Batman '89 (2021)

[eledoremassis02]

Didnt catch him returing to the cave after the explostions in the last issue (really need to read these in one go). That seems odd, but it seems like he's checking his own history and still bogged by his guilt. I does shows Batmans obessevie nature, and is in part with the detecive scenes in 89 and Returns.

I love the unfinished painting of the Waynes and wish that gets ported over to the flash (but don't expect it too). It's another way of doing the red book.

I feel this story looses it's footing a bit because it's become mostly about politics and two side stories about Dent and Batman. I feel too much is going on and it needs more than 2 issues left.

I wonder if this will get a another run with different villans? If it does, I hope they learn from the mistakes of this run

[The Dark Knight]

Didnt catch him returing to the cave after the explostions in the last issue (really need to read these in one go). That seems odd, but it seems like he's checking his own history and still bogged by his guilt. I does shows Batmans obessevie nature, and is in part with the detecive scenes in 89 and Returns.

"The city is starting to burn," Batman says at the end of Issue #3 while overlooking the city, seeing flames and smoke rising from below. He then abandons his post as Gotham's guardian to feed a cat in the batcave. That's very hard for me to believe. It's nothing short of a disgrace. Batman's entire being is tied up in the wellbeing of his city. Nothing comes close to that mission. It's his obsession. It's especially disappointing when the comic was in dire need of some Batman action.

[eledoremassis02]

Didnt catch him returing to the cave after the explostions in the last issue (really need to read these in one go). That seems odd, but it seems like he's checking his own history and still bogged by his guilt. I does shows Batmans obessevie nature, and is in part with the detecive scenes in 89 and Returns.

"The city is starting to burn," Batman says at the end of Issue #3 while overlooking the city, seeing flames and smoke rising from below. He then abandons his post as Gotham's guardian to feed a cat in the batcave. That's very hard for me to believe. It's nothing short of a disgrace. Batman's entire being is tied up in the wellbeing of his city. Nothing comes close to that mission. It's his obsession. It's especially disappointing when the comic was in dire need of some Batman action.

Yea, that seems way off. Thinking about the comic, I feel like it's more of a first draft for a batman movie

[Silver Nemesis]

I don't have too much to add. It was another ok issue, but for me the series on the whole is shaping up to be a disappointment. We've had four out of six issues and there still isn't much of a central plot tying things together. The main villain (if indeed Two-Face is the main villain) still hasn't presented a clearly-stated objective. Batman still hasn't thrown a single punch or kick (so far the only hand-to-hand combat he's performed entailed Bruce throwing a cushion at Drake before suplexing him). There are still too many characters and separate plot strands that aren't coming together cohesively. Barbara's relationship with her father is still woefully underdeveloped. Selina's inclusion feels tacked on, as does Bullock's. Bruce lacks the taciturn intensity of his cinematic counterpart.

On the plus side, Two-Face looks great. His appearance is consistent with the other Burtonverse villains and I like to imagine that this is what he would have looked like had he appeared in the movies.

But the series as a whole just isn't really clicking with me. It's not terrible, but it could have been so much better. The Superman '78 comic feels truer to its respective universe and is doing a better job of telling a pacy story with a threatening villain and cliff-hanger endings that make you want to read the next issue. By contrast, the Batman '89 comic is just meandering along a seemingly directionless path. I know that Superman needs to save Metropolis from Brainiac in order to conclude the plot of the S78 comic, but I don't know what Batman needs to accomplish in order to resolve the storyline in the B89 comic. Because there isn't much of a storyline to begin with. This is where the lack of central plot and clearly-stated character objectives becomes a problem.

I also can't help thinking back over all the Burtonverse fan comics I've read over the years, many of which did a better job of capturing the look and feel of the movies than this official comic has. For example,

Batman Continues

Batman: Strange Shades

Batman Enigma

There was also that beautifully painted fan comic in which the Burton Batman faced Mr. Freeze, but I can't remember what it was called. It used to be in the site gallery, but it doesn't seem to be online anymore.

Anyway, to repeat something I said earlier in the thread, I think this series would have worked much better if it had been a straightforward sequel to the 1989 film that took place before the events of Batman Returns. Then they could have left out Barbara, Robin and Catwoman and just focused on the Two-Face storyline while utilising pre-established supporting players such as Vicki, Mayor Borg, Knox and Shreck.

