remember. I get that the Riddler was 100% correct on the dirt on every Gothamite he targeted except, glaringly, Bella Reál, and the film gives really nothing to why she's the exception to the rule of not being corrupt. Interesting.

Speaking of corruption, the film essentially conveys that the GCPD is literally overrun with corruption in this "Year Two" story. With Batman only speaking to Gordon, almost exclusively, because of the said abundance of corruption within the GCPD ranks. However, by the time Falcone is arrested, we are then privy to know that there are actually a generous amount of good and honest cops on the force. More than willing to assist in Falcone's arrest. To me, this came across like there were some scenes missing. Like, we should have got a few scenes illustrating that the corruption within GCPD isn't quite as 'across the board' as originally thought. It just felt abrupt, but not really unlike how I felt with the original surviving Ghostbusters abruptly showing up out of no where near the end of GB Afterlife. That there, ideally, should have been a B story where we follow Ray Stanz reconnecting with Venkman and Zeddemore prior to all of them showing up in full gear. 

I can absolutely understand people getting irritated by the "white privilege BS" line spouted out by Catwoman in this, but I wasn't as triggered by this as some (and Andre's assessment over on Midnight's Edge is an interesting analysis). Sure, it's incredibly clunky, and ultimately makes Zoe's Reevesverse Catwoman come across as rather juvenile, and ignorant. Plus, you know that line is going to age about as well as the Myspace quote in Iron Man, but hey, let's just shoehorn it in there. Course, this is Hollywood, and they literally cannot help themselves (to which I'm incredibly mindful of at this point), so it is what it is. Unfortunate and uncessary.

I guess we should be thankful it wasn't Pattinson saying it! Haha

The ending. I liked how the film concluded on a more somber note. Two characters who both lost their parents and who are attracted to each other riding on their motorcycles together for a while until the reach a fork in the road where they split off. Batman watches as Catwoman disappears as he goes on to do his job. I thought that was, actually, kinda touching.

For it's faults, I think the first hour of "The Batman:" really nailed the film noir aspect beautifully and I wanted some more of that, but after that first hour everything sorta meanders when it needed to pick up a little more. To me, this came across as Reeves trying to be a little "too" auteurish in his approach. Hence the longer than necessary running time. Something of which Nolan was guilty of as well, but I don't really find Reeves to be on Nolan's level as a director to really warrant such a lenghty duration for this.

To wrap this up, I'll say it's my most positive cinematic DC movie viewing experience in years. As I didn't walk out thinking it was merely, "Ok", "a mixed bag", or ultimately "disappointing to an extent", but for my money, this just isn't on par with Todd Phillips' JOKER by any stretch.

8/10. A near 7 1/2, but the good elements push it just above the mark.

[The Dark Knight]

Interesting how we get three different entries into the Iceberg Lounge for our hero:

As Batman he knocks the twins out, entering via force
As Bruce he is allowed in without incident, entering via respect
As The Drifter he sneaks in unnoticed, entering via stealth

Seems to me the flooded city is the perfect reason for Bruce to begin his philanthropy. Helping rebuilding efforts, funding crisis accomodation and the like. But I wouldn't have an automatic jump with his public persona, I'd have it grow gradually. Just because he sees the company as a tool to help Gotham doesn't mean he's comfortable playing that role. This is a chance to see him learn how to be human.

[Silver Nemesis]

The Gotham City in the Reevesverse is pretty amazing to be perfectly honest here. Aesthetically, it felt like a cross between the city in Se7en, and Detroit depicted from 1994's "The Crow". Especially with all the rain, and desolate drearyness of it all.

Visually it reminded me of The Crow too. I kept expecting someone to say, "It can't rain all the time."

Speaking of corruption, the film essentially conveys that the GCPD is literally overrun with corruption in this "Year Two" story. With Batman only speaking to Gordon, almost exclusively, because of the said abundance of corruption within the GCPD ranks. However, by the time Falcone is arrested, we are then privy to know that there are actually a generous amount of good and honest cops on the force. More than willing to assist in Falcone's arrest. To me, this came across like there were some scenes missing. Like, we should have got a few scenes illustrating that the corruption within GCPD isn't quite as 'across the board' as originally thought.

