Superman 5: The movie that never was.

[The Joker]

Haven't had time to really watch this as of my posting this, but maybe Colors, if anyone, might enjoy the vid.

[thecolorsblend]

Pretty informative video.

The problem most people face when making things like this is the slew of misinformation floating around out there. For reasons I can't say I fully understand, Ilya Salkind has never gone on the record about precisely what happened with the various Superman-related TV and movie rights in the early 1990's.

The way things LOOK is that WB completely went to the mattresses and launched every single legal trick against the Salkinds in the book to regain all Superman rights for themselves. Lawsuits, buyout offers, the works.

As to Superman V, the cynic in me wonders if Ilya Salkind didn't develop Superman V into such an attractive proposed movie specifically to drive WB's price even higher. Movie rights may or may not be worth a bit less by themselves. But movie rights combined with a compelling script in development might be worth a lot more. Keeping development updates about Superman V in the news would've been in Salkind's interests. Which is exactly what was going on at that time.

This tactic would've allowed Salkind to show during binding arbitration that (A) the Superman movie rights carried considerable value in the movie marketplace (B) he had taken prominent roles in developing Superman films in the past and (C) that he would be incurring some kind of loss by WB's enforced buyout... thereby likely resulting in a much bigger payday for himself.

For all those reasons, I'm a bit skeptical as to how committed Salkind ever truly was to making Superman V. The OG Superman: The Movie cast was old and withered by the early 1990's. Frankly, it would've made more sense to reboot the series at that time. As committed as Reeve might've been to play Superman in 1992, it rly made no sense to keep him around anymore considering his age. The only reason I can think of to not reboot at that time is because Reeve was so well known and associated with Superman at that time... and it gave a hypothetical Superman V film additional value.

One thing people tend to overlook is that Salkind made good faith attempts to create some kind of movie starring either John Haymes Newton and Gerard Christopher from the Superboy show. Progress was well underway but those efforts seemed to have died out by 1990... which, I gather, is when WB would've launched legal efforts against the Salkinds. Once the legal stuff with WB got going, what do you know, the John Haymes Newton/Gerard Christopher Superman films mysteriously vanished and here comes Superman V as a major big budget blockbuster starring Christopher Reeve (maybe)!

I smell a rat.

So, to sum up, I am a bit skeptical that Salkind ever truly intended to make Superman V. I think it more likely that he was trying to make the Superman property as pricey a buyout as he possibly could by developing a Superman V up to a certain point but with no real ambition to actually make such a thing.

It's fair to ask why WB were so keen to regain Superman at that time. If I can put on my conspiracy theory hat, Superman's 50th anniversary was in 1988 and it was a huge media extravaganza. And I think the bean counters at WB realized how little ownership they had of Superman at that time. In theory, WB might've "lost" millions in revenue from Superman media they didn't own. And so somebody demanded that WB regain the rights to Superman by any means necessary. No matter how long it takes, no matter how much it costs, no matter who has to get threatened, WB must regain Superman's various rights under a unified umbrella so that future anniversaries could be more profitable.

Maybe I'm wrong tho.

[The Dark Knight]

Superman film history is something I need to swat up on, but good thing I have the main man to ask.

Why did they even make Superman IV when it was clearly a low budget, ramshackle production?
Were they aware of that themselves, but simply didn't care?

How much enthusiasm would've there been if a fifth Reeve film got off the ground?

[thecolorsblend]

Why did they even make Superman IV when it was clearly a low budget, ramshackle production?

It wasn't clear at first. Cannon Films suffered tremendous financial problems just before Superman IV went into production. It was pitched to the cast and crew as a return to form. Meaning, another Superman: The Movie.

Obviously, things turned out a little differently.

Were they aware of that themselves, but simply didn't care?

Basically, S4 was Reeve's baby. He had an idea for a Superman movie revolving around the issue of nuclear disarmament. He pitched his idea to Cannon, they apparently loved the idea and it was off to the races. Reeve laid out certain demands. One of which was no compromises on the budget and minimal BTS shenanigans from the producers. Cannon agreed to everything.

