Fighting Style of the Nolan Batman

[Silver Nemesis]

The most obvious one to start with here is the Keysi Fighting Method, often abbreviated as KFM. This is the foundation of Bruce's martial philosophy in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, though the stunt team modified it for The Dark Knight Rises to allow for the fact that Bruce was meant to be older and slower. The classic KFM stance involves holding the arms up to protect the head with the elbows projecting forwards.

The Nolan Batman adopts this stance in numerous fight scenes.

KFM incorporates elements of barroom brawling, and this is clearly evidenced in the Nolan Batman's fighting style. Note that he often allows himself to get hit, then channels his anger into his counterattack. This exemplifies one of the core psychological components of Keysi.

Christian Bale had already been training in Wing Chun Kung Fu under the tutelage of Sifu Eric Oram for some time prior to making Batman Begins. I believe he began training in Wing Chun for his own personal benefit rather than for any specific film role. But since he was already training before and during the making of The Dark Knight trilogy, it inevitably influenced his fighting style on screen.

According to online sources, Christian Bale has also trained in Krav Maga, a martial art developed by the Israeli Defence Force. Examples of him using this can be seen when the Nolan Batman disarms opponents carrying guns.

His prominent use of hammerfist strikes is also typical of Krav Maga and KFM.

Bale's stunt double, world Ju-Jitsu champion Buster Reeves, confirmed that they expanded his fighting style for The Dark Knight Rises to include Silat, Jeet Kune Do and Thai boxing.

"Because Bane's his biggest adversary yet, Chris wanted Batman to evolve his fighting style. We've added a bit of Jeet Kun Do, some Silat [an Indonesian martial art], a bit of Thai boxing."

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2012/jul/14/dark-knight-rises-behind-the-scenes

Ra's describes Bruce's stance as "Tiger" when they first fight at the League of Shadows headquarters. Tiger is one of the main forms of Five Animals Shaolin Kung Fu. Later in the same fight, Bruce adopts a different stance which Ra's identifies as "Panther". This is another less common form of Animal Kung Fu. So Bruce has definitely trained in Shaolin Kung Fu, and specifically the Animal forms. He occasionally strikes with his forearm instead of his fists, which I believe is also typical of Tiger Kung Fu.

When Ra's intercepts Bruce's attack, Bruce responds by twisting his opponent's limb to try and throw him off balance. Ra's identifies this manoeuvre as "Ju-Jitsu". The Nolan Batman frequently uses similar joint locks to disarm and incapacitate his enemies throughout the trilogy. Most of his joint locks are derived from Ju-Jitsu.

The scene where Bruce is defending himself while balancing on wooden poles evokes a balance training method used in Shaolin Kung Fu.

Bale's Batman primarily uses his upper body for striking, but he does occasionally employ kicks. He generally uses simple front and push kicks, though he does execute a spinning hook kick and several side kicks when fighting the League of Shadows in Batman Begins. These are fairly basic kicks that are taught in many martial arts.

The Nolan Batman is explicitly stated to be a practitioner of Ninjutsu. We see him learning these techniques from Ra's in the first half of Batman Begins.  When training with the League of Shadows, Bruce wears a shinobi shozoku, which is the traditional attire of a ninja. He's shown to use stealth, smoke pellets, ninja bracers and throwing blades throughout his career as Batman.

On the subject of throwing blades, the Nolan Batman is clearly skilled at Shurikenjutsu.

When Bruce duels against Ra's on the ice he uses a Japanese katana and holds it with a two-handed grip. This is typical of modern day Kendo. But since they're using real blades and not bamboo swords, or shinai, then I'm going to list this as Kenjutsu.

Bruce is also clearly proficient at boxing.

So that gives us Ninjutsu, Keysi, barroom brawling, Kenjutsu, Shurikenjutsu, Wing Chun, Five Animals Kung Fu (Tiger and Panther), Ju-Jitsu, Thai boxing, Silat, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do and boxing. Baleman is proficient in over a dozen different styles, most of which have been confirmed by the stunt team or in the films' dialogue. That means that the Nolan Batman displays the broadest range of fighting techniques of any live action Batman to date. On paper he's the most skilled fighter among the movie Batmen. Batfleck obviously faced the strongest and most power opponents (Superman, Doomsday, Parademons, etc), but Baleman defeated the most skilled (the League of Shadows, Ra's al Ghul, Bane).

Overall, the Nolan Batman has a well-rounded strategic fighting style that encompasses strikes, throws and submission holds, as well as both armed and unarmed techniques. He makes good use of stealth, weaponry and his environment to give himself an advantage in combat, and he's shown to be capable of handling multiple opponents at the same time. There aren't any obvious weaknesses in the combination of styles he employs, though we can perhaps identify some weaknesses in the way he implements them.

