Joel Schumacher’s Batman Forever - A Misunderstood Masterpiece (Video Essay)

[eledoremassis02]

Worth the runtime! Picked up on stuff I didn't before (namely around the Riddlers character)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uMLIs4vN84&feature=emb_title
Nice seeing this movie get some love now.

[The Laughing Fish]

This YouTube channel has a history of Burton/Snyder Batman hate and hypocritical complaints over Batman killing on film. Pass.

[BatmanFurst]

Worth the runtime! Picked up on stuff I didn't before (namely around the Riddlers character)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uMLIs4vN84&feature=emb_title
Nice seeing this movie get some love now.

I watched the video. It's entertaining and the poster of the video makes some good points. I don't share his enthusiasm though. Batman Forever is a film I have a lot of nostalgia for, and I can put it on every once and a while to enjoy. My problem is without the pay off that was cut out of the film it feels somewhat shallow. Also, I disagree on this dudes assessment of Kilmer's performance. I don't think he's anywhere near Keaton in the role. Kilmer has his moments and I don't think he's terrible but I do agree with the criticism that his performance (especially as Wayne) is forgettable.

Also, I'm surprised that this guy just glosses over a major problem I've had with Robin. I like the symbolism of Batman having to decide between Bruce Wayne (Chase) and Batman (Robin). So from that perspective Robin is needed to conclude Bruce's arc. What I don't like though is how completely useless Robin is in the final battle. You could take Robin out of that final section and nothing would change.

[Gotham Knight]

This YouTube channel has a history of Burton/Snyder Batman hate and hypocritical complaints over Batman killing on film. Pass.

Seconded. Can't stand the guy.

[The Dark Knight]

I like the symbolism of Batman having to decide between Bruce Wayne (Chase) and Batman (Robin). So from that perspective Robin is needed to conclude Bruce's arc. What I don't like though is how completely useless Robin is in the final battle. You could take Robin out of that final section and nothing would change.

Robin's not a physical threat in the finale, that much is true. His role is more psychological. When Dick suits up as Robin he tells Batman "I can't promise I won't kill Harvey." When he's in the heat of battle and given a serious chance to kill him, it becomes "I'd rather see you in jail." That's an important mental transition for him to make, regardless of how satisfied he may be when Dent hits the rocks. He had mental peace before that moment, but the death really sets him free. And he didn't need to dirty his hands for it.

[BatmanFurst]

I like the symbolism of Batman having to decide between Bruce Wayne (Chase) and Batman (Robin). So from that perspective Robin is needed to conclude Bruce's arc. What I don't like though is how completely useless Robin is in the final battle. You could take Robin out of that final section and nothing would change.

Robin's not a physical threat in the finale, that much is true. His role is more psychological. When Dick suits up as Robin he tells Batman "I can't promise I won't kill Harvey." When he's in the heat of battle and given a serious chance to kill him, it becomes "I'd rather see you in jail." That's an important mental transition for him to make, regardless of how satisfied he may be when Dent hits the rocks. He had mental peace before that moment, but the death really sets him free. And he didn't need to dirty his hands for it.

Yes I agree that moment is important. I do like that psychologically it proves that he's worthy to stand by Batman's side. Just wish they would've shown that in a physical sense as well.

[BatmanFurst]

This YouTube channel has a history of Burton/Snyder Batman hate and hypocritical complaints over Batman killing on film. Pass.

I'm iffy on his opinions to the Batman films as well. In particular his Batman 89 vid is just very annoying in how it glosses over certain things and cherry picks certain elements to make a point. That's probably the worst video I've seen from him. However, his vids on the Raimi Spider-Man trilogy are really good, and highly recommended. His video on Spider-Man 3 in particular just echos thoughts I've had about that film for years now.

[The Laughing Fish]

This YouTube channel has a history of Burton/Snyder Batman hate and hypocritical complaints over Batman killing on film. Pass.

However, his vids on the Raimi Spider-Man trilogy are really good, and highly recommended.

I'm not giving any of HiTop's videos a click, sorry.

[The Dark Knight]

I like the symbolism of Batman having to decide between Bruce Wayne (Chase) and Batman (Robin). So from that perspective Robin is needed to conclude Bruce's arc. What I don't like though is how completely useless Robin is in the final battle. You could take Robin out of that final section and nothing would change.

Robin's not a physical threat in the finale, that much is true. His role is more psychological. When Dick suits up as Robin he tells Batman "I can't promise I won't kill Harvey." When he's in the heat of battle and given a serious chance to kill him, it becomes "I'd rather see you in jail." That's an important mental transition for him to make, regardless of how satisfied he may be when Dent hits the rocks. He had mental peace before that moment, but the death really sets him free. And he didn't need to dirty his hands for it.

Yes I agree that moment is important. I do like that psychologically it proves that he's worthy to stand by Batman's side. Just wish they would've shown that in a physical sense as well.

I'd have everything play out as depicted but include goons for Robin to dispatch before encountering Two-Face.

[Andrew]

I've pretty much always thought BF Riddler was an at least interesting character, themes, story.

His praise of Kilmer Bruce is OK, though I think a lot of the character themes including wanting romantic relationship were pretty much already done, better, by Keaton and I actually think the cut resolution of Bruce doesn't have to feel guilty, it's not his fault, the parents wanted to go to the movies anyway, is too easy and underwhelming (that he feels survivor guilt, and or more so responsibility, regardless of the specifics is actually better).