TNBA Joker re-color, BTAS style

[The Laughing Fish]

Somebody edited the Joker to make him resemble his look from BTAS, in this scene from the TNBA episode Holiday Knights. It's a great effort.

This is how his updated design for TNBA should've been. It retains the original look, while at the same time it still would've been just as simple to animate. The Joker's facial features still change without much reason, i.e. his chin going from squared to triangular, but this redesign would've had better continuity leading up to JL and BB:ROTJ than TNBA did.

[The Joker]

That's a pretty good edit.

While I can't say that I find TNBA's redesign of the Joker to be the most egregious (still think the TNBA's Riddler has that one all to himself), something like this would have been much more in line and flowed better with Harley Quinn (Two-Face and Clayface as well), where the TNBA redesign is there, but not to a dramatic extent like what we ended up with.

[The Laughing Fish]

The same editor made another version of that scene, this time incorporating the same colours from BB:ROTJ.

After watching how these videos add these extra details to the Joker's face, I'm convinced the TNBA design for him was inspired by laziness rather than saving time and budget.

still think the TNBA's Riddler has that one all to himself

Yeah, that Riddler redesign left a lot to be desired too. I can see how they wanted to redeem that green spandex look from the comics, but the removal of the domino mask and retaining the bowler hat didn't fit.

Although as much as I prefer the original BTAS design for Riddler, I admit he looks unoriginal if you compare him to the Clock King, because the way they dress is very similar. The strangest detail about the Riddler in BTAS is the cane is as generic as they come, whereas in TNBA it's shaped as a question mark. The Clock King, on the other hand, probably even looks more outlandish with his clock hand cane and clock glasses.

I guess what I'm saying is Clock King's design is more imaginative than either version of the Riddler.

[Slash Man]

No surprise, the BTAS colors look best, and even bring out the subtleties of the animation better. The eyes are that much more expressive. It's also a bit of my bias that I like the '89-style orange and purple versus the classic green and purple.

Yeah, that Riddler redesign left a lot to be desired too. I can see how they wanted to redeem that green spandex look from the comics, but the removal of the domino mask and retaining the bowler hat didn't fit.

Although as much as I prefer the original BTAS design for Riddler, I admit he looks unoriginal if you compare him to the Clock King, because the way they dress is very similar. The strangest detail about the Riddler in BTAS is the cane is as generic as they come, whereas in TNBA it's shaped as a question mark. The Clock King, on the other hand, probably even looks more outlandish with his clock hand cane and clock glasses.

I guess what I'm saying is Clock King's design is more imaginative than either version of the Riddler.

True, I've expressed before that the suited Riddler has become overdone. Which is why I welcomed the return of the spandex suit Riddler, but the TNBA design took simplicity to the extreme. Removing the eyebrows, mask, and hair was way too much (even if they didn't want to draw all the question marks). Riddler's classic look was already well established in the 80s, not even changing that much from his original design.


Clock King also got a great redesign. I think he was pretty recognizable from his classic appearances, but the clock glasses were an instant classic.

[thecolorsblend]

The intent behind that TNBA redesign was apparently to make the Joker look more skull-like. I guess someone eventually regretted that decision because subsequent designs veered closer to the original BTAS version.

I regard TNBA's Joker to be a noble failure. They tried taking the character in a different direction. No, it wasn't completely successful. But it was worth doing, I think.

[The Laughing Fish]

The YouTube channel that uploaded those videos did a little switch with the colours in this shot of the Joker in BTAS.



At best, the TNBA Joker looks ghostly. But it's still nowhere near as good as the original design.

True, I've expressed before that the suited Riddler has become overdone. Which is why I welcomed the return of the spandex suit Riddler, but the TNBA design took simplicity to the extreme. Removing the eyebrows, mask, and hair was way too much (even if they didn't want to draw all the question marks). Riddler's classic look was already well established in the 80s, not even changing that much from his original design.

The only reason I could think of why they simplified the Riddler so much in TNBA was because they saw no need to put in so much effort in giving him so much detail if he was going to be relegated to making cameos. I heard the budget was one of the reasons why they redesigned a lot of the characters in TNBA, and maybe simplicity with the new characters' appearances helped speed up the production. After all, it was documented the showrunners were sometimes dissatisfied with the quality of the animation that some of the studios were producing for BTAS.

[Slash Man]

The only reason I could think of why they simplified the Riddler so much in TNBA was because they saw no need to put in so much effort in giving him so much detail if he was going to be relegated to making cameos. I heard the budget was one of the reasons why they redesigned a lot of the characters in TNBA, and maybe simplicity with the new characters' appearances helped speed up the production. After all, it was documented the showrunners were sometimes dissatisfied with the quality of the animation that some of the studios were producing for BTAS.

This could be my interpretation, but it seems like TNBA was ended far before its time, and the show runners didn't get to realize most of their plans. Commentary talks about Riddler's redesign, and how it was done to make him a more physical presence in the future. That much makes sense for putting him into a more active costume. Only problem is we never saw him trade blows with Batman like this. Only a little bit of fighting with Robin in the Superman crossover.

[The Joker]

Yeah, that Riddler redesign left a lot to be desired too. I can see how they wanted to redeem that green spandex look from the comics, but the removal of the domino mask and retaining the bowler hat didn't fit.

Although as much as I prefer the original BTAS design for Riddler, I admit he looks unoriginal if you compare him to the Clock King, because the way they dress is very similar. The strangest detail about the Riddler in BTAS is the cane is as generic as they come, whereas in TNBA it's shaped as a question mark. The Clock King, on the other hand, probably even looks more outlandish with his clock hand cane and clock glasses.