One would be his overreliance on hammerfist and elbow strikes, which risks making his moveset predictable. His method of allowing himself to take hits – of compromising defence in favour of attack – is also flawed, as was demonstrated when he went up against Bane. This technique is fine when dealing with low-level goons who can be kayoed with one punch, but it's less effective against fighters who can take a hit and keep on coming.

Another weakness I've noticed is how little he uses his feet in combat. Baleman only ever performs low and mid-level kicks, never once raising his feet to connect with an upright adversary's face. I understand that the fights were choreographed this way for the sake of realism, but it doesn't change the fact that all the other cinematic Batmen were shown to be proficient at high-level kicking techniques while the Nolan Batman isn't.

I've also noticed that while Baleman does often shield his head and torso, he tends to leave his lower body unprotected. The Burton Batman was shown to use his shin guards to protect his legs against low-level attacks, but I don't remember ever seeing the Nolan Batman do this. His enemies exploited this gap in his defences on several occasions. Ra's was able to kick his legs out from under him when they fought on the train in Batman Begins...

...the Joker was able to knock him to the ground by striking his legs with a metal bar...

...and Bane was able to knock him down by punching his knee during their first fight in The Dark Knight Rises.

So I'd say Baleman's lower body is clearly his weak spot when it comes to both attack and defence. He also shares the limited agility of the Burton Batman and relies on his grapple gun and cape glider for most of his manoeuvrability.

But how would he do in combat against the villains from the other Batman movies? Is there anyone in the Burton or Schumacher films that might give him trouble? What about the Batmen themselves? Baleman might display the broadest range of martial arts techniques, but the skill gap isn't so big that the Burton, Schumacher and DCEU Batmen couldn't present a good challenge. The DCEU Batman in particular is very close in skill level, and the Burton version isn't too far off. Could Baleman's talents prevail over the metahuman strength and durability of Bat-Keaton and Batfleck, or against the gravity-defying agility of the Schumacher Batman?

[thecolorsblend]

The baggage I'm bringing to this is my distaste for high kicks/roundhouse kicks. Basically, my view is that if you aim a kick anywhere above your opponent's waist, you're taking an awful risk for at best a 50/50 chance of scoring damage... and a worse than 50/50 chance of your opponent countering with fight-ending blows to your groin, knee or solar plexus. Maybe some fighters out there can get away with high kicks but I insist that most people should stick with low kicks (if you must kick at all!) and mid/high hand strikes in a combat situation.

Also, my entire philosophy on combat can be boiled down to "Don't move a muscle until you absolutely have to". Which, perhaps, creates biases for some Batmen over others, hmm.

Anyway, as we've worked through this series, I've wondered if we shouldn't account for mindset and psychology in fighting styles.

For starters, on paper, Bale's Batman should be able to defeat Keaton's Batman. But Bale's Batman has a stated preference for preserving life while Keaton's Batman doesn't. So if it meant the difference between winning and losing, Keaton might use lethal force while Bale probably wouldn't. Bale's height and reach advantage would benefit him, esp at the start of the match. But if Keaton decides it's time to cut his losses and plow through, Bale is in a world of trouble. Both Batmen are shown to be capable of using their environments to their advantage but I think Keaton has an edge here.

Same thing applies to Affleck. If Affleck squares off with TDKRises Bale, I think he'd have a much easier time. But if it's BB or TDK-era Bale, Affleck will have one hell of a fight ahead of him. Here again tho, mindset figures into it. Affleck from BVS won't hesitate to hit to kill. That means something in this fight. Affleck's armor allows him to survive multiple gunshot wounds with nary a scratch whereas Bale's TDK uniform is explicitly more vulnerable to knives and gunfire and visibly vulnerable to blunt physical trauma. I think Affleck would recognize his opponent's vulnerabilities and exploit them to maximum effect. A ground-and-pound strategy was devastatingly effective against Bale when Bane employed it and I think Affleck would glom onto that eventually as well.

Affleck's age works against him less than Bale's TDKRises age works against Bale. Sheer stamina might be enough to propel BVS Affleck to victory over TDKRises Bale.

All that said, I do not believe Clooney's Batman could defeat Bale's Batman. Bale has a wide range of disciplines and schools under his belt while Clooney basically brings together a fusion of Taekwondo and karate. Those are both effective schools in how Clooney uses them but I can't envision that they'd put him over top in a fight with Bale.

But even if we project all of Kilmer's fighting skills onto Clooney, I still think Bale comes out on top. A lot of Bale's movements and footwork are economies of energy and balance. Bale simply has an overall more minimalist fighting style, especially when fighting a single opponent. Bale seems to intuitively understand how important it is to conserve his strength. Bane chides him about that but, honestly, Bale started off that fight pretty conservatively and only started flailing in desperation. For being as out of shape as he was, Bale still lasted a hell of a long time against Bane in their first match. That should tell us quite a lot about his staying power.

