Fighting Style of the Nolan Batman

[thecolorsblend]

My knowledge of Taekwondo stances is entirely limited to what I've learnt in this thread, but looking at the following publicity shot of Keaton (I assume this is Keaton, but it could just be his head superimposed over Dave Lea's body), is it possible he's attempting to strike this stance here? I know it's not exactly the same, but the positioning of his arm over his advanced leg is similar.

We established in the thread on the Burton Batman's fighting style that the type of kickboxing Keaton trained in was most likely a fusion of Taekwondo and Shotokan Karate. Perhaps he (or his stunt double) adopted one of the stances he was taught for this photo, then altered it in accordance with the photographer's directions. From what I remember, he never uses a stance like this in the actual film.

Yeah, I assume he's following the photographer's directions there. It looks similar to the TKD forward stance but with a photographer's logical preference of wanting to visually balance the pose (one arm up, the other down) and also show off detailing on the costume... a crucial task for any publicity photo.

Except for a modified TKD forward stance (and a very interesting one at that; I think that would be workable for a student wearing a cape), I don't recognize that exact pose from any school.

One thing all these threads have done for me is show how restrictive and burdensome wearing a cape is in combat. I have a whole new respect for the stunt coordinators of these films for designing choreography that works around the limitations imposed by Batman's cape.

[Silver Nemesis]

I love the cape and wouldn't want to ever see it removed from his costume. But yeah, when you look at it from a functional standpoint it's utterly impractical and liable to get the wearer killed. The most realistic depiction of what it would be like to wear a cape in combat can be found in the 1940s film serials.

In the unlikely event that anyone was hoping for a 'Fighting Style of the Lewis Wilson Batman' thread, then this gif is about as comprehensive as I can get.

[The Dark Knight]

His striking speed there already looks faster than that of the Schumacher and Nolan Batmen. By my count, he lands seven or eight punches in about four and a half seconds.

As to the philosophy behind the punches, Pattinson seems focused on subduing opponents as quickly as possible. And brutality is pretty much the only non-lethal way of getting there. His speed and obvious strength displayed in the second gif make him a threat to virtually all Batmen we've discussed. Based on the second gif, Bale's protective cowl will be of considerable help to him but when you get knocked down, you get knocked down, period.

I want to see more of Pattinson's moves but so far he's got speed, immense strength and solid balance. Any way you care to slice it, he's highly dangerous and not to be trifled with.

Thanks to you both for the responses.

My instant gut feel, based on a few seconds of footage, is that Affleck would be Pattinson's biggest threat in direct combat. If Pattinson was able to maintain that level of intensity while fighting, I even think Keaton would be in serious trouble. He's able to sustain blows, but at that speed? I'm not sure.

Bale's Batman wouldn't be a slouch, especially his BB incarnation. But the point I make for Keaton would also apply to Bale, and I think the Schumacher Batmen. I think Pattinson will be consistently fearsome in the suit, because it seems they're going for a young, wild beast before he becomes a honed weapon.

[thecolorsblend]

I love the cape and wouldn't want to ever see it removed from his costume. But yeah, when you look at it from a functional standpoint it's utterly impractical and liable to get the wearer killed. The most realistic depiction of what it would be like to wear a cape in combat can be found in the 1940s film serials.

In the unlikely event that anyone was hoping for a 'Fighting Style of the Lewis Wilson Batman' thread, then this gif is about as comprehensive as I can get.

On a lark, I checked out various poomsae on YouTube.

Karate generally uses kata; movement patterns to teach the student karate. In taekwondo, it's basically the same thing but they're called poomsae.

Anyway, I remembered that poomsae 4 (yellow belt-level, if that matters to anybody) begins with an interesting posture... which is unfortunately called "double knife hand block". Yes, I'm totally serious, that's what it's called.

Still, that posture looks like it could be of some utility specifically to Bale's Batman. It doesn't go out of its way to protect the head and the defense and counter are already built in to the posture.

In fact, my one criticism of DKHB is the student's weight distribution. I realized that even as a kid, I disagreed with evenly distributing the student's weight as DKBH prescribes. Because having used DKHB in competition, I discovered that even-weight distribution was a crap system and left the student vulnerable to knee kick. So I put the majority of my weight on my back (right) foot and when the opponent's kick came in to my left knee, I simply raised my left foot into a high sidekick and got the guy in the face.

That was controversial, btw, because taekwondo is a school that emphasizes balance and equilibrium. What I did in competition is technically a modification (some would say corruption) of the technique. The judges reluctantly awarded me the point because I'm not the guy who got kicked in the face. But let's face it, they don't approve of a westerner rethinking their centuries old art on the fly.

Maybe this is only interesting to me. But I'm discovering that many taekwondo postures would actually serve Batman quite well. And the taekwondo philosophy of generating power through speed would allow Batman to go on the offensive in ways that more passive schools (I'm looking at you, judo) would not allow.

Honestly, the only thing about taekwondo that wouldn't work for Batman's purposes is the emphasis on high kicks. But the theories behind taekwondo are almost perfect for Batman's tactics and MO. Canonically, Batman has dabbled with all combat forms. I think what Batman would take from taekwondo are most of the postures, virtually all of the philosophy but practically none of the actual moves/kicks.

