What If Tim Burton Directed Batman Forever?

[Kamdan]

[eledoremassis02]

Funny enough I'm watching the Batmobile documentary and they were talking about the Forever Batmobile and getting around the ears getting stuck issue. They used a Keaton mask to make sure the ears wouldn't get stuck.

So here is a "Burton" Batman in a Schumacher car

[Silver Nemesis]

It sounds like Burton isn't a fan of the bat-nipples.

"[Back then] they went the other way. That's the funny thing about it. But then I was like, 'Wait a minute. Okay. Hold on a second here. You complain about me, I'm too weird, I'm too dark, and then you put nipples on the costume? Go f*** yourself.' Seriously. So yeah, I think that's why I didn't end up [doing a third film]..."

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/tim-burton-on-batman-forever-nipple-suit-go-f-yourself/

[The Joker]

It sounds like Burton isn't a fan of the bat-nipples.

"[Back then] they went the other way. That's the funny thing about it. But then I was like, 'Wait a minute. Okay. Hold on a second here. You complain about me, I'm too weird, I'm too dark, and then you put nipples on the costume? Go f*** yourself.' Seriously. So yeah, I think that's why I didn't end up [doing a third film]..."

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/tim-burton-on-batman-forever-nipple-suit-go-f-yourself/

LMAO

No, wait. Tell us how you really feel, Tim! 

Can't say I blame Burton for feeling a little salty about his loss over the franchise due to reasons that were rather frivolous in the grand scheme of things, even though he has projected the feeling in the past that he wasn't too terribly bothered by it at the time, so who knows? Maybe seeing/knowing Keaton's back in the batsuit has rustled up some suppressed feelings on the matter.

[The Laughing Fish]

LMAO

No, wait. Tell us how you really feel, Tim! 

Can't say I blame Burton for feeling a little salty about his loss over the franchise due to reasons that were rather frivolous in the grand scheme of things, even though he has projected the feeling in the past that he wasn't too terribly bothered by it at the time, so who knows? Maybe seeing/knowing Keaton's back in the batsuit has rustled up some suppressed feelings on the matter.

I'd like to know what he thinks about Keaton's Batman getting retconned.

[Andrew]

Everyone seems to assume it would have Two-Face just from that BF did actually have him and I guess that they like Billy Dee Williams, Burton doing Two-Face kind of makes sense but with him not bringing back Dent at all in BR I think indicates he had very much lost interest in the character and/or in Williams as him. I think Burton just doing Riddler, and/or maybe Scarecrow or Ivy in a third film would be more likely. It also makes sense that Burton, even liking Freeze, would not want to do another icy villain/theme back to back after BR.

[Silver Nemesis]

Yes, it's unlikely that Billy Dee Williams would have played Two-Face in Burton's third Batman flick. I'm open to correction on this, but I'm sure I read somewhere that Williams' contract for the first Batman film stipulated he would play Two-Face in the next movie, and so when the studio decided not to use the character in Batman Returns they had to buy him out of that contract.

Looking back on it now, Batman '89 was clearly positioning Two-Face to be the villain in the sequel. There's the whole subplot about Dent in the movie itself, but also a conspicuous amount of Two-Face imagery in the Prince music videos.

This is one of the many reasons why I think the Batman '89 comic should have ignored Batman Returns and taken place immediately after the events of the original movie.

Contrary to what various online sources claim, Dent was never featured in any of the Batman II scripts. Daniel Waters said that he and Burton might have briefly discussed the idea once, but that it never progressed any further than that.

The Batman III script Burton commissioned from Lee and Janet Scott Batchler featured the Riddler as the only antagonist. The Batchlers said they wrote the part with Robin Williams in mind. I believe it was Schumacher's idea to cast Jim Carrey instead. The studio had wanted DeVito to play the Penguin, and Burton had been happy to go along with that. I expect he would have been happy with Williams too if that was what the studio had wanted.

It was definitely Schumacher's idea to use Two-Face and to cast Tommy Lee Jones, whom he had previously worked with on The Client (1994). The studio requested a second villain and left it up to Schumacher to select which one. It's reasonable to assume they would have made a similar request of Burton, but I doubt he would have picked Two-Face. If he was interested in Dent, he would have brought him back for Batman Returns.

Numerous sites claim that Burton wanted Brad Dourif to play Scarecrow, but Dourif himself has debunked this. He confirmed that he met Burton on a plane once, and that Tim expressed admiration for his acting, but he denied being offered a role by him.

Around the mid-nineties Burton went through a phase where he seemed fascinated with 1950s sci-fi b-movies. He made two consecutive films connected with that subject: Ed Wood (1994) and Mars Attacks (1996). I imagine the Riddler imagery in his Batman III would have followed a similar retro-futuristic trajectory. He might have had brainwashed zombie Riddler goons with electrodes sticking out of their skulls, or a villain hideout filled with lightning conductors, plasma globes and other items of mad scientist lab equipment.