Kilmer, however, famously overextended himself, employed all manner of flashy kicks and flips. Those all look great on camera but they're wasteful, energy-draining moves that don't produce any tactical advantage. I think Bale would recognize that and rope a dope his opponent into exhaustion before shutting him down. The art of fighting without fighting and all that.

As far as Adam West is concerned, well, I never bet against him.

My pet theory is that TDK-era Bale doesn't easily defeat Bane but he still defeats Bane in the end. That's Bale at the top of his form, clearly in his prime and I daresay Bale in TDK can probably defeat at least 99% of the entire world when it comes to hand to hand combat.

Bale against Schumacher's Bane is interesting because he's kind of similar to Nolan's Bane but much bigger and much stronger. Still, the mask remains Jeep's weakness. Bale has already demonstrated his ability to figure that out in TDKRises and I think he would figure it out against Jeep Bane. Unlike Hardy tho, Bale will take considerable damage from Jeep before putting him down. I just don't see Schumacher's Bane going down without one hell of a fight.

Bale against Mr. Freeze is... a challenge. On the one hand, Freeze isn't really a brawler to begin with. That advantages Bale. But Freeze also wears bulky armor which greatly enhances his strength, which advantages Freeze. Theatricality and deception might be the deciding factors here tho. Freeze repeatedly shows himself to be caught off-guard by the unexpected (Batman bursting through the skylight, Robin busting through the double doors). I think Bale might try softening Freeze up with T&D before making his big push.

If it's straight hand to hand tho, I still have to give the edge to Bale. If he found Bane's mask weakness (and he did), he'd eventually discover a weakness in Freeze's armor.

Oddly enough, one fight where I'd be greatly concerned about Bale is with the swordsman from B89. Bale's wrist gauntlets would protect him somewhat from the whirling blades but the lack of shin gauntlets combined with Bale's below-the-waist weaknesses could spell disaster for him. If he can't disable the blades in short order somehow (and quickly!), he's in for a world of pain.

[The Dark Knight]

The most obvious one to start with here is the Keysi Fighting Method, often abbreviated as KFM. This is the foundation of Bruce's martial philosophy in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, though the stunt team modified it for The Dark Knight Rises to allow for the fact that Bruce was meant to be older and slower. The classic KFM stance involves holding the arms up to protect the head with the elbows projecting forwards.

It's not my ideal martial art for Batman, but I appreciate how Keysi is so undeniably unique to Bale's Batman. It's his thing.

My pet theory is that TDK-era Bale doesn't easily defeat Bane but he still defeats Bane in the end. That's Bale at the top of his form, clearly in his prime and I daresay Bale in TDK can probably defeat at least 99% of the entire world when it comes to hand to hand combat.

I think the fight would be similar to their final encounter in the streets, although with TDK Baleman only being about 20% better than his aged TDK Rises incarnation. I don't see any encounter he had with Hardy's Bane ever being a walkover. 

But how would he do in combat against the villains from the other Batman movies? Is there anyone in the Burton or Schumacher films that might give him trouble? What about the Batmen themselves?

I think he'd beat all the 1989-1997 villains except Freeze.

He'd probably beat Kilmer and Clooney. Keaton would take punishment but he's a strong survivor, and could ultimately end up winning. I don't see Baleman lasting long against Affleck. West's Batman was incredibly strong, an expert escape artist and truly never gave up. I don't think it's farfetched to say West could find a way to get the job done against Bale.

[Silver Nemesis]

The baggage I'm bringing to this is my distaste for high kicks/roundhouse kicks. Basically, my view is that if you aim a kick anywhere above your opponent's waist, you're taking an awful risk for at best a 50/50 chance of scoring damage... and a worse than 50/50 chance of your opponent countering with fight-ending blows to your groin, knee or solar plexus. Maybe some fighters out there can get away with high kicks but I insist that most people should stick with low kicks (if you must kick at all!) and mid/high hand strikes in a combat situation.

Very true. Kicks to the shin or knee, or knees to the groin, can be very effective. But in most real fights, elevating your leg above waist level is merely going to put you off balance and offer your opponent a window of attack. It can work, but most of the time it's not worth the risk. I suppose the stunt team in the Nolan trilogy were trying to reflect that reality, although I suspect Bale's own limitations might also have been a factor since he insisted on performing most of the fight scenes himself.