The series could have taken place 6-12 months after the 1989 film, with Two-Face rising up to fill the gap in Gotham's underworld that was left by Grissom and the Joker. Two-Face could have assassinated Mayor Borg, Vicki's relationship with Bruce could have deteriorated to the extent that she leaves Gotham with Knox, and the series could have ended on an ominous note with the Red Triangle Gang arriving at the city limits. It could even have shown Max sending Fred Atkins on 'extended vacation'. Needless to say it would have required better pacing and tighter plotting than the series we got, and the art would have needed to more accurately reflect the visual style of the films. But I think it would have worked much better.

Instead the series we're getting – so far – feels bloated and unfocused, with too many characters and subplots. Maybe it'll pick up in the last two issues, but right now I feel it's shaping up to be a missed opportunity. I'm still undecided about whether or not to accept it as part of the canon.

"The city is starting to burn," Batman says at the end of Issue #3 while overlooking the city, seeing flames and smoke rising from below. He then abandons his post as Gotham's guardian to feed a cat in the batcave. That's very hard for me to believe. It's nothing short of a disgrace. Batman's entire being is tied up in the wellbeing of his city. Nothing comes close to that mission. It's his obsession. It's especially disappointing when the comic was in dire need of some Batman action.

That bothered me too. Every issue of the Superman '78 comic has ended on a cliff-hanger that set up the next part of the story, but the Batman '89 comic has no comparable dramatic hook tying the issues together. The ending of issue 3 made us think we were finally going to see Batman in a fight scene, but issue 4 never follows up on it. Then issue 4 itself ends on a rather flat scene of Bruce and Drake talking in the Batcave. It's not much a hook to bring readers back for issue 5.

Yea, that seems way off. Thinking about the comic, I feel like it's more of a first draft for a batman movie

The whole series has a whiff of first draft syndrome, as if Hamm had been rushed to finish the scripts before deadline.

[The Laughing Fish]

Here are more Easter egg analysis on the last two issues.

The way this story is unfolding, there are so many Easter eggs and homages being paid to but a lack of a captivating, focused story.

Didnt catch him returing to the cave after the explostions in the last issue (really need to read these in one go). That seems odd, but it seems like he's checking his own history and still bogged by his guilt.

I've been thinking about this, and I'm not convinced it's a valid excuse. Yeah, maybe Harvey's words over Batman causing collateral damage after the Halloween attack had gotten to Bruce, and he certainly feels guilty over that accidental death he indirectly caused in the second issue, but it's still out of character for him to go straight home while Gotham City suffers from arson attacks. Imagine if Batman in BR suddenly stopped his pursuit of the Penguin because he was so wrapped with his own guilt over not being able to save the Ice Princess? Or if he took a break from crime-fighting because he kicks himself for not looking when those two muggers attacked that tourist dad at the start of B89? No, Batman suffers from failures and tragedies all the time, but he puts his guilt behind him whenever a threat emerges. Him saying to Vicki "I try to avoid all this, but I can't" sums it up.

Now, I did say in my last post that maybe the Robin arc is supposed to inspire Batman to become more involved, or as Drake puts it, "terrorizing bad guys is a dead end, you got to inspire people to stand up on their own...to make the kind of world they want to live in". That's all well and good, but that still doesn't explain why Batman would suddenly go MIA while fires are lit up in the city.

I'm not happy with how the focus on the arsonists shifted to Bullock and the protests in the beginning of issue four. At the end of the third issue, I thought they were caused by those violent Batman copycats, because they tracked down Drake's whereabouts and started the fires at his auto shop, and I assumed they could be setting off more fires to continue their revenge. And maybe that's still the case, as you can see the protesters marching down the street holding signs saying "Cops Talk, Arsonists Walk". But instead of revealing who these arsonists are, it seems we have Robin setting off a firebomb to disrupt Bullock's planned attack against the protesters. To be honest, when I read issue four for the first time, I thought these fires were being set because there were riots happening in the streets, and completely misunderstood how people were protesting against the arsonists. The transition between issue three's ending to the opening and the whole duration of issue four doesn't flow very well at all.

If it were up to me, I'd scrap all of the Bullock and protests stuff and make room to have Batman and Robin team up in this very same issue to investigate the arson attacks. Instead, this is delayed for the next issue that's already edging closer to the end of the entire comic.

I still think Harvey Dent's backstory as Two-Face has been very good so far, but in retrospect, his transformation should've concluded in the last issue. Stretching it to four chapters is way too long. Judging by his discovery of the abandoned subway station that was meant to transport Burnside residents to the prosperous parts of Gotham City, it wouldn't surprise me if he leads a gathering of disgruntled protesters against the rest of the city. If the fourth issue is anything to go by, it will leave me confused and even more dissatisfied. The only positive is we should expect to see Batman and Robin team up for the first time and read some real action. But that still won't be enough if the plot isn't engaging.