I'd forgotten about that scene, but now that you mention it I remember thinking that was a bit odd when I saw it in the cinema. It almost felt as though there was a missing Untouchables-style subplot about Gordon vetting his colleagues to find out which cops he could trust. Presumably this is something they were planning to explore in the GCPD TV show.

[thecolorsblend]

This was posted in another thread and I get that. But since we might STILL be protecting against spoilers (and if we are, I say we should abandon that policy beginning this coming Sunday) then it seemed like this thread is a better place for me to reply.

I see some Unabomber in there too. Someone detached from society and living a solitary existence, but having strong critiques of the world, committing crimes to draw large scale attention to his beliefs.

I don't think it quite worked out that way. But now that you mention it, I do like the idea of Batman going up against an isolated, alienated Unabomber type of villain. Can't think of a good candidate for that tho. Besides the Riddler, I mean.

[The Dark Knight]

Elements of the Unabomber remain while not being a pure translation. Nashton was a forensic accountant and Kaczynski a mathematics professor. Both were driven by a specific political motive rather than the thrill of random killing. Nashton sends Bruce Wayne a mail bomb which Alfred went to open. And this is a bit of a stretch, but his apartment was a small area full of equipment and journaling.

Also interesting to note TB's Riddler wears the same glasses as Jim Carrey's long haired Nygma.

[Travesty]

Jett is on twitter, and it looks like he's teasing something about Clayface. Could be about the Arkham show, or it could be a tease for the new villain?

Clayface has always been my #1 choice. I would love to see what Reeves could do.

[thecolorsblend]

This comes from the no spoiler thread. But I don't think it makes sense anymore to resurrect the no spoiler thread. So, here we are.

The Riddler's theme just dropped. I like this a lot. Slow buildup and then it just gets really creepy. I'm diggin the vibe.

Still adore this theme in general and this track in particular. It's got a spooky vibe going for it that works well for this version of the Riddler.

Broadly, I enjoy this Riddler somewhat competing with TDK's Joker over whose master plan can raise the most hell in Gotham City.

I've only seen TB once. But I am very much looking forward to seeing it again.

[Travesty]

Yeah, the entire soundtrack is amazing. One of the best parts of the movie, IMO.

So good.

[BatmanFurst]

This comes from the no spoiler thread. But I don't think it makes sense anymore to resurrect the no spoiler thread. So, here we are.

The Riddler's theme just dropped. I like this a lot. Slow buildup and then it just gets really creepy. I'm diggin the vibe.

Still adore this theme in general and this track in particular. It's got a spooky vibe going for it that works well for this version of the Riddler.

Broadly, I enjoy this Riddler somewhat competing with TDK's Joker over whose master plan can raise the most hell in Gotham City.

I've only seen TB once. But I am very much looking forward to seeing it again.

I like how you can hear bits of Ave Maria in there.

[The Dark Knight]

Yeah, the entire soundtrack is amazing. One of the best parts of the movie, IMO.

So good.

It really is. It works for me as a soundtrack outside of being paired up with the visuals now, too. Giachhino's Batman theme works in a variety of different moods. For example, Can't Fight City Halloween is an instant classic of dread and darkness, while .42-50 of an In Im-purr-fect Murder is bombastic and energetic. 2.57-3.20 of the same cue is similar but with horror elements. A Flood of Terrors is perhaps my favorite, with 1.43-2.11 being some of the most Batman-y music ever recorded. There's a low key, sleuthing excitement that I love.

Broadly, I enjoy this Riddler somewhat competing with TDK's Joker over whose master plan can raise the most hell in Gotham City.

I think Hardy's Bane raised the most hell in Gotham. I'd have to weigh things up between TDK's Joker and TB's Riddler, because they have similar traits but key differences. The Joker took on the mob, whereas the Riddler targeted political and law enforcement corruption. The Joker grew to love Batman but he initially wanted him dead or retired. The Riddler had admiration for Batman from the beginning of his crusade and thus didn't target him. But he hated Bruce Wayne, whereas Carrey's loved him. The Joker had a physical presence whereas The Riddler didn't, and attacked from the shadows in the same way as Batman. I'm leaning towards Joker raising more hell, but it's a close call. Flooding the city gives Riddler a lot of points.