For starters, on paper, Bale's Batman should be able to defeat Keaton's Batman. But Bale's Batman has a stated preference for preserving life while Keaton's Batman doesn't. So if it meant the difference between winning and losing, Keaton might use lethal force while Bale probably wouldn't. Bale's height and reach advantage would benefit him, esp at the start of the match. But if Keaton decides it's time to cut his losses and plow through, Bale is in a world of trouble. Both Batmen are shown to be capable of using their environments to their advantage but I think Keaton has an edge here.

I thought I'd wait for others to share their views before outlining my own opinion on how Baleman would handle the characters from the other movies, but on this occasion my take on these matchups is exactly the same as yours.

Beginning with the Burton Batman, I imagine a fight between Baleman and Keaton's Bruce would be similar to the Bane fights from TDKR. Keaton was 5'9 in his youth, the same height as Hardy. However, promotional materials list Bane as being 6'0 in TDKR, and Knox describes Batman as being 6'0 in B89, so I guess both characters are meant to be six foot in-universe. Either way, they're the same height. Both employ an economic style of fighting to avoid needlessly expending energy, and both display a high level of durability and metahuman strength. Bat-Keaton doesn't share Bane's immunity to pain, but he also doesn't have the vulnerability of the mask. On top of that he has armour and weapons that Bane lacks.

Baleman's best bet would be to exploit his broader range of martial arts techniques by using clinch holds to immobilise Bat-Keaton. If he could trap him with a joint lock, then he might be able to finish him. But to be honest, I'm leaning towards the Burton Batman on this one. He's more ruthless, and he's the only Batman who has a projectile weapon built into his glove for the express purpose of hitting enemies in the groin (that's not going to go down well with Baleman's lack of lower body defence). I reckon they'd stalemate each other for a while before deploying weapons from their utility belts. But where Bale would start throwing smoke pellets, Keaton would start hurling napalm capsules. If it was purely a matter of skill, and they were fighting out of costume and without weapons, then I might favour the Nolan Batman. But factor in their weaponry and Keaton's willingness to use lethal force and do whatever it takes to end the battle, and I think the Burton Batman would prevail. It'd be a close fight though.

Same thing applies to Affleck. If Affleck squares off with TDKRises Bale, I think he'd have a much easier time. But if it's BB or TDK-era Bale, Affleck will have one hell of a fight ahead of him. Here again tho, mindset figures into it. Affleck from BVS won't hesitate to hit to kill. That means something in this fight. Affleck's armor allows him to survive multiple gunshot wounds with nary a scratch whereas Bale's TDK uniform is explicitly more vulnerable to knives and gunfire and visibly vulnerable to blunt physical trauma. I think Affleck would recognize his opponent's vulnerabilities and exploit them to maximum effect. A ground-and-pound strategy was devastatingly effective against Bale when Bane employed it and I think Affleck would glom onto that eventually as well.

Affleck's age works against him less than Bale's TDKRises age works against Bale. Sheer stamina might be enough to propel BVS Affleck to victory over TDKRises Bale.

Indeed, Affleck's Batman aged better than Bale's and wasn't as compromised by past injuries. The skill gap between these two is marginal and Batfleck is proficient in a sufficiently wide range of martial arts that he could counter anything Baleman throws at him. He also displays superior speed and agility and is more ruthless. He might be stronger too, though I'm not 100% sure of that. I'd say Baleman does have a slight skill advantage, and he's durable enough that he could take a beating from Batfleck and keep fighting. But ultimately Batfleck would wear him down and use lethal methods that Bale himself would be reluctant or unwilling to deploy. Another good fight, but Batfleck wins.

On the subject of ground-and-pound, I almost listed that as one of Bale's fighting techniques. But when I went back and re-watched his first fight with Bane in TDKR I realised that he never really succeeds in using it. He tries pinning Bane and hitting him, but Bane immediately reverses their positions and starts wailing on him. Come to think of it, Ra's and Joker also succeeded in pinning Baleman. So ground fighting could be another area of his fighting style that needs work.

Keaton only ever got pinned down once, and understandably he wasn't in a hurry to free himself.

We'll be seeing new footage of Affleck and Keaton in action over the next couple of years and the fight scenes in those movies will probably expand their martial arts skills. Right now, I'd say the DCEU Batman would likely beat the Burton Batman in a fight. But that could change after The Flash is released...

As far as Adam West is concerned, well, I never bet against him.

West's Batman was incredibly strong, an expert escape artist and truly never gave up. I don't think it's farfetched to say West could find a way to get the job done against Bale.

Oh boy, the West Batman. I am planning to make a thread like this about him at some point, though it'll be fairly short and a lot of it will be concerned with noting strength, speed and durability feats from the TV show. West's physical feats range far beyond those of any other live action Batman and straight into cartoon territory. Fighting him would be like fighting Popeye. He'd stand a very good chance of stomping every character from the later films, but I'll come back to that subject at a later time.