Then, after the cast and crew signed on the dotted line, the financing fell apart but everybody was contractually obligated to follow through. As a result, S4 was not the film it was intended to be. For example, Mark Pillow plays Nuclear Man. But in Reeve's original conception of the story, Nuclear Man was supposed to be played... by Reeve. But it's cheaper to hire a different actor to play Nuclear Man than for Reeve to play both parts. So they hired a different actor. Still, it adds an interesting bit of subtext that Nuclear Man pursued Lacy Warfield so intensely. Nuclear Man is essentially a Superman clone. And if Nuclear Man has the hots for Lacy...

But stuff like that gets watered down in the final product.

How much enthusiasm would've there been if a fifth Reeve film got off the ground?

On Reeve's part, I have to think quite a lot.

That might not seem like a big deal. But it is.

When Reeve wrapped up his promotional obligations for Superman III, he made it very clear that he was done with Superman. Forever. He'd satisfied his original three film contract and he was content to fly off into the sunset. He gave a pretty infamous interview with Playgirl magazine circa 1983 or where he almost denigrated the character.

By 1986, he was obviously singing a different tune about Superman. So much so, in fact, that he was eager to return to the character.

I have no idea what happened. But somewhere between 1983 and 1986, Reeve completely changed his tune about Superman. Whatever happened happened and for literally the rest of his days, Reeve was on the Superman bandwagon.

Reeve never had the career he wanted. It's hard not to compare Reeve's trajectory to Harrison Ford. They both got their big breaks around the same time. But from that time on, their careers went in very different directions. But in the mid-Eighties, when Reeve performed his about-face regarding Superman, he was still getting some very interesting, career-making offers. So, a career downturn doesn't rly explain why he changed his mind so drastically. All we know for sure is that some time in the mid-Eighties, Reeve finally GOT IT when it comes to Superman.

As such, Reeve would always have specific demands. In short, he wanted to make a quality film. He saw no point in a cash-grab venture (which is what S4 ultimately became). He wanted to make something he could be proud of. And at the end of the day, I honestly can't hold that against him.

As to the rest of the cast, with respect, none of them were super-busy in the early Nineties. Not even Marc McClure. I'm sure they would've loved to come back.

Interest among the public... it's hard to say but I have to think that a Superman movie that reaches for the stars like the first movie did would've generated considerable interest from the moviegoing public in 1991 or so.

[Silver Nemesis]

Haven't had time to really watch this as of my posting this, but maybe Colors, if anyone, might enjoy the vid.

A very interesting video. Thanks for posting it, Joker. I don't think I've ever seen that convention footage before, or at least not the part where Reeve states that he'd have done the fifth movie. I recall reading part of the Cary Bates script shortly after Superman Returns came out and thinking that it was much darker than the earlier Reeve films. It had a contemporary feel and would have presented a more nineties take on the character. With the right director and budget, it could have redeemed the franchise following the disaster of Superman IV. Now it'll forever be one of those great 'what ifs' like Burton's third Batman film.

I could swear I once read somewhere that Reeve was interested in directing Superman V himself, but maybe I'm wrong. Here's Cary Bates talking about the project in an interview from 2008:

Q: How did the idea for "Superman V" or "Superman Reborn", which you wrote with Ilya Salkind and Mark Jones, come about? (Were you aware the script has recently been published online and generally been very well-received by fans who've even said it'd make a great sequel to "Superman Returns"?)

A: A Superman film treatment I had previously done on spec in the 80's (and gotten nowhere with Warners) was the catalyst. During Superboy's second season I showed it to Ilya, and he decided there was enough good material there to serve as a "jumping off point" for a new Superman movie. This prompted him and his father to reactivate the franchise (which they had leased to the Cannon group for the ill-fated Superman IV); subsequently I signed a deal to develop a full screenplay with Mark Jones as co-writer.

Q: How far did the "Superman V" project get as you recall? I understand Chris Reeve considered returning to the role. Why do you think the project never happened?