I'm rambling.

[thecolorsblend]

I may have to eat my words here a little bit.

But earlier in this thread, I offered a critique of Baleman's use of KFM from the standpoint that the default posture is elbows-up. This posture is intended to protect the student's head from trauma while giving the student the opportunity for a counter-strike with his elbows.

My critique of that posture for Baleman comes from the fact that his head is already protected. So, elbows-up is arguably redundant. But I then suggested that the posture leaves his torso open to attack... which is particularly bad in his case because in TDK and TDKRises, that area is made more vulnerable. My basic argument was that the default KFM posture was just bad business for Baleman all around.

But one thing I hadn't considered in the MMA-obsessed world we live in is the likely protection that the elbows-up posture offers to Baleman. Choke-slams and ground-and-pound are becoming mor prevalent even among street brawlers these days. And KFM's posture would offer some protection against those attacks. The forearms being raised could create a built-in protection for the neck from being grabbed by an attacker and then forced to the ground.

In any fight today, that's a valid concern. And Baleman is uniquely inoculated against that specific attack whereas other Batmen might be left more vulnerable to it.

Just an observation, nothing more.

[Silver Nemesis]

That's a good point. I suppose it depends on how strong the gorget is in Batman's armour. I've always assumed that the stiffness of the neck in the Burton Batman's cowl was indicative of the protection it offered, which is why Ray Charles was unable to choke him out with a sleeper move (i.e. apply pressure to the carotid artery to limit the flow of oxygen to the brain) when he got him in this hold.

The neck on the Batman Begins costume looks like it's similarly well protected, while the neck area on the TDK and TDKR costumes appears more lightly armoured. The elevation of the arms in the KFM stance not only protects the head from blows, but also makes it much harder for an opponent to get their arms around your neck. Since Baleman employs grappling techniques to a higher degree than the other screen Batmen, it makes sense that he would also be better equipped to defend himself against such attacks.

[thecolorsblend]

I went looking for the Mission Impossible thread. And either I can't find it or else it doesn't exist.

But I've been making my way through the MI franchise in advance of DR1. I haven't seen most of the MI films before anyway so this was kind of a treat.

Even so, I was reminded of this thread while watching the end of MI3.

This is the best KFM that I've ever seen on film. It's brief. But it's there. And the story logic of it holds up. Ethan would want to protect his head and face during that fight. I'm interpreting the implant as triggering essentially two or three migraines at once before it goes pop.

It's everything Ethan can do to stay on his feet. So, he has to use KFM to win the fight.

Anyway, no deeper meaning there. I just wasn't expecting to see it and it was a fun little surprise.

[The Dark Knight]

But I've been making my way through the MI franchise in advance of DR1. I haven't seen most of the MI films before anyway so this was kind of a treat.

Great idea. I've been wanting you in particular to see the movies and see what you think. The run from Ghost Protocol onwards is pretty remarkable from an action/espionage point of view. Fallout would probably be my favorite. I did see Part One and it's also very good. I don't think it's the best one, but it's a must on the big screen.

[thecolorsblend]

The run from Ghost Protocol onwards is pretty remarkable from an action/espionage point of view.

True. There's nothing wrong with MI1 through MI3. But GP is where the series finally found its true identity imo.

Fallout would probably be my favorite.

Agreed. I guessed the twist relatively early on. But it was still a very effective spy thriller/action movie that hit all the right notes and delivered the goods in scene after scene. I simply have no criticism of Fallout.

...

Shouldn't we have a thread for the MI franchise?

[The Dark Knight]

True. There's nothing wrong with MI1 through MI3. But GP is where the series finally found its true identity imo.

I still think the first has the best atmosphere of them all. I also love how the general template of the what the series would evolve into is still there in a lower scale way. MI3 has my favorite cold open to any film - the interrogation scene, and Hoffman is probably the best villain in the series. However I really like what Gabriel brings to the table in Dead Reckoning Part One.

Agreed. I guessed the twist relatively early on. But it was still a very effective spy thriller/action movie that hit all the right notes and delivered the goods in scene after scene. I simply have no criticism of Fallout.

This is my favorite scene from the film:

Particularly the footage from 2.25-2.55 which is primal, practical action at its best.

"Ethan he's getting away from you, you're gonna have to go faster" is pure Cruisetainment. It gives the perfect excuse for Tom to run the fastest he ever has, with a thrilling soundtrack driving him on. One clean take of him sprinting across the roof, culminating in his jump across the other side. He actually broke his ankle doing that, but carried on limping to save the take.

I think what Ghost Protocol onwards really nailed is the team dynamic. Ethan is definitely the main protagonist but they manage to establish a solid cast of regulars. The Burj Khalifa climbing scene is fantastic, and to this day I'm still deciding if I prefer it to the wire descent in the original. What I enjoy about this series is how the mission must be done, no matter what. Not wanting to do something doesn't come into the equation. The clock is ticking. Get it done.

Shouldn't we have a thread for the MI franchise?

I'm all for it.