Bale against Schumacher's Bane is interesting because he's kind of similar to Nolan's Bane but much bigger and much stronger. Still, the mask remains Jeep's weakness. Bale has already demonstrated his ability to figure that out in TDKRises and I think he would figure it out against Jeep Bane. Unlike Hardy tho, Bale will take considerable damage from Jeep before putting him down. I just don't see Schumacher's Bane going down without one hell of a fight.

Bale against Mr. Freeze is... a challenge. On the one hand, Freeze isn't really a brawler to begin with. That advantages Bale. But Freeze also wears bulky armor which greatly enhances his strength, which advantages Freeze. Theatricality and deception might be the deciding factors here tho. Freeze repeatedly shows himself to be caught off-guard by the unexpected (Batman bursting through the skylight, Robin busting through the double doors). I think Bale might try softening Freeze up with T&D before making his big push.

If it's straight hand to hand tho, I still have to give the edge to Bale. If he found Bane's mask weakness (and he did), he'd eventually discover a weakness in Freeze's armor.

I think he'd beat all the 1989-1997 villains except Freeze.

Mr. Freeze and Jeep Bane are the villains from the Burton-Schumacher series that I think Baleman would struggle against the most. He obviously outclasses them in terms of speed and skill, but their superhuman strength and durability surpass those of any villain he's ever faced. Freeze is basically a human tank. He takes direct gunfire at close range and the bullets don't even slow him down.

His fighting style is clunky and basic, but his strength is incredible.

Unless Baleman can identify his one weakness and exploit it, then I don't see how he can put him on ice. The Schumacher Batman unloaded everything he had on Freeze, jumping around and hitting him from every angle, but in the end Victor caught him in a stranglehold and would have killed him if Batman hadn't whipped out the bat-heater. Without that device, Batman wouldn't have been able to send him to the cooler.

Jeep Bane is presumably even stronger than Freeze, and he demonstrates wrestling skills that Victor doesn't have. He could prove an even tougher physical opponent for the Nolan Batman. But like Freeze, he has one weakness that can bring him to his knees. The Nolan Batman didn't identify Hardy Bane's mask as a weakness during their first fight, so I'm sceptical he'd go for Jeep Bane's Venom supply. Not unless he had advanced knowledge of what he was dealing with.

Oddly enough, one fight where I'd be greatly concerned about Bale is with the swordsman from B89. Bale's wrist gauntlets would protect him somewhat from the whirling blades but the lack of shin gauntlets combined with Bale's below-the-waist weaknesses could spell disaster for him. If he can't disable the blades in short order somehow (and quickly!), he's in for a world of pain.

That's a good point. At first I dismissed the swordsman, reasoning that since Baleman defeated four League of Shadows warriors he wouldn't have any trouble handling just one swordsman. However, Baleman had trained in the same fighting style as the League of Shadows members, but he didn't necessarily train in the sword fighting techniques used by the Joker goon (played by Muay Thai expert Master Sken). The swordsman directed numerous strikes towards his opponent's lower body. The Burton Batman was equipped to deal with these on account of his fighting style and armour, but I'm not sure the Nolan Batman would be. Baleman is trained in Thai boxing, but we never see him perform shin blocks like the Burton Batman does.

Even if Baleman's armour could prevent the blade from penetrating his flesh – and I'm pretty sure it would – the impact might still be enough to knock him down or at least stagger him. If it were just that one example of Bane striking his knee in TDKR, then we could chalk this weakness up to his advancing age and prior injuries. But the fact is the same thing happened in BB and TDK. All three films in Nolan's trilogy show Batman getting floored by attacks to his lower body. He doesn't defend his legs and is clearly vulnerable in that area. By contrast, the Burton Batman's kickboxing training allowed him to block and absorb numerous attacks to his lower body while sustaining minimal damage.

I still think the Nolan Batman would beat the swordsman, but not with the same ease that Keaton did. He'd probably break the first blade with his bracers, then get staggered by a low blow from the second blade. Eventually he'd intercept the second blade and break that too, then finish off the swordsman with a hammerfist to the face.

On the other hand, I think Baleman would perform better against the final cathedral goon than the Burton Batman did. His knowledge of Ju-Jitsu would allow him to counter the Ray Charles goon's Judo when it came to grappling, and he'd be better equipped to escape from the chokeholds than Bat-Keaton was.

[thecolorsblend]

The most obvious one to start with here is the Keysi Fighting Method, often abbreviated as KFM. This is the foundation of Bruce's martial philosophy in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, though the stunt team modified it for The Dark Knight Rises to allow for the fact that Bruce was meant to be older and slower. The classic KFM stance involves holding the arms up to protect the head with the elbows projecting forwards.

The Nolan Batman adopts this stance in numerous fight scenes.

