Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021)

[The Dark Knight]

Maguire and Garfield have to play the same versions of Peter they played in the past, or else their inclusion is pointless. But with the villains, I have no problem with them playing new versions of their characters. In the case of Doc Ock, I might actually prefer that approach. That way we can see Molina return while at the same time preserving Otto's poignant demise at the end of Spider-Man 2. I can imagine Maguire's Spider-Man encountering a new Doc Ock and mistakenly assuming it's the one he knew, only to then realise that this version of Otto is far more evil and beyond redemption. Perhaps he hails from an alternate reality where he succeeded in killing Spider-Man and destroyed Manhattan with his experiment. That angle has the potential to be more interesting than simply retconning his death at the end of SM2. I also like the idea of Stone playing a Spider-Gwen from another reality where Peter was killed, and then have her and Garfield's Spider-Man forgive and emotionally heal one another. But with Maguire and Garfield, they have to play the same versions they played before. So far I've seen no evidence to suggest that they won't, so I'm not worried about this.

Maguire and Garfield being the same incarnations as seen in previous films is non negotiable. That has to happen.

I see your point about Molina's Ock, and it's well made. It would be easy to believe he drowned and that was it. It could actually play well against an alternate universe Gwen, providing a contrast and regression/growth based on what Maguire/Garfield knew of their demises. My concern would be giving alive incarnations such as Sandman the alternate universe treatment when it's not essential.

[The Joker]

I've given some thought to the prospect of a MCU version of Doc Ock, rather than the Raimiverse Ock returning, aaannd ........ I'm still not feeling it.

To me, it takes away a lot of the oomph in said actor returning, because you associate the actor with the incarnation that he appeared as. Being that this isn't just a couple of years of digestion, but, what? 17 years now? That specific cinematic version of Doc Ock is very much ingrained as a classic portrayal. Same as the movie itself being regarded as a top tier, if not at the very top, Spider-Man movie thus far.

One of the things about the Raimiverse Ock that differs from the comic book source material, is that it's conveyed that he's being, essentially, manipulated (or at the very least, egged on constantly) by the tentacle sentient A.I. unleashed thanks to the inhibitor chip being destroyed. The Stan Lee/Ditko Doc Ock, was said to have suffered brain damage during the same accident that gave him the capability to control his tentacle harness that was then, wielded to his body. The 'brain damage' route is a viable option in the notion of a returning Raimiverse Ock. Who's to say that the fading tentacles, when we last see a submerged Otto, didn't implement a last ditch emergency backup source and was able to save him? A lack of oxygen to the brain can cause brain damage, along with memory loss. Realizing this, the sentient A.I. uses this to their advantage, and convinces Ock that not only did Spider-Man, once again, ruin his objective, but also attempted to murder him. None the wiser, Otto perhaps immediately, perhaps not, submits into this narrative and begins exploring other 'possibilities'. Maybe even unintentionally stumbling into the realization that a multiverse exists. With this knowledge, Doc Ock becomes the "Master Planner" and begins assembling a formidable team. Which would work out marvelously if they go the Sinister Six route.

Plus, the idea that the last time we see Raimi's Doc Ock is underwater is interesting. Since it was established during the "Master Planner" story line way back in the day, Ock actually had a underwater lair built. This coupled with fighting Spider-Man underwater being Ock's choice of battle during the very 1st Sinister Six appearance. Was Raimi planting the seeds for this? Hard to say. But I think Raimi has stated that he was a big fan of the Lee/Ditko/Romita era of Spider-Man, so maybe?

I get the idea of his "death" being poignant, but I don't think bringing him back would tear down this character arc. If you go with the notion that Ock is more unhinged, and perhaps has been for years, only to realize/discover the truth of what happened during the nuclear reactor battle, I think his deciding to go against the Sinister Six to atone for his mistakes would keep his 'tragic' character depiction intact.

Actually, the idea of Doc Ock betraying the Sinister Six isn't a new concept whatsoever to be perfectly honest. Despite being seen by villains as a leader of sorts, the guy isn't to be trusted. It's just that in the comics, his betrayals is decidedly more self serving, than anything having to do with being remotely heroic.

[The Dark Knight]

Who's to say that the fading tentacles, when we last see a submerged Otto, didn't implement a last ditch emergency backup source and was able to save him? A lack of oxygen to the brain can cause brain damage, along with memory loss. Realizing this, the sentient A.I. uses this to their advantage, and convinces Ock that not only did Spider-Man, once again, ruin his objective, but also attempted to murder him. None the wiser, Otto perhaps immediately, perhaps not, submits into this narrative and begins exploring other 'possibilities'. Maybe even unintentionally stumbling into the realization that a multiverse exists. With this knowledge, Doc Ock becomes the "Master Planner" and begins assembling a formidable team. Which would work out marvelously if they go the Sinister Six route.