Which secondary villain would have fit with this 1950s b-movie motif? Mad Hatter perhaps? Or maybe he would have been too similar to the Riddler. Burton's said Catwoman is his favourite Batman villain, so perhaps he might have brought Pfeiffer back. Alternatively, he might have gone for a different female villain. In which case I think he might have taken a Day of the Triffids approach and chosen Poison Ivy. If so, green would have been the dominant colour in Batman III. Only it would have been a murky green, similar to the cinematography in The City of Lost Children (1995), Dark City (1998) and The Matrix (1999).

Burton was still in his prime back then. Provided his enthusiasm and creativity were sufficiently engaged, he could have delivered something special with Batman III.

[The Joker]

Yes, it's unlikely that Billy Dee Williams would have played Two-Face in Burton's third Batman flick. I'm open to correction on this, but I'm sure I read somewhere that Williams' contract for the first Batman film stipulated he would play Two-Face in the next movie, and so when the studio decided not to use the character in Batman Returns they had to buy him out of that contract.

Looking back on it now, Batman '89 was clearly positioning Two-Face to be the villain in the sequel. There's the whole subplot about Dent in the movie itself, but also a conspicuous amount of Two-Face imagery in the Prince music videos.

This is one of the many reasons why I think the Batman '89 comic should have ignored Batman Returns and taken place immediately after the events of the original movie.

Contrary to what various online sources claim, Dent was never featured in any of the Batman II scripts. Daniel Waters said that he and Burton might have briefly discussed the idea once, but that it never progressed any further than that.

True. In 1992, I can see Billy Dee returning as Harvey Dent/Two-Face for BR. By 1995, Billy Dee Williams being brought back as Two-Face always seemed like a bit of a stretch to me. As it was, by that time, more of a situation where Billy Dee needed the film, more than the film needed him. As I don't really recall Billy Dee being featured in any high profile films between 1989-1995, and the mindset at Warner Bros., was decidedly to get a "name" for the villains in a Batman sequel. Something to which Peter Gruber briefly spoke about in one of the documentaries found on the special edition of Batman '89. Where the idea, was that high profile actors would find being cast as the next Batman villain more attractive, in order to follow in the footsteps of Jack Nicholson.

The Batman III script Burton commissioned from Lee and Janet Scott Batchler featured the Riddler as the only antagonist. The Batchlers said they wrote the part with Robin Williams in mind. I believe it was Schumacher's idea to cast Jim Carrey instead. The studio had wanted DeVito to play the Penguin, and Burton had been happy to go along with that. I expect he would have been happy with Williams too if that was what the studio had wanted.

Joel Schumacher did claim in a video interview that he approached Robin Williams several times about playing the Riddler for "Batman Forever", once it was a done deal that Schumacher would replace Burton, with Williams responding, "I'd love to!", but never fully committing to signing on. This go around happened a few more times with Williams, until (I assume) the deadline to get the Riddler cast was coming up, and then Jim Carrey got offered the gig. According to Schumacher, Williams never outright turned down the part, but wouldn't make any strong overtures about signing on either. Leaving Schumacher in limbo until a decision needed to be made.

Burton was still in his prime back then. Provided his enthusiasm and creativity were sufficiently engaged, he could have delivered something special with Batman III.

Yes indeed. One of the great "what if's".

[Andrew]

Joel Schumacher did claim in a video interview that he approached Robin Williams several times about playing the Riddler for "Batman Forever", once it was a done deal that Schumacher would replace Burton, with Williams responding, "I'd love to!", but never fully committing to signing on. This go around happened a few more times with Williams, until (I assume) the deadline to get the Riddler cast was coming up, and then Jim Carrey got offered the gig. According to Schumacher, Williams never outright turned down the part, but wouldn't make any strong overtures about signing on either. Leaving Schumacher in limbo until a decision needed to be made.

It makes sense that Williams liked the Riddler but was still irked and wanted apology for how WB dealt with him in, gave and took away Joker in B89.

[Kamdan]

Looking back on it now, Batman '89 was clearly positioning Two-Face to be the villain in the sequel. There's the whole subplot about Dent in the movie itself, but also a conspicuous amount of Two-Face imagery in the Prince music videos.

Always wondered if Burton thought that the Alicia character was his own way of handling the Two-Face character, as both characters involve an acid scarred face.

It makes sense that Williams liked the Riddler but was still irked and wanted apology for how WB dealt with him in, gave and took away Joker in B89.

Williams was famously pissed off at Disney for the marketing of Aladdin emphasizing on him when he was supposed to be very low key. He apparently forgave and forgot by subsequently appearing in Flubber and reprising the role of the Genie for the third direct to video sequel.

I believe that Williams wasn't wanting an apology for something he understood completely that Jack was meant to play The Joker and he thought he had more buying power by holding out as long as he did for playing The Riddler, but similar to how Rene Russo had to be recasted, Michael Keaton finally turning down the role meant another casting approach had to be made to accommodate. Jim Carrey was the natural choice and Williams once again lost out.