Didn't want to write War & Peace in my other post. But this is one element of the Nolan Batman's fighting repertoire that's always sort of bugged me.

In its time, Keysi was a pretty innovative and original fighting style to use in any film. The problem that I see is that it's not a completely logical system for arguably any Batman.

The elbows-up default fighting posture of KFM is meant to protect the practitioner's head from trauma. But the whole point of Batman's cowl in-universe for the Nolan trilogy is protecting the head. So a posture of protecting the head is redundant.

Worse, it enhances Bale's below-the-waist vulnerabilities. KFM protects something that's already protected while exposing a massive weak spot. Several Taekwondo postures allow for minimizing below-the-waist vulnerability while minimizing the below-the-waist target area from a frontal assault.


Horse stance. This posture lowers the student's center of gravity while allowing him to shift his weight and balance as necessary to counter the opponent's movements.


This posture is one I always associated more with Shaolin than with Taekwondo. In fact, before seeing this picture, I have literally never seen this posture in a Taekwondo context. Nevertheless, it still offers some tactical response to a frontal assault (but not ground-and-pound) (and I imagine it would be impractical when fighting multiple opponents from multiple angles).


The junbi posture would be an improvement over the default KFM posture for Bale. This is meant to illustrate the movements into junbi; these are not separate postures but rather they are the movements the student uses to assume junbi. From junbi, the student can shift into horse stance or the below forward stance with relative ease, relatively quickly.

In a tournament, I once went from junbi into the splits to avoid a roundhouse kick and then rose from the ground to drive a punch into my opponent's chest. I was quite flexible back then. Inasmuch as it was a tournament, my move was considered a "knock down" for me and so my opponent was awarded the point. But, if nothing else, I proved to myself that junbi is quite versatile and allows for unpredictability. My opponent expected me to shift into horse stance to allow me to maintain my balance while blocking his roundhouse kick. He was utterly unprepared for the shift into splits and counter-strike.

If it helps, the tournament was conducted on smooth, slick flooring similar to a basketball court, which is how I was able to shift into the splits so quickly. In a more conventional setting that doesn't have slick floors and outside controlled tournament settings, going into the splits is one helluva risk and one I do not recommend.


This posture might be the overall best... for a student not wearing a cape. It minimizes targets below-the-waist, it has a built in defense against the exposed low target and it is already positioned for a counter-blow with (in the diagram) the student's right fist. It is uniquely vulnerable to a krav maga knee-kick but that technique is probably only known by 1 in 100 (if that) possible opponents you might face so I'd call this posture a calculated risk for Batman. In the final analysis, every possible beginning posture from any school is vulnerable to something anyway.

Frankly, none of these postures account for attacks from behind or the sides (except possibly the horse stance, but I think that would technically be a modification of the original technique). These are very much one-on-one defensive postures which, used properly, would allow the student to defend virtually an attack and counter many of them. These seem like very logical postures to adopt when the student's head is already protected and the student has a known weakness for below-the-waist attacks.

[Silver Nemesis]

You've highlighted a logical weakness in the Nolan Batman's use of KFM. It makes sense for Bruce to use it before he gets the suit. But the emphasis it places on protecting the head and upper body, which are traditionally the most heavily armoured areas of Batman's costume, renders it somewhat redundant once he suits up.

This posture might be the overall best... for a student not wearing a cape. It minimizes targets below-the-waist, it has a built in defense against the exposed low target and it is already positioned for a counter-blow with (in the diagram) the student's right fist. It is uniquely vulnerable to a krav maga knee-kick but that technique is probably only known by 1 in 100 (if that) possible opponents you might face so I'd call this posture a calculated risk for Batman. In the final analysis, every possible beginning posture from any school is vulnerable to something anyway.

My knowledge of Taekwondo stances is entirely limited to what I've learnt in this thread, but looking at the following publicity shot of Keaton (I assume this is Keaton, but it could just be his head superimposed over Dave Lea's body), is it possible he's attempting to strike this stance here? I know it's not exactly the same, but the positioning of his arm over his advanced leg is similar.

We established in the thread on the Burton Batman's fighting style that the type of kickboxing Keaton trained in was most likely a fusion of Taekwondo and Shotokan Karate. Perhaps he (or his stunt double) adopted one of the stances he was taught for this photo, then altered it in accordance with the photographer's directions. From what I remember, he never uses a stance like this in the actual film.

Returning to the Nolan Batman, the consensus in this thread is that he would beat the Schumacher Batman in a fight. But here's another scenario: the Nolan Batman vs. the Schumacher Batman and Robin at the same time. Think of the Ozymandias vs. Rorschach and Nite Owl II fight scene from Watchmen (2009), only with these guys as the combatants.