Plus, the idea that the last time we see Raimi's Doc Ock is underwater is interesting. Since it was established during the "Master Planner" story line way back in the day, Ock actually had a underwater lair built. This coupled with fighting Spider-Man underwater being Ock's choice of battle during the very 1st Sinister Six appearance. Was Raimi planting the seeds for this? Hard to say. But I think Raimi has stated that he was a big fan of the Lee/Ditko/Romita era of Spider-Man, so maybe?

Doc Ock appeared to be a man on a very specific mission in SM2.

He was all about the reactor project. Would he have the time to construct an underwater base of some kind, and why would he even want to? He didn't seem to be that type of supervillain in the Raimi context. He had good intentions that would have destroyed the city by default.

A very creative writer could somehow twist the ending of SM2 to say Ock was sucked into a multiverse portal that happened to appear at the moment his body descended into New York Harbor - explaining his absence in SM3 and beyond. But I don't know, ol' Joker. Like what Nolan decided to do with Dent, perhaps it's just easier to say he's dead and that's it.

Funny, because "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" applies to each of them but in the reverse.

[The Joker]

Comic book logic, like that of comic book film adaptations, is pretty flexible to say the very least. We're 17 years removed from SM2. More than that when the next MCU Spidey comes out, and that's plenty of time to build a underwater base. Why would he want to? Beats me. Just use whatever explanation (given there was one to begin with) in the original "Master Planner" story line (to which I think was the first story line of Ock's where we see he has followers working for him), or state it's for mere practical purposes. As abandoned, decaying warehouses might not be the most ideal locations for whatever he's been keeping himself busy with for all these years. We're not dealing with a "hyper realism" take like Nolan, or the speedy Dent-Two-Face arc we got in 'The Dark Knight' (and even the attempt at realism is wonky at times). Hyper realism just isn't something that applies to either the Raimiverse, or the MCU for that matter.

Course, bringing back the Raimiverse Ock is probably the more unlikely of the two scenarios when debating if we're just going to get MCU versions of past villains, or Raimiverse/Webb villains brought back into the fold. The precedent for a superior MCU version is already there (yeah I'm being sarcastic of course) with the debut of MCU Alex Jones-JJJ in "Far From Home", and just introducing a villain from a different time line kinda makes me think of Thanos from "Endgame" as well. Since that Endgame Thanos came from a timeline where he had very little knowledge of the battles/experiences the "Infinity War" Thanos had went thru. I only bothered to watch the film once, but I do recall Endgame Thanos stating during a fight, "I don't even know who you are!". Indicating that the fight was something of a rematch, with only one of the participants having any knowledge of the previous event.

Kinda takes the oomph out of said battle, in my estimation. As it makes the confrontation build up in the conclusion of the film between the hero/villain much less engaging due to purposely making any such long standing hostility/history between the characters being, essentially, directed only one way.

[Silver Nemesis]

ComicBook.com is reporting that Charlie Cox has finished shooting his scenes for Spider-Man 3.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/daredevil-charlie-cox-scenes-spider-man-3-tom-holland/

It's still not even confirmed that he's in it, but I hope this is true.

[The Dark Knight]

ComicBook.com is reporting that Charlie Cox has finished shooting his scenes for Spider-Man 3.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/daredevil-charlie-cox-scenes-spider-man-3-tom-holland/

It's still not even confirmed that he's in it, but I hope this is true.

Promising in any case.

SM2 was such a huge part of my childhood. Raimi and Maguire captured a mood that spoke to my soul and still does. I really think the musical choice of Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head by BJ Thomas encapsulates my feelings. "But there's one thing I know, the blues they send to meet me won't defeat me. It won't be long til happiness steps up to greet me." THAT is Spider-Man to me. The optimistic but tortured individual who persists. If Tobey is spotted on set I'm going to be very happy indeed.

It would be fantastic if each Spidey actor appeared with their own unique theme playing. Tobey getting Elfman, obviously. For Garfield I'd go with Zimmer, with a rendition similar to what we hear in Cold War.

[thecolorsblend]

It would be fantastic if each Spidey actor appeared with their own unique theme playing. Tobey getting Elfman, obviously. For Garfield I'd go with Zimmer, with a rendition similar to what we hear in Cold War.

Spot on.

[Silver Nemesis]

Willem Dafoe has reportedly been seen on set: https://thegww.com/willem-dafoe-spotted-on-set-for-untitiled-spider-man-3/

[BatmanFurst]

Willem Dafoe has reportedly been seen on set: https://thegww.com/willem-dafoe-spotted-on-set-for-untitiled-spider-man-3/

I saw this posted somewhere else as well. Really wish I didn't know that.

[Silver Nemesis]

I'll rename this thread once the film's title is announced.