I gotta say, I'm surprised at the positive reviews this issue has been getting. I suspect political biases are getting in the way of assessing the comic, as well as people's excitement over the numerous Easter eggs.

[eledoremassis02]

Here are more Easter egg analysis on the last two issues.

The way this story is unfolding, there are so many Easter eggs and homages being paid to but a lack of a captivating, focused story.

Didnt catch him returing to the cave after the explostions in the last issue (really need to read these in one go). That seems odd, but it seems like he's checking his own history and still bogged by his guilt.

I've been thinking about this, and I'm not convinced it's a valid excuse. Yeah, maybe Harvey's words over Batman causing collateral damage after the Halloween attack had gotten to Bruce, and he certainly feels guilty over that accidental death he indirectly caused in the second issue, but it's still out of character for him to go straight home while Gotham City suffers from arson attacks. Imagine if Batman in BR suddenly stopped his pursuit of the Penguin because he was so wrapped with his own guilt over not being able to save the Ice Princess? Or if he took a break from crime-fighting because he kicks himself for not looking when those two muggers attacked that tourist dad at the start of B89? No, Batman suffers from failures and tragedies all the time, but he puts his guilt behind him whenever a threat emerges. Him saying to Vicki "I try to avoid all this, but I can't" sums it up.

Now, I did say in my last post that maybe the Robin arc is supposed to inspire Batman to become more involved, or as Drake puts it, "terrorizing bad guys is a dead end, you got to inspire people to stand up on their own...to make the kind of world they want to live in". That's all well and good, but that still doesn't explain why Batman would suddenly go MIA while fires are lit up in the city.

I'm not happy with how the focus on the arsonists shifted to Bullock and the protests in the beginning of issue four. At the end of the third issue, I thought they were caused by those violent Batman copycats, because they tracked down Drake's whereabouts and started the fires at his auto shop, and I assumed they could be setting off more fires to continue their revenge. And maybe that's still the case, as you can see the protesters marching down the street holding signs saying "Cops Talk, Arsonists Walk". But instead of revealing who these arsonists are, it seems we have Robin setting off a firebomb to disrupt Bullock's planned attack against the protesters. To be honest, when I read issue four for the first time, I thought these fires were being set because there were riots happening in the streets, and completely misunderstood how people were protesting against the arsonists. The transition between issue three's ending to the opening and the whole duration of issue four doesn't flow very well at all.

If it were up to me, I'd scrap all of the Bullock and protests stuff and make room to have Batman and Robin team up in this very same issue to investigate the arson attacks. Instead, this is delayed for the next issue that's already edging closer to the end of the entire comic.

I still think Harvey Dent's backstory as Two-Face has been very good so far, but in retrospect, his transformation should've concluded in the last issue. Stretching it to four chapters is way too long. Judging by his discovery of the abandoned subway station that was meant to transport Burnside residents to the prosperous parts of Gotham City, it wouldn't surprise me if he leads a gathering of disgruntled protesters against the rest of the city. If the fourth issue is anything to go by, it will leave me confused and even more dissatisfied. The only positive is we should expect to see Batman and Robin team up for the first time and read some real action. But that still won't be enough if the plot isn't engaging.

I gotta say, I'm surprised at the positive reviews this issue has been getting. I suspect political biases are getting in the way of assessing the comic, as well as people's excitement over the numerous Easter eggs.

I think you hit the nail on the head "so many Easter eggs and homages being paid to but a lack of a captivating, focused story." It's a modern story in more ways than one sadly. I mean there are still some good parts, but parts that just need fleshing out badly. I think Bullock trying to start with the protesters should of happened wothin the first two issues. There is just way too much going on for a 6 issue run. Alos, so far there is no need for Catwoman, she really could have been cut. It's fun she's here but I think they ran into the problem with her own story being resolved (I think he becoming a vigilantee for crimes against women and those taken advantage of is really the only rought for Burtons Catwoman).

I think the other problem is that Burton, Keaton and honestley Billy Dee are not involved. I think they all would have trimed cut and twisted to some extent and made it feel more inline with the universe and I think Billy Dee might of had his own things he'd want to see in his two-face (I hope some one asks him about this in detail one day). Keaton I think would overall be pretty satisfied, but I think he's still needed (which is one of my hopes for The Flash).

