Batman '89 (2021)

Started by Silver Nemesis, Tue, 16 Feb 2021, 21:05

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Tue, 14 Sep 2021, 11:17 #261 Last Edit: Tue, 14 Sep 2021, 11:23 by The Dark Knight
Issue #2 is longer with more going on. It blows up the Burtonverse ballon a lot, while I think retaining the source material's spirit. For example, the opening sequence being a twist on his Axis escape.

Bruce as a philanthropist, spurred on by the death of a youngster, and his own personal experience with gun violence. This kills two birds with one stone: making Bruce more of a public business figure, while commenting again on his origins.
Bruce wears a balaclava and keeps batarangs in the boot. Feels like a straightforward way to solve the Batman appearing in daylight issue. He's getting involved in minor situations while still maintaining the mystique of the batsuit - by not wearing it.
The giant coin is moved into the cave. Not sure how I feel about such a concept being adapted in a more serious universe, but I'll go with it. It could tie in well with Two-Face in this particular story.
It seems like the Batman inspired gangs burn down the garage. Harvey runs inside and will blame Batman for inspiring their vigilantism.
Catwoman is still slicing up faces and is on good terms with Batman.

Some thoughts on the second issue.

It's nice to see the Shreck family get a mention. Will Chip appear in a later issue?

Dent continues to be the central focus of the story, which is consistent with the villains taking centre stage in the Burton movies. I'm enjoying his storyline so far and looking forward to seeing how his villainous side manifests in the upcoming issues. The final panel showing the liquid trickling towards his face felt like a nod to Nolan's The Dark Knight.

The Batman copycats are another plot point salvaged from Hamm's Batman II script, while Bruce wearing a balaclava in daytime harkens back to a deleted sequence from his original Batman '89 screenplay. The idea of Bruce becoming more socially aware and using his wealth to help the city's disadvantaged reflects another subplot in Hamm's Batman II script.

The political themes are a tad predicable so far and pretty much what you'd expect from a modern US comic: all the criminals, street thugs and looters are portrayed as white, and blame for racial inequality is placed solely on systemic inequity (as opposed to presenting a more nuanced and complex analysis of the various socioeconomic and cultural causes).

Not too much to say about Selina yet. We knew she was returning thanks to all the previews, so it wasn't a surprise. Hopefully we'll learn more about what she's been up to in the next issue.

I'm still not really feeling the visual character of Burton's Gotham yet, especially when compared to how well Jerry Ordway captured it in his adaptation of the 1989 film. It doesn't have the nightmarish atmosphere, there's little to no chiaroscuro lighting, and some of the fashions appear too modern and generic. Note how it was meant to be Halloween in the first issue, and yet all the trees in the second issue are covered in bright green leaves as though it were summertime. I'm also not keen on the way Keaton's face is drawn. He looks good in the cowl, but unmasked his head seems a little too thin and his features too aquiline.

The Robin storyline is intriguing. At this stage I'd like to know more about his background and personality. So far he's been very mysterious, but it's time we learnt more about him as a character. I expect we will in the next issue.


Overall, I thought it was an ok second issue. Not great, not bad. I think we'll get to the meat of the story in the next issue with Dent's transformation and a proper catch-up between Bruce and Selina.

I won't comment too much on specifics just yet, but I am very happy with how things are progressing. So far both issues feel like Sam Hamm's Batman more than Burton's, but that's okay. Sam Hamm unfiltered is still authentic to this universe in a way that only Hamm can provide, and while seeing Daniel Waters do another take would be special, Hamm is the architect of this universe and it feels right. No new addition feels like an interloper, rather it comes across as something we just didn't know yet. I wish Bruce had more opportunity to play with Keaton's charisma and humor, but the story being as dark and serious from the start doesn't afford much opportunity.

Catwoman seems very much in character so far, which was the one thing that really concerned me going in. Her appearance was brief, but it seems Hamm is willing to work with who Waters made her. Good. Also, did anyone else catch Bruce's slip up? Harvey and Barbara are a heartbeat away from having Batman's identity now. They were interrupted, and it seems Harvey is going to be Two Face before too long now. Two Face who knows who Batman is. I suspect that all the attention paid to the penny (which I thought was kinda weird at first) will pay off with an eventual visit to the Batcave.

