The Batman SPOILER Thread!

[The Dark Knight]

Not every take on the movie is positive. Midnight's Edge is agreeing with and amplifying Ryan Kinel from RK Outpost. And, to be fair, I do think there's a germ of truth to all this. I choose to see the positive in TB. But I also think this is a fair take on the movie.

This Midnight Edge admits he doesn't follow Batman comics, nor is he aware of the Zero Year flooding incident. However when it comes to subtext I think he has a point. But is it such a deal breaker that the movie falls apart, as he claims? No way. One opinion expressed by Selina doesn't tarnish the whole for me. Yes, the makeup of the city is what it is - but it doesn't feel like the movie makes a big song and dance about things. Those who dislike the last act make it seem like the movie feels completely disconnected from what came before, when to me it feels like an evolution across the board. It seems like Edge didn't want Batman's character evolution to take place. At least not here. I disagree with that line of thought.

[thecolorsblend]

How did I miss this post?! Anyway, here we go...

I'd be cool with him presenting a new take on Scarecrow though, as I was never a huge fan of Murphy's version.

There was a VERY minor baddie called Sleeper back in the Moench/Jones run on Batman from the Nineties. Details at https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_516.

I saw her as a sort of alternative to Scarecrow back then and nothing has changed. To be fair, Sleeper doesn't have the same marquee value that Scarecrow does. Hell, a relatively more obscure character like Deadshot is still more widely known than her. Sleeper is a deep cut if ever there was one.

Still, I always saw a lot of potential in the Sleeper character and she could fit into any number of different cinematic styles pretty easily. Plus, the nature of the gas she uses allows for weird and trippy visuals, which is never a bad thing for a comic book movie.

I'm not holding my breath, as it were, for Sleeper to ever be adapted into anything. But I do believe that a filmmaker could do a lot worse than look to her for inspiration, if nothing else. She's got zero baggage from previous incarnations and she is (or can be) a very flexible character as a result.

Perhaps even some more fantastical foes like Clayface, Man-Bat and Mister Freeze. But my top pick right now would be the Court of Owls.

Clayface, Man-Bat and a more Dini-like Mr. Freeze have been on my wish list for a long time now. I would understand if Reeves thinks Freeze still has some stink on him after B&R tho. Still, the first two are wide open to adaptation.

The one villain I absolutely positively do not want to appear is Harley Quinn. I've grown to hate that character in recent years, and her irritating brand of Deadpool-wannabe humour would be a poor fit for the serious tone of Reeves' films.

A million times this.

[The Dark Knight]

The Batman managed to integrate Riddler, Penguin and Catwoman organically. Hell, Falcone was the real focus and the movie wasn't jammed. I like the idea of Penguin (having roughly the same screen time as The Batman), with Mr Freeze and the Court of Owls as the primary focus. The Court of Owls saga had Freeze creating the regeneration serum and giving it to the Owls, only to be targeted for death, but later claiming revenge. There's also a moment where Freeze arrives at the Iceberg Lounge to pick up guns, before heading out. Keeping a classic hook while integrating modern elements would be a good balance. Allowing Freeze an overdue cinematic revamp much like Nolan did for Bane.

[Silver Nemesis]

There was a VERY minor baddie called Sleeper back in the Moench/Jones run on Batman from the Nineties. Details at https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_516.

I saw her as a sort of alternative to Scarecrow back then and nothing has changed. To be fair, Sleeper doesn't have the same marquee value that Scarecrow does. Hell, a relatively more obscure character like Deadshot is still more widely known than her. Sleeper is a deep cut if ever there was one.

Still, I always saw a lot of potential in the Sleeper character and she could fit into any number of different cinematic styles pretty easily. Plus, the nature of the gas she uses allows for weird and trippy visuals, which is never a bad thing for a comic book movie.

I'm not holding my breath, as it were, for Sleeper to ever be adapted into anything. But I do believe that a filmmaker could do a lot worse than look to her for inspiration, if nothing else. She's got zero baggage from previous incarnations and she is (or can be) a very flexible character as a result.