A: We were in the initial stages of pre-production. The film had been budgeted and they had hired a production designer who came up with some great stuff (I can still recall his kick-ass designs for Brainiac's ship). Unfortunately, other forces were at work we weren't aware of at the time. Final script approval never came down from Warners because they had their own plans for the character - the newly commissioned Lois and Clark series. It wasn't long after that when the Salkinds began negotiations to sell all their Superman rights back to the studio. Given the success of the Superman films and the more recent Batman franchise, by the early '90's WB had realized in hindsight they were remiss in letting go of the rights to their flagship comic book character.

https://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/interviews/interviews-intro.php?topic=c-interview_bates

I make no secret of the fact I'm a huge Lois & Clark fanboy, so I wouldn't have wanted Superman V at the expense of that show. But if they could have gotten it made before 1993, and had it offer a more dignified conclusion to the Reeve series than The Quest for Peace, then I'd probably have ended up loving it. The way things are going, it feels as though we'll never see Superman face Brainiac on the big screen.

Reeve never had the career he wanted. It's hard not to compare Reeve's trajectory to Harrison Ford. They both got their big breaks around the same time. But from that time on, their careers went in very different directions. But in the mid-Eighties, when Reeve performed his about-face regarding Superman, he was still getting some very interesting, career-making offers. So, a career downturn doesn't rly explain why he changed his mind so drastically. All we know for sure is that some time in the mid-Eighties, Reeve finally GOT IT when it comes to Superman.

As such, Reeve would always have specific demands. In short, he wanted to make a quality film. He saw no point in a cash-grab venture (which is what S4 ultimately became). He wanted to make something he could be proud of. And at the end of the day, I honestly can't hold that against him.

Reeve had a funny career. He was classically trained at Juilliard (where he was classmates with Robin Williams and Kevin Conroy) and was clearly more interested in serious dramatic and highbrow comedic roles than in mainstream popcorn flicks. He rose to prominence around the time muscle-bound action heroes were coming into fashion, yet he continually resisted Hollywood's attempts to fit him into that mould. Had he not done so, he could have had a lot of success making action movies. He was 6'4, athletic and had a chiselled square draw. And while he was vocal about the fact he didn't enjoy weight training as much as some of his contemporaries, he nevertheless had excellent genetics and was clearly capable of bulking up when the role demanded it.

Action hero roles he turned down included the lead parts in Romancing the Stone (1984), Lethal Weapon (1987), The Running Man (1987) and Total Recall (1990). He also turned down the Fletcher Christian role in The Bounty (1984), which, along with the Lethal Weapon lead, went to Mel Gibson. The Running Man and Total Recall parts obviously went to Schwarzenegger. It might have benefited Reeve's career to have taken on at least one of those roles.

That's not to say that he didn't make some good films outside of the Superman franchise, because he did. The Remains of the Day (1993) is a superb film and a very worthy adaptation of Kazuo Ishiguro's excellent novel (Reeve's character is actually an amalgamation of two separate characters in the book). Somewhere in Time (1980) and Deathtrap (1982) are also good movies. But if he'd starred in the odd blockbuster action flick, say once every three or four years, then it would have been easier for him to leverage his box office value and secure financing for his smaller and more personal projects. Instead he seemed to take the attitude that one action hero role – Superman – was enough. I admire him for sticking to his principles, but I also wonder how his career might have gone differently if he'd been a bit more flexible.

[thecolorsblend]

Action hero roles he turned down included the lead parts in Romancing the Stone (1984), Lethal Weapon (1987), The Running Man (1987) and Total Recall (1990). He also turned down the Fletcher Christian role in The Bounty (1984), which, along with the Lethal Weapon lead, went to Mel Gibson. The Running Man and Total Recall parts obviously went to Schwarzenegger. It might have benefited Reeve's career to have taken on at least one of those roles.