All in all I'm super impressed and I love it.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Sep  2021, 14:15So far both issues feel like Sam Hamm's Batman more than Burton's, but that's okay.

That's a good way of describing it. The tone is very similar to Hamm's scripts before Burton had them revised.

One other thing to comment on in issue 2 – Dr. Q is clearly meant to be the Burtonverse Harleen Quinzel. Her presence lends weight to the rumours that the Joker might return later in the series.

Also to note, we have a general idea "when" this takes place as the PlayStation was released on September 9, 1995 in the U.S. This is also the same year that Batman Forever was released (which also had a bank robbery involving helicopters, two-face, and Halloween) so this is shaping up to be an interesting parallel. Not to mention the Sonar Suit Easter egg (which was already teased a few months ago).

Harvey's story continues to be of interest as he has the most fleshed out in terms on the general story (of which he's being pulled at both ends). He's not against white people (clearly) but also being portrayed as a sell out on both sides. It's a balancing act that, as we see, he might not won. It makes me wonder how his duel personality will be difference from other incarnations of the character. I really hope Billy Dee Williams is keeping up (I don't think he's once mentioned the comic on social media (if he knows about it?)

It should be noted that although he was refered to as Richard Drake in Quinones' original sketches, Robin has been officially identified as Drake Winston.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 14 Sep  2021, 15:33
The tone is very similar to Hamm's scripts before Burton had them revised.
That is true, but I'd rather him than some other random nobody who has no prior attachment whatsoever working on the Burton series. Which is what we have with Quinones. I generally do like his art, but agree that Ordway would have been the best option. His B89 adaption truly captured the dirt and decay of Furst's Gotham.

I always remember Keaton wanting to remove dialogue rather than add it - and as such I still think they're having Batman talk too much. If someone was in trouble I don't think he'd shout out "kid, over here!" He would simply make the rescue attempt and let his actions speak. Keaton's Batman would have to open up somewhat over time, but at the core he is a silent movie monster type.

That all said, a continuation isn't going to be perfect, especially when we consider our own visualizations of characters and unseen events. But I think they're getting more right than wrong.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 15 Sep  2021, 00:39
I always remember Keaton wanting to remove dialogue rather than add it - and as such I still think they're having Batman talk too much. If someone was in trouble I don't think he'd shout out "kid, over here!" He would simply make the rescue attempt and let his actions speak. Keaton's Batman would have to open up somewhat over time, but at the core he is a silent movie monster type.

Yeah that was a difference I was expecting. Based on everything I've read there are certain characteristics of Keaton's Batman that came about as they were filming. I suspected that the decision to cut Batman's dialogue down was one of those characteristics.

I read Hamm's script for the 89 film not too long ago and Batman talks a lot in that script. You almost have to view the Batman in this comic to be more of a continuation of the character from Hamm's scripts rather than the one we saw in live action. The only way it could've been a real continuation is if Burton and Keaton had input as well.

Having said all of that, I am enjoying this story so far.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 15 Sep  2021, 22:49
Yeah that was a difference I was expecting. Based on everything I've read there are certain characteristics of Keaton's Batman that came about as they were filming. I suspected that the decision to cut Batman's dialogue down was one of those characteristics.

I read Hamm's script for the 89 film not too long ago and Batman talks a lot in that script. You almost have to view the Batman in this comic to be more of a continuation of the character from Hamm's scripts rather than the one we saw in live action. The only way it could've been a real continuation is if Burton and Keaton had input as well.

Having said all of that, I am enjoying this story so far.
Indeed. Expanding Keatonman's character comes at the risk of making him into something generic, which he isn't. I'm open to seeing different things, but the translation should feel authentic and less of a sudden jump in tone. Especially since this comic isn't taking place very long after Returns. BTAS happened around the same time as B89-BR, but aesthetics and sound aside, they're different products. The Burton world has a specific edge – the world feels like a supernatural slum and its Batman and Bruce are very private. I hope they keep that in mind.