It's been a long, long time since I read those issues, so I can't say I remember Sleeper too clearly. But it's an interesting idea. Using a lesser known villain, and one with comparatively few comic appearances, would give Reeves more freedom to reinvent the character. Another alternative to using Scarecrow would be Hugo Strange, who was the first Batman villain to deploy some variation of fear toxin. Strange used 'fear dust' way back in 'Professor's Strange's Fear Dust' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #46, December 1940), over 26 years before Crane used his own fear toxin for the first time in 'Fright of the Scarecrow' (Batman Vol 1 #189, February 1967).

Just to clarify, I don't dislike Murphy's Scarecrow at all. He was perfectly serviceable as a secondary villain in those films. But there's obviously a lot more that could be done with the character if he were the main antagonist. I wouldn't object to seeing a new version of him. But since we've already seen a gritty and grounded Scarecrow appear in three previous films, I'd say he ranks low on my wishlist compared to certain other characters.

The Batman managed to integrate Riddler, Penguin and Catwoman organically. Hell, Falcone was the real focus and the movie wasn't jammed. I like the idea of Penguin (having roughly the same screen time as The Batman), with Mr Freeze and the Court of Owls as the primary focus. The Court of Owls saga had Freeze creating the regeneration serum and giving it to the Owls, only to be targeted for death, but later claiming revenge. There's also a moment where Freeze arrives at the Iceberg Lounge to pick up guns, before heading out. Keeping a classic hook while integrating modern elements would be a good balance. Allowing Freeze an overdue cinematic revamp much like Nolan did for Bane.

That's a great idea. If the Court of Owls are the antagonists in the next movie, then Freeze's connection to them would provide the perfect context for him to appear as a secondary villain. The Riddler's dark makeover was long overdue, and so is Freeze's. Let's keep our fingers crossed that Reeves is thinking along a similar line.

Speaking of characters that should appear in the sequel, isn't it about time Harold Allnut showed up in a live action movie?

I think he'd fit in rather well with the world Reeves has created. They've already teased Hush, the villain responsible for killing Harold in the comics, so why not bring in Harold himself? His expertise as a mechanic would offer a fresh explanation for where Bruce gets his vehicles, rather than having him rely on WayneTech R&D again like in the Nolanverse.

But as far as villains go for The Batman 2, right now I'm rooting for the Court of Owls and Mister Freeze. And if they delve deeper into the storyline about Falcone and the Wayne murders then they could also bring in Lew Moxon and Joe Chill as associates of the Penguin. I'd be very happy with that line-up of villains.

[thecolorsblend]

If Wikipedia is to be believed, TB is part 1 of a new film trilogy. No idea if a trilogy is a good thing. But if that's the way things go then a trilogy usually features an introductory chapter to establish characters, times and settings, a second chapter that turns the first chapter on its head and then a third chapter that revisits/recontextualizes the first chapter.

If that's so then the Court of Owls might be best saved for TB3.

[The Dark Knight]

The Penguin show has officially been ordered. I'm more excited about this project at the moment than the Flash. Anything to do with the Reeves universe to be honest. I think there's more than enough material for them to justify this. Revealing Oz'z past while moving forward with turf wars, becoming a securer of equipment for others. There's also scope to introduce other characters into the mix.

As someone who likes musical montages, Something in the Way was effectively done. Particularly at the end during the flood rescue. I'm not against having another Nirvana song in the next movie. I'd go with Lithium.

It still has a melancholic edge but has the illusion of being more hopeful. In my scenario it would be played in the context of Bruce preparing to meet Wayne Enterprises executives. Nirvana songs aren't really about the lyrics but the overall mood. But I think these lyrics are quite relevant. Nirvana's sound does capture Pattinson's vibe.