This is prime Baleman from BB and TDK rather than the broken down version from TDKR, and the Schumacher Batman here is a composite of Kilmer and Clooney that combines both of their skills, strengths and weaknesses.

I believe Baleman could take either of these characters in a one-on-one fight, but I'm doubtful he could beat them simultaneously. It all depends on how well the Schumacher Batman and Robin function as a team. Robin could be a useful asset when he followed Batman's lead, such as when they fought side by side at the museum or the auction in B&R. At other times his hotheadedness made him a liability, like when he raced ahead on Claw Island and was captured by Two-Face or when he got frozen by Freeze. If the Nolan Batman could exploit Robin's carelessness, he might be able to take him out of the equation early in the fight or else exploit him as a distraction against the Schumacher Batman.

Robin's not up to Baleman's skill level, but he trumps him in terms of agility and has some flashy moves that might just catch him off guard.

All things considered, I'm leaning heavily towards team Schumacher on this one. For a bonus round, let's even the sides out and give Baleman Hathaway's Catwoman for an ally. On the surface I don't think she's too much of a threat to team Schumacher, but take into account the fact that Robin was easily distracted by attractive women and she might prove very useful.

[thecolorsblend]

Returning to the Nolan Batman, the consensus in this thread is that he would beat the Schumacher Batman in a fight. But here's another scenario: the Nolan Batman vs. the Schumacher Batman and Robin at the same time. Think of the Ozymandias vs. Rorschach and Nite Owl II fight scene from Watchmen (2009), only with these guys as the combatants.

This is prime Baleman from BB and TDK rather than the broken down version from TDKR, and the Schumacher Batman here is a composite of Kilmer and Clooney that combines both of their skills, strengths and weaknesses.

I believe Baleman could take either of these characters in a one-on-one fight, but I'm doubtful he could beat them simultaneously. It all depends on how well the Schumacher Batman and Robin function as a team. Robin could be a useful asset when he followed Batman's lead, such as when they fought side by side at the museum or the auction in B&R. At other times his hotheadedness made him a liability, like when he raced ahead on Claw Island and was captured by Two-Face or when he got frozen by Freeze. If the Nolan Batman could exploit Robin's carelessness, he might be able to take him out of the equation early in the fight or else exploit him as a distraction against the Schumacher Batman.

Robin's not up to Baleman's skill level, but he trumps him in terms of agility and has some flashy moves that might just catch him off guard.

All things considered, I'm leaning heavily towards team Schumacher on this one. For a bonus round, let's even the sides out and give Baleman Hathaway's Catwoman for an ally. On the surface I don't think she's too much of a threat to team Schumacher, but take into account the fact that Robin was easily distracted by attractive women and she might prove very useful.

A bout between Bale and the Schumacher team is interesting. I'm not prepared to count Bale out right away.

Location, location, location. If the fight takes place in an open space, it's possible that Kilmer and Robin could overwhelm Bale's defenses with acrobatics and whatnot. So I think the key to victory would be Bale selecting a relatively enclosed space similar in size to a hallway. That would cut down on any teamwork Kilmer and Robin might attempt while also eliminating their attempts to flank him.

From there, I think theatricality and deception would be the next step. Kilmer would probably see through T&D easily but I have to assume Robin would be caught off-guard by it.

As I see it, the key in this battle is immobilizing Robin as early as possible. Once Bale isolates Kilmer, well, we can guess how that ends.

But if it's just straight up skill to skill, no question, Bale loses. His only hope is to use tactics and strategy to gain the upper hand. Bale's showdown with the League Of Shadows ninjas in BB and capturing Lao from LSI Holdings in TDK make me reasonably confident that Bale could figure out a way to split Kilmer and Robin up.

But if Bale has Hathaway in his back pocket, yeah, it's definitely his victory.

[The Dark Knight]

I'm talking to the martial arts masters here, so any idea what style Pattinson is using in these GIFS?





An early predictions as to how he would fare against other Batmen, based on these few seconds?

[thecolorsblend]

I'm talking to the martial arts masters here, so any idea what style Pattinson is using in these GIFS?





An early predictions as to how he would fare against other Batmen, based on these few seconds?

I will defer to SN on this. But the first gif is too brief to rly show much of which school Pattinson is using. It could be any of a number of things.

The second gif reminds me of clinch-fighting, where a student attempts a clinch-hold to partially immobilize an opponent while counter-striking hard and repeatedly. It's sort of an MMA thing that can be used by either boxers, Muay Thai fighters or what have you. Realistically, once the clinch is initiated, Pattinson could use punches, elbow strikes, knee-kicks or whatever to subdue his opponent. The fact that he chose punching to do so is telling, I think.

I went on the record in some thread (Keaton's fighting style?) with my belief that old school boxing would probably be anybody's best bet with irl combat in 90% of cases. I'm not saying Reeves agrees with me there but the punches mean something.

