Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021)

[The Dark Knight]

Golly, so this happened.



A Netflix exclusivity deal for all theatrically-released Spider-Man movies. If I didn't know better, I'd think Sony just fired a shot across the bow at Marvel.

I don't like this trend but it's a trend nonetheless. So HBO Max needs to get their act together. The service itself isn't the best, as Nolan has observed. They need worthwhile content on there otherwise they're really firing blanks. I'm not a Disney fan, but look at the absolute smorgasbord they're preparing for Disney Plus to the point they're drowning the brand. The GCPD show has my interest but they need something more.

I'm looking forward to No Way Home. Holland isn't my preference but I've accepted it's a take as valid as Maguire or any other weird alternative universe incarnation we see in the Spider-Verse. In that context, points of difference can compliment each other when they're directly presented opposite one another.

[The Joker]

Alfred Molina confirms his involvement as Doc Ock.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/alfred-molina-spider-man-no-way-home-doc-ock-1234953527/

Apr 16, 2021 2:46pm PT
Alfred Molina Details Doc Ock's Return in 'Spider-Man: No Way Home': 'The Tentacles Do All the Work' (EXCLUSIVE)

When Alfred Molina was first invited to reprise his role as the villainous Otto Octavius in "Spider-Man: No Way Home" — the forthcoming third installment of the Marvel Cinematic Universe Spider-Man films, led by Tom Holland — he said he was told to keep it quiet.

"When we were shooting it, we were all under orders not to talk about it, because it was supposed to be some great big secret," Molina said with a laugh during an interview with Variety about his role in the Oscar-nominated "Promising Young Woman." "But, you know, it's all over the internet. I actually described myself as the worst kept secret in Hollywood!"

Instead, not only did Molina confirm his involvement in "No Way Home," he happily detailed his experience making the movie, and returning to a part he first played in Sam Raimi's "Spider-Man 2" in 2004.

"It was wonderful," he said. "It was very interesting going back after 17 years to play the same role, given that in the intervening years, I now have two chins, a wattle, crow's feet and a slightly a slightly dodgy lower back."

When the actor asked Jon Watts, the director of "No Way Home," how the movie would bring Doc Ock back — since, as he pointed out, "I died" — Molina said the director told him, "In this universe, no one really dies."

In "Spider-Man 2," Molina played scientist Otto Octavius, who was poised to be a mentor to Tobey Maguire's Peter Parker when a lab accident turns him into the the murderous Doctor Octopus, or Doc Ock for short — so named for the four mechanical arms fused into his back. On the orders Harry Osborn (James Franco), the tentacled, unhinged Doc Ock's obsession with perfecting his experimental fusion reactor sets him against Peter/Spider-Man and Mary Jane (Kirsten Dunst), and endangers all of New York City. In the movie's climactic scene, Peter appeals to Otto's good side, and he drowns himself and his reactor in the East River before the city is destroyed.

In their early conversations, Molina said, Watts told him that the movie will pick up Doc Ock's story from "that moment" in the river, which in a franchise that include multiverses, time-travel and diverging timelines seems...plausible enough.

Molina's concerns were more practical. He said that he asked Watts how they were going to deal with the fact that at 67, he's aged since the 2004 film.

"He just looked at me, and said, 'Did you see what we did to Bob Downey Jr. and Sam Jackson?'" Molina said with a laugh. In 2016's "Captain America: Civil War," Marvel Studios used CGI to de-age Robert Downey Jr. to look as he did in 1991; and in 2019's "Captain Marvel," also set in the 1990s, a de-aged Samuel L. Jackson played a younger version of his character, Nick Fury.

Molina also cited Martin Scorsese's "The Irishman" as an example of digital de-aging — and its limitations.

"They made Robert De Niro's face younger, but when he was fighting, he looked like an older guy," Molina said. "He looked like an old guy! That's what that's what worried me about doing it again."

"I don't have the same physicality that I had 17 years ago," he continued. "That's just a fact."

Molina realized, though, that the nature of the role would save him. "I then remembered that it's the tentacles that do all the work!"

He sat up straight in his seat. "My basic physical move as Doc Ock, as the actor, is just this," he said as he glared intensely at the Zoom camera and made a menacing noise. "I just do that a lot, and the arms are doing all the killing and smashing and breaking. I'm just going —" he glared again — "with a kind of mean look on my face."

"It was fantastic."

Neither Sony Pictures nor Marvel Studios, which are co-producing "Spider-Man: No Way Home," has confirmed Molina's return, but news of his casting leaked last year, along with reports that Jamie Foxx will also appear as Electro, the villain he played in "The Amazing Spider-Man 2." Later, Zendaya — another "Spider-Man" lead actor — seemingly confirmed Molina's casting during a conversation with Carey Mulligan for Variety's Actors on Actors series.

The casting of Molina and Foxx would unite the three generations of Spider-Man movies: The Maguire/Raimi cycle, the Marc Webb/Andrew Garfield installments and the newest Spider-Mans, starring Holland and directed by Watts.

Evidently, this will continue the story of Doc Ock from the Raimiverse. Sounds like they are really going to go with Ock being "The Master Planner" with this one, especially if it comes out he's been aware of the MCU multiverse and other Spider-Men for some time now.

[Gotham Knight]

Another big rumor from a supposedly reliable source is saying that Dafoe ends up being the big bad. He's supposed to kill someone (they're unsure who) and cause Holland's Spiderman to nearly murder.

[thecolorsblend]

Another big rumor from a supposedly reliable source is saying that Dafoe ends up being the big bad. He's supposed to kill someone (they're unsure who) and cause Holland's Spiderman to nearly murder.

Hm. Norman Osborn as the power behind the scenes. Shades of the Clone Saga...