[Silver Nemesis]

If Wikipedia is to be believed, TB is part 1 of a new film trilogy. No idea if a trilogy is a good thing. But if that's the way things go then a trilogy usually features an introductory chapter to establish characters, times and settings, a second chapter that turns the first chapter on its head and then a third chapter that revisits/recontextualizes the first chapter.

If that's so then the Court of Owls might be best saved for TB3.

I thought Hush might be a good adversary to save for the third film. Make the mystery of what happened between Edward Elliot, the Waynes and Falcone the through line that connects the three films, then have the mystery come to a head in the final entry when Elliot's relation steps up to seek revenge against Bruce.

On the other hand, one advantage to saving the Court of Owls for the final film is that they could then use the second to build up the Bat-Family and incorporate the Night of the Owls storyline into the third.

As someone who likes musical montages, Something in the Way was effectively done. Particularly at the end during the flood rescue. I'm not against having another Nirvana song in the next movie. I'd go with Lithium.

It still has a melancholic edge but has the illusion of being more hopeful. In my scenario it would be played in the context of Bruce preparing to meet Wayne Enterprises executives. Nirvana songs aren't really about the lyrics but the overall mood. But I think these lyrics are quite relevant. Nirvana's sound does capture Pattinson's vibe.

When I first heard that the Nirvana song was going to be used throughout the movie I was afraid it would be cheesy or intrusive. But it actually worked really well, complementing Giacchino's moody score and contributing to the overall ambience. It was stuck in my head for hours after I left the cinema.

[The Dark Knight]

I'm excited about a visually consistent Gotham City, with the only difference being the season. Imagine the second film set during winter with snow and ice galore, amplifying the presence of Mr Freeze if he were used.

I agree about Hush being in a movie, possibly the third. Reeves has expressed interest in the character. It would bring things back to Thomas, particularly as the first movie makes a point about him being a doctor and adhering to a hippocratic oath. Which is also what Bruce is trying to do with his no kill rule. Heart of Hush would be a good place to look. Removing Selina's heart and a race to recover it, culminating in a batcave confrontation where Robin assists. This ordeal would bond Bruce and Selina together in a bigger way for a finale, even if things don't work out between them.

When I first heard that the Nirvana song was going to be used throughout the movie I was afraid it would be cheesy or intrusive. But it actually worked really well, complementing Giacchino's moody score and contributing to the overall ambience. It was stuck in my head for hours after I left the cinema.

I'm a child of the 90s. Kurt is a haunting figure in the sense his presence was felt throughout that time and people became big fans, but he was already gone. Nirvana felt ever present and current by were an echo. I'm going back to their music as a result of Something in the Way. Kurt lived a tortured life and that artistry comes across in his work. It's sad how things worked out for him, but then he wouldn't be Kurt Cobain. Again, I'm interested in keeping the Nirvana/Cobain influence for this series.

[Silver Nemesis]

Here are some interesting quotes from Reeves concerning which villains he might adapt for the sequels. Apparently he is keen to use Hush, but has hinted that he might save him for a later film.

"I think Hush is a really interesting one to do. I'll choose Hush. That doesn't mean that the next [movie villain] will be Hush. I just want to say, there are so many."

https://screenrant.com/the-batman-movie-sequel-villain-hush-matt-reeves/

He's also keen on using Mister Freeze.

"In my view, I just feel drawn to finding the grounded version of everything. So to me it would be a challenge in an interesting way to try and figure out how that could happen, even the idea of something like Mr. Freeze, that such a great story, right? I think there's actually a grounded version of that story, which could be really powerful and could be really great. So, I love the fantastical side of Batman, but this iteration, obviously, while being, to me, I think it is very comics faithful, but I don't think that this one is necessarily, it doesn't lean as hard into the fantastical, I guess. But I think to me what would be interesting would be to try and unwind the fantastical and see, well, how could that make sense here? And so that's kind of my view, how I see it."

https://collider.com/the-batman-sequel-mr-freeze-matt-reeves-comments/

[Travesty]

I can easily see a more "realistic" Clayface in this.