I guess what I'm saying is Clock King's design is more imaginative than either version of the Riddler.

You know, I never really thought too much about BTAS Riddler and Clock King looking a tad similar, but yeah, there's some striking similarities. I do remember assuming that the Riddler having a question mark cane by the time of TNBA was from probable "Batman Forever" influence. After that movie, the Riddler reappearing with a ordinary cane would almost be a crime in itself.

Clock King also got a great redesign. I think he was pretty recognizable from his classic appearances, but the clock glasses were an instant classic.

I don't think I was at all familiar with the Clock King before I saw him on BTAS to be perfectly honest. If I ever saw him on the Adam West series, being such a young age at the time, I probably assumed he was just another one of the shows original villains made for celebrities of the time. Hell, I might have thought the same thing after BTAS episode "The Clock King" as well. Thinking he was a villain created for the animated series and not originating from the source material. I do remember realizing the Clock King was actually from the comics, when a picture of him appeared in one of Wizard Magazine's "Specials" that focused entirely on comic book villains ("Dark Book" I think was the title), but it was this version ...



I think Wizard even catagorized Clock King as a "lame" villain among others. With that outfit, I can understand why, though I appreciated his appearance in "Batman Brave and the Bold" being very similar to this one. However, BTAS version of Clock King is definitive to me. One of my favorite episodes actually.

The intent behind that TNBA redesign was apparently to make the Joker look more skull-like. I guess someone eventually regretted that decision because subsequent designs veered closer to the original BTAS version.

I regard TNBA's Joker to be a noble failure. They tried taking the character in a different direction. No, it wasn't completely successful. But it was worth doing, I think.

The YouTube channel that uploaded those videos did a little switch with the colours in this shot of the Joker in BTAS.



At best, the TNBA Joker looks ghostly. But it's still nowhere near as good as the original design.

Agreed on the original design being untouchable. TNBA Joker, whether the intent was to make him skull like or ghostly just comes a bit too close to Mr. Freeze's redesign in TNBA. Like even in the above picture, take away the hair and smile, and that Joker could very well come across like a Fries sibling.

The only reason I could think of why they simplified the Riddler so much in TNBA was because they saw no need to put in so much effort in giving him so much detail if he was going to be relegated to making cameos. I heard the budget was one of the reasons why they redesigned a lot of the characters in TNBA, and maybe simplicity with the new characters' appearances helped speed up the production. After all, it was documented the showrunners were sometimes dissatisfied with the quality of the animation that some of the studios were producing for BTAS.

This could be my interpretation, but it seems like TNBA was ended far before its time, and the show runners didn't get to realize most of their plans. Commentary talks about Riddler's redesign, and how it was done to make him a more physical presence in the future. That much makes sense for putting him into a more active costume. Only problem is we never saw him trade blows with Batman like this. Only a little bit of fighting with Robin in the Superman crossover.

I can buy either/or explanation for the Riddler's redsign in TNBA, but either way, it just comes across as glaringly half baked. I mean, I can go with the idea of having the Riddler become a physical presence for a one-and-done episode (perhaps something influenced by an issue of Batman that lead up to Knightfall where Bane injected Riddler with the venom serum), but to have the Riddler remain a physical presence for an extended amount of time (multiple episodes) is a really suspect place to take the character. I don't know. Perhaps the execution would have been more satisfactory than what it sounds like? However, if the idea was for the Riddler to just be regulated to simple cameos for TNBA then-foreseeable future, then yeah, I guess I can at least understand the depthless TNBA redesign he ended up with.

Still no excuse for such a horrendous redesign. Just slightly more coherent in trying to get an idea of the thinking at the time.

[The Dark Knight]

The intent behind that TNBA redesign was apparently to make the Joker look more skull-like. I guess someone eventually regretted that decision because subsequent designs veered closer to the original BTAS version.

I regard TNBA's Joker to be a noble failure. They tried taking the character in a different direction. No, it wasn't completely successful. But it was worth doing, I think.

I prefer the BTAS designs but don't hate the redesigns from a storytelling point of view. The DCAU is a long-term continuity, showing us the most complete character arc of Batman to date. The redesigns help signify time has passed and the characters have changed. They're not exactly the same people they were at the start. They're older and more mature. Whether or not the redesigns hit the mark is for the individual to decide. Scarecrow and Bane are obvious improvements.

[The Laughing Fish]

Here is a picture comparing the shot from Holiday Knights to various Joker colours in the DCAU, including a combined mix of colours by the editor.

BTAS version of Clock King is definitive to me. One of my favorite episodes actually.

I agree, it's in my top ten favourite episodes. If Mr. Freeze's backstory is the most tragic of the series then Clock King's backstory is the funniest. To swear vengeance against someone whose crime was merely trying to give you helpful advice because your day was full of bad luck will forever be comical. 

Agreed on the original design being untouchable. TNBA Joker, whether the intent was to make him skull like or ghostly just comes a bit too close to Mr. Freeze's redesign in TNBA. Like even in the above picture, take away the hair and smile, and that Joker could very well come across like a Fries sibling.

True. Even if TNBA Joker had kept his red lips, I reckon he still loses a lot of expression with those black eyes with the white pupils. It's a lifeless redesign no matter how you try to defend it. It would make sense for a grim villain like Mr. Freeze, but Joker should still be vibrant.

But if they really wanted to go through this ghostly look at some point in the DCAU, it might've made more sense in BB:ROTJ, when Joker was revived in Tim Drake's body.