As to the philosophy behind the punches, Pattinson seems focused on subduing opponents as quickly as possible. And brutality is pretty much the only non-lethal way of getting there. His speed and obvious strength displayed in the second gif make him a threat to virtually all Batmen we've discussed. Based on the second gif, Bale's protective cowl will be of considerable help to him but when you get knocked down, you get knocked down, period.

I want to see more of Pattinson's moves but so far he's got speed, immense strength and solid balance. Any way you care to slice it, he's highly dangerous and not to be trifled with.

[Silver Nemesis]

A bout between Bale and the Schumacher team is interesting. I'm not prepared to count Bale out right away.

Location, location, location. If the fight takes place in an open space, it's possible that Kilmer and Robin could overwhelm Bale's defenses with acrobatics and whatnot. So I think the key to victory would be Bale selecting a relatively enclosed space similar in size to a hallway. That would cut down on any teamwork Kilmer and Robin might attempt while also eliminating their attempts to flank him.

From there, I think theatricality and deception would be the next step. Kilmer would probably see through T&D easily but I have to assume Robin would be caught off-guard by it.

As I see it, the key in this battle is immobilizing Robin as early as possible. Once Bale isolates Kilmer, well, we can guess how that ends.

But if it's just straight up skill to skill, no question, Bale loses. His only hope is to use tactics and strategy to gain the upper hand. Bale's showdown with the League Of Shadows ninjas in BB and capturing Lao from LSI Holdings in TDK make me reasonably confident that Bale could figure out a way to split Kilmer and Robin up.

But if Bale has Hathaway in his back pocket, yeah, it's definitely his victory.

I really should have specified which suit the Schumacher Batman is wearing, since that could be a deciding factor here. The Schumacher Batman and Robin don't use stealth techniques the way the other Batmen do, and therefore might be susceptible to Baleman's theatricality and deception. However, if the Schumacher Batman is wearing his sonar suit then that would effectively render the Nolan Batman's stealth techniques useless. He'd be able to see through any darkness or smoke that Baleman might deploy against him.

Unless of course Baleman used his EMP gadget to take out the lights. Presumably the pulse would also knock out the electrics in the Schumacher Batman's sonar suit (unless it was insulated against EMP attacks), reducing its effectiveness to that of an ordinary batsuit.

I'm talking to the martial arts masters here, so any idea what style Pattinson is using in these GIFS?





An early predictions as to how he would fare against other Batmen, based on these few seconds?

Catwoman's fighting style here definitely looks like the Brazilian martial art of Capoeira.

As for Battinson, normally I'd say it was impossible to tell from such short clips. However, the fighting stance he uses in that first gif – placing his weight on his back foot, fists clenched to tense his forearm muscles, and arms raised to guard his head – resembles the fighting stance I was taught in Ju-Jitsu classes. So I'm guessing he's trained in some form of Ju-Jitsu, be it Japanese or Brazilian.

Also note how in the second gif he keeps hold of his opponent's weapon hand to incapacitate him. As colors says, that's a clinch-fighting move. Batman punches him once, follows this up with a backhand, then jerks his opponent's arm upwards to apply pressure to the elbow joint before hitting him a third time. That's a Ju-Jitsu technique.

The final two punches he lands on the thug who attacked him...

...demonstrates some good ol' fashioned ground-and-pound action, such as you'd expect from an MMA fighter, while those haymakers he was throwing earlier suggest he's trained in boxing. If I'm right, then his fighting style will likely be similar to that of the Nolan Batman.

The fact he was able to read Catwoman's body language and evade her attack without being tagged indicates he might also have some familiarity with the Capoeira style she was using. Though I'm doubtful he'll employ similar techniques himself, simply because his cape would get in the way.

As to the philosophy behind the punches, Pattinson seems focused on subduing opponents as quickly as possible. And brutality is pretty much the only non-lethal way of getting there. His speed and obvious strength displayed in the second gif make him a threat to virtually all Batmen we've discussed. Based on the second gif, Bale's protective cowl will be of considerable help to him but when you get knocked down, you get knocked down, period.

I want to see more of Pattinson's moves but so far he's got speed, immense strength and solid balance. Any way you care to slice it, he's highly dangerous and not to be trifled with.

His striking speed there already looks faster than that of the Schumacher and Nolan Batmen. By my count, he lands seven or eight punches in about four and a half seconds.

A psychological factor can be observed in the way Pattinson doesn't allow himself to get hit in these clips. He dodges Catwoman's attack and blocks the attack by the other guy. This might not be indicative of how he always fights, but if he consistently evades and blocks attacks throughout the movie then that demonstrates one way his fighting style diverges from Baleman's KFM.