That's not to say that he didn't make some good films outside of the Superman franchise, because he did. The Remains of the Day (1993) is a superb film and a very worthy adaptation of Kazuo Ishiguro's excellent novel (Reeve's character is actually an amalgamation of two separate characters in the book). Somewhere in Time (1980) and Deathtrap (1982) are also good movies. But if he'd starred in the odd blockbuster action flick, say once every three or four years, then it would have been easier for him to leverage his box office value and secure financing for his smaller and more personal projects. Instead he seemed to take the attitude that one action hero role – Superman – was enough. I admire him for sticking to his principles, but I also wonder how his career might have gone differently if he'd been a bit more flexible.

That's why I compare Reeve to Ford. Ford played the game beautifully. Star Wars and Indy, some dramatic stuff, more Indy, more dramatic stuff, Jack Ryan, The Fugitive, more dramatic stuff. He was willing to give and take.

Reeve obviously wasn't. And I think that hurt him. Romancing the Stone, Lethal Weapon, Running Man, Total Recall, any one of those would've changed his fortunes considerably. Any two of them and he probably could've done whatever he wanted next. If he'd done all four of them, he might've been pigeonholed into the Action Hero thing he wanted to avoid... but he still would've had one hell of a career. In hindsight, doing Romancing the Stone and Total Recall would've offered the right balance.

I'll give Reeve some credit tho. Lethal Weapon and Superman IV both came out in 1987. Based on that, I assume availability would've been an issue. Otherwise, I imagine that the allure of working with Donner again combined with the complexity of the Martin Riggs character would've greatly interested Reeve, action character or not.

(Still, Riggs is Gibson and Gibson is Riggs for me, I can't see anybody else in the role so maybe this is for the best?)

[The Dark Knight]

Then, after the cast and crew signed on the dotted line, the financing fell apart but everybody was contractually obligated to follow through.

Thanks for the responses.

It's staggering this stuff happens with big name properties like Superman. It shouldn't. Putting out a bad product is just as bad as long term stagnation. Probably worse.

Way I see things, Reeve gets praised for basically just appearing in STM. Imagine the popularity of Reeve if he appeared in STM only (due to an early death, being crippled much earlier in his life, or some other reason). His legend status would've been incalculable. I know others see merit in III and IV, and thats fine. But I think it's a shame how his series really burned out. Cavill at least will have a true trilogy of 571 minutes with strict continuity and consistent quality. Even if the Superman brand remains in limbo, I'll at least have that.

[Silver Nemesis]

That's why I compare Reeve to Ford. Ford played the game beautifully. Star Wars and Indy, some dramatic stuff, more Indy, more dramatic stuff, Jack Ryan, The Fugitive, more dramatic stuff. He was willing to give and take.

Reeve obviously wasn't. And I think that hurt him. Romancing the Stone, Lethal Weapon, Running Man, Total Recall, any one of those would've changed his fortunes considerably. Any two of them and he probably could've done whatever he wanted next. If he'd done all four of them, he might've been pigeonholed into the Action Hero thing he wanted to avoid... but he still would've had one hell of a career. In hindsight, doing Romancing the Stone and Total Recall would've offered the right balance.

I'll give Reeve some credit tho. Lethal Weapon and Superman IV both came out in 1987. Based on that, I assume availability would've been an issue. Otherwise, I imagine that the allure of working with Donner again combined with the complexity of the Martin Riggs character would've greatly interested Reeve, action character or not.

The Ford comparison is a good one. Gibson's career also offers a look at what Reeve's might have been like, since he successfully balanced action popcorn flicks like the Mad Max and Lethal Weapon movies against more prestigious dramatic roles (Gallipoli, The Year of Living Dangerously, The Bounty, etc). Reeve had already established himself as an accomplished stage actor by time the eighties rolled around, so I don't think there was ever any serious risk of him being pigeonholed the way action stars like Dolph Lundgren of JCVD were (no disrespect to those guys – I'm a big fan of them both). Maybe he just didn't approve of all the violence and gunplay that was so prevalent in eighties action movies.