The funny thing is so many people complain about Batman taking a backseat in the Burton films however, in this comic he actually is (which I'm fine with for the most part). I think perhaps we should of gotten a bonus/preview issue just fousing on Robin and the history of Burnside. Set up all the political issues and social messages that is the groundwork for this series.

Edit: One last thing, one of the best things to come out of this comic is the Batycle. My only two complains is that its so Burton that it honestly does not fit in with the rest of the art and two) it does feel a little 1992. Not sure how Burton would of updated the style in the cemented mid-90s but I also feel like Shumacher really cemented the 90s Batman with Forever.

[The Laughing Fish]

I think Bullock trying to start with the protesters should of happened wothin the first two issues.

I agree, and it certainly would've avoided this awkward pacing between issues three and four. If Hamm wants to make allegories to BLM, that's fine, but it should've been thought out much better and not come in at Batman's expense.

Alos, so far there is no need for Catwoman, she really could have been cut. It's fun she's here but I think they ran into the problem with her own story being resolved (I think he becoming a vigilantee for crimes against women and those taken advantage of is really the only rought for Burtons Catwoman).

I agree again, unfortunately. Catwoman was fun as far as fan service was concerned at first, but you're right by saying her subplot gets in the way of fleshing out the rest of the story. If they couldn't secure twelves issues for the ambitious ideas they wanted to pursue then they should've reconsidered and come up with a coherent story to satisfy the six issue run. Frankly, I'm not that curious to find out what she might find on the GCPD computer files, all I want to know is what the main story's endgame is. With only a couple of issues left to go, I'd be pleasantly surprised if Catwoman's arc gets a satisfying conclusion.

Barbara Gordon is another character could've been cut, or renamed even. So far, the relationship between her and her father isn't even explored, aside from the mere mention of the two aren't on speaking terms because they don't see eye-to-eye over Dent. Hamm and Quinones could've chosen any other name for Dent's fiance, and it wouldn't have mattered.

I think the other problem is that Burton, Keaton and honestley Billy Dee are not involved. I think they all would have trimed cut and twisted to some extent and made it feel more inline with the universe and I think Billy Dee might of had his own things he'd want to see in his two-face (I hope some one asks him about this in detail one day).

I'm not too surprised that Burton isn't involved, he is busy producing an Adams Family spinoff for Netflix as we speak. But I am surprised we still haven't heard his take on these comics and Keaton's return in The Flash. I think it goes without saying the Batman '89 comics is NOT something Burton would've gone with had he directed the third film back in 1995, but I find it strange nobody has reached out to him and ask what he thinks of these attempts to revive the Burtonverse.

As for Billy Dee Williams, he said in a DVD featurette for B89 that he wanted model his character after the real life politician and civil rights activist Adam Clayton Powell. Hamm must've taken cues because Dent in these comics is a bit of a preacher, even if his fellow community leaders look down on him for being an opportunist.

[The Laughing Fish]

I wish Batman didn't have any eye lenses in these comics, they don't really serve any purpose.

[Travesty]

I just got done reading the latest issue, and again, I'm just not impressed with this. I feel like this is one of the most ADD Batman stories I've ever read. It's all over the place, and can't seem to focus on anything for longer than a few seconds.

Let's just see how this story develops....or gets sidetracked again.

[The Laughing Fish]

I just got done reading the latest issue, and again, I'm just not impressed with this. I feel like this is one of the most ADD Batman stories I've ever read. It's all over the place, and can't seem to focus on anything for longer than a few seconds.

Let's just see how this story develops....or gets sidetracked again.

The next issue should be an improvement - it will be the first time we see Batman and Robin teaming up, after all. But I can't help but feel the series has jumped the shark, thanks to its attempts to shoehorn a bloated storyline in such a short run. Unless the last remaining couple of issues increases to forty-odd pages to give the plot a better chance to breathe, I suspect the conclusion of Batman '89 is going to get rushed.

If it were up to me in conceiving these comics for a six issue run, the only characters I'd focus would be Batman, Robin and Two-Face. I would remove Catwoman completely, and have Two-Face begin his crime spree at the start of issue four at the very latest, instead of having him begin his mayhem in the second last issue of the entire run. If Harvey were to stay engaged, I'd be tempted to rename his fiance, because as I've already said, that character didn't have to be called Barbara Gordon.

The frustration over the bloated nature of these comics remind me how much I give credit for Burton and co for being economical when they developed B89 and BR. They may not suit to every purists' liking, but those movies knew how to focus a few number of characters and a story you can follow. Sam Hamm may have some good ideas here and there, but I think the help he got from other writers on the Burton films improved those ideas.