[The Dark Knight]

A very creative writer could somehow twist the ending of SM2 to say Ock was sucked into a multiverse portal that happened to appear at the moment his body descended into New York Harbor - explaining his absence in SM3 and beyond.

There are several ways to attack this plotline and it looks like something similar to the above has been chosen. Interesting to say the least, especially if Doc Ock is the same age as he was in 2004, while Peter has aged. It would be mind bending if it's been a long time between meetings for Peter but not Ock. I'll have to ponder all the possibilities a little more. 

Another big rumor from a supposedly reliable source is saying that Dafoe ends up being the big bad. He's supposed to kill someone (they're unsure who) and cause Holland's Spiderman to nearly murder.

I've read the outline and from a Maguire/Garfield point of view there should be enough meat on the bone to satisfy my enthusiasm. Because it's to be expected the incumbent receives the lion's share of the runtime and is the focus of the narrative. As for the other detail, it's completely possible Holland develops a connection with another Multiverse character and reacts badly when Goblin kills them. But it would carry more weight if it's his own MJ, Aunt May, etc.

[thecolorsblend]

I've read the outline and from a Maguire/Garfield point of view there should be enough meat on the bone to satisfy my enthusiasm. Because it's to be expected the incumbent receives the lion's share of the runtime and is the focus of the narrative. As for the other detail, it's completely possible Holland develops a connection with another Multiverse character and reacts badly when Goblin kills them. But it would carry more weight if it's his own MJ, Aunt May, etc.

Yeah, but I don't rly want to see those Spider-Men die. I get it, actors love dramatic death scenes and stuff. But I don't like the optics of clearing the decks of every other version of a character so that the new guy can have a monopoly.

I mean, not for nothing but I'll never forgive the Arrowverse for wiping out the Smallvilleverse. F everybody who approved that idea.

[Gotham Knight]

It is worth noting that the 'Dafoe is the big bad' has now been verified by at least one other 'insider.' Grain of salt, but with what Alfred Molina had to say...the cat is out of the bag. Dafoe was spotted near the set. We know he's in it. Maybe it is just good guess work based on the castings, but I'm inclined to believe it now.

The final fight is described as being one of the biggest in film history. It took a month to film. Although some of the details are not clear to the leaker, who claims to only have been privy to little pieces of info, they mentioned that one of Stark's arc reactors becomes an object of desire during the hoopla and that the final confrontation between Green Goblin and Holland's Spider-Man involves a fight on top of the Statue of Liberty who now has a Captain America shield instead of a torch.

My guess is that if indeed this is true (which it may not be) Goblin slips away in the fight and goes personal. He has a history with that as we all know from the classic Stacy story line, but this iteration used it to almost win. "First, we attack his heart!" I'm sure he knows that this Spidey has an Aunt May and an MJ.

[The Dark Knight]

My guess is that if indeed this is true (which it may not be) Goblin slips away in the fight and goes personal. He has a history with that as we all know from the classic Stacy story line, but this iteration used it to almost win. "First, we attack his heart!" I'm sure he knows that this Spidey has an Aunt May and an MJ.

I'd prefer that. This Peter hasn't encountered loss before, unlike Maguire and Garfield. They could console him through the grieving process.

Edit: Forgot Tony Stark. But he shouldn't really count as a close Peter Parker ally/friend.

[eledoremassis02]

If Norman comes back, I'm assuming both him and Ock are dead and somehow brought back? I don't see how this won't mess up the original Raimi timeline. Also poor Harry if he remains dead

[The Joker]

Yeah, I can kinda buy Ock being pulled into another dimension/revived via the tentacle A.I., but William Dafoe's Norman Osborn death was pretty definitive in the Raimi trilogy. Going off purely from what we've heard of Dafoe's time on the set, it sure came across like his participation was going to be a cameo and that's it. Possibly a memory/flashback of some unseen occurance/encounter during the events of 2002's Spider-Man.

Now we are hearing Dafoe's Norman Osborn Green Goblin is an active part of the plot itself, and (supposedly) the leader of the Sinister Six. Can't say I'm a big fan of that idea. It's nice that Dafoe is back, sure (even especially so in this current MCU incarnation). However, the Sinister Six was Doc Ock's baby and I never personally liked when Marvel tried to shoehorn Norman in there as the leader of the group like they did in the "Ultimate Six" mini that was basically the Sinister Six in the Ultimate Marvel Universe, nor of the "Sinister 12" arc in the 616 universe they tried which came across like overkill of the original concept. Which is funnily enough, ironic. Due to Norman's manic personality, he would probably literally do something like that.

In addition, it's kinda amazing that Ock and Gobby never really had much interactions with one another to speak of (hell, it's surprising just how few appearances Norman's Green Goblin actually had until he was originally killed off back in ASM#122!) up to the whole "Superior Spider-Man" arc that was happening in the mid 2010's. If going off of that, Ock & Goblin (much like their Ultimate counterparts) would not be fans of one another, and there would be some internal power struggles going on within a Sinister Six. As their egos simply cannot allow for a long standing unanimity. They are the alpha's of Spider-Man's rogues gallery, and I couldn't see either one taking orders from the other for very long, or if at all. There's something incredibly simplistic and easy to comprehend about a criminal mastermind rounding up super powered villains, and aiming their combined wrath at a particular individual (such as was the original Sinister Six concept). Rather than going with the MCU concept of pulling villains from alternate earths, possible internal conflict thanks to shoehorning Gobby as the leader, Doc Strange involvement, another death (watch it be Happy Hogan, which would be amusing and very MCU like), ect ect.

Unlike Far from Home, I will likely check this out in the theaters. As my interest is piqued thanks to the non-standard MCU players, but I just don't know how I feel about some of the leaks I've recently read about. We'll see....