I agree that Romancing the Stone would have been a good film for him. Michael Douglas was great in both that and The Jewel of the Nile, but I bet Reeve could have done something interesting with the part. It wouldn't have been as violent as some of those other movies, which might have made it more appealing to him. I can't imagine anyone other than Arnold starring in Verhoeven's version of Total Recall. But earlier in its development, when it was proceeding with a different director and Patrick Swayze in line for the lead, then it might have been a suitable vehicle for Reeve.

I wonder who would have played Lois if Superman V had been made in the early nineties. I'm assuming they'd have had to recast the role, since Margot Kidder was injured in a car crash in 1990 that limited her ability to work for several years. I've also seen a lot of people online make harsh remarks about Kidder's looks in the Superman sequels, with the consensus being that she didn't age well once she passed thirty. Some actresses end up looking better in their thirties and forties than they did in their twenties (Michelle Pfeiffer being a perfect example), but in Kidder's case there's no denying that her health and substance abuse problems took a very visible toll on her appearance. She aged drastically between 1978 and 1988.

I don't mean to be unkind in pointing this out. Kidder was beautiful in her prime and obviously lived through some rough experiences. But if the point of Superman V was to breathe fresh life into the franchise, and considering the problems Kidder was struggling with in her private life at the time, would it not have been better to bring in someone else to play Lois? And if so, who? Which actress would have been roughly the right age (i.e. Kidder's age or younger) and near enough to Kidder in appearance that she could assume the role? Courteney Cox? Demi Moore?

(Still, Riggs is Gibson and Gibson is Riggs for me, I can't see anybody else in the role so maybe this is for the best?)

There's only one Riggs. Those movies wouldn't have been nearly as successful without Mel.

[The Joker]

[The Laughing Fish]

Haven't had time to really watch this as of my posting this, but maybe Colors, if anyone, might enjoy the vid.

I love how this video uses various Superman media to illustrate the plot of Superman Reborn, particularly the use of the Superman: Brainiac animated film and comic. It really gives you a good idea of how the film might have been.

Not sure how reliable this is because it doesn't have a source, but the first draft for Superman V was quite different.

In the first draft script, Clark Kent is still unable to admit his feelings for the woman he loves, Lois Lane. Before he is able to resolve those feelings with her, Brainiac appears to challenge him. The two fight to their respective deaths. As Superman dies in Lois' arms, he finally confesses his feelings to her. Unbeknownst to either of them, this final confession not only releases his soul from his body, but said soul enters the body of Lois. She soon discovers that she is pregnant with Superman's child. Days later, the child is born and within the span of three weeks, he grows into the body of a 21-year-old man. As Lois is killed in the middle of the film, the new-born assumes his birthright as the new Superman and defeats Brainiac, saving the world.

https://superman-anthology.fandom.com/wiki/Superman_V:_Reborn

I prefer the second draft, as described in the video. It's as action packed as the first draft, but with a much happier conclusion of Superman restoring Kandor as the only surviving link to Krypton while choosing to remain Earth's champion and restores his love for Lois. The first draft rather ends on such a down note in comparison.

As much as I admired Salkind's enthusiasm for the script, I couldn't see it ever getting filmed with the same special effects in the late eighties or early nineties. Judging how special effects got more advanced in the mid-nineties, any realistic production for Superman V was about seven or eight years away.

Another issue Superman V might've faced is the same exact issue that's haunting the brand right now - nostalgia. As much as I love S78, I've noticed more people look at that entire film and Reeve's Superman as a fairytale myth. If you challenge Superman with such high stakes as this script does, the risks of the outcry over the violence and the horror over Superman dying before reviving could've been huge. There may be a happily-ever-after ending with Clark and Lois in the end, but the journey of getting there in Superman V would've been painful for the Donner purists.

It's a real shame that the Salkinds sold the rights to those cheapskates at Cannon, and an even bigger shame that nobody at WB had the vision of working out a deal with the Salkinds to split half of the rights. Anyone would have made The Quest for Peace a far better experience than what we got.