Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021)

[The Dark Knight]

I'm in a very similar place to colors in liking crime, bio type movies especially right now. I really like the intense, personal darkness of productions like JOKER, and judging by what we've seen, THE BATMAN. I'm excited about the power of performance, much like how Michelle Pfeiffer went nuts in BR. Acting is what makes film, as Joaquin Phoenix showed.

Strip away all the CGI and what do we have? Zack Snyder is a rare beast in that he uses challenging mental concepts in tandem with a visual extravaganza. I mean, look at the reaction to MoS/BvS. He does big movies like that right, and they do feel like a special event and not just another movie. I put The Matrix, its sequels and hopefully The Matrix 4 in that same category.   

I'm a Keaton and Maguire fan, so I'm naturally enthusiastic about them coming back. But anything outside that? It takes more to convince me, particularly with characters outside my circle. I'm primarily DC (and even then mostly just the trinity) and pretty much only Spider-Man with Marvel. I haven't seen any of the Avengers movies since the second one. My mind just isn't there.

I'm to the point now where I'm... not fed up with comic book films but I do go a bit out of my way to avoid them. You give me a choice between an old episode of Dexter and [insert comic book movie here], I'll probably watch Dexter. Even if it's season 08 Dexter!

Sensational show. Can't wait for the new set of episodes to be aired next year. I can hear the Blood Theme playing in my mind right now.

[The Joker]

Having Maguire and Dunst back is great. Having Alfred Molina reprise Doc Ock is just icing on the cake.

Not sure how I feel about Cox's return as Daredevil is this if that's the case. The netflix show felt 'dark and gritty'. With a decidedly adult take on the character. How that can be reconciled with that take on Daredevil suddenly being inserted into the MCU 'formula' approach to storytelling, is going to be interesting to say the very least.

[thecolorsblend]

Having Maguire and Dunst back is great. Having Alfred Molina reprise Doc Ock is just icing on the cake.

Not sure how I feel about Cox's return as Daredevil is this if that's the case. The netflix show felt 'dark and gritty'. With a decidedly adult take on the character. How that can be reconciled with that take on Daredevil suddenly being inserted into the MCU 'formula' approach to storytelling, is going to be interesting to say the very least.

The MCU started on a light but serious note. It's become more and more comedic as time goes on.

Maybe inserting Cox's Daredevil will mature the MCU a bit? What I'm hoping is this is Netflix's Daredevil in the MCU and Cox isn't fan-service and a clever attempt at avoiding a wholesale reboot of the character.

[The Laughing Fish]

Having Maguire and Dunst back is great. Having Alfred Molina reprise Doc Ock is just icing on the cake.

Not sure how I feel about Cox's return as Daredevil is this if that's the case. The netflix show felt 'dark and gritty'. With a decidedly adult take on the character. How that can be reconciled with that take on Daredevil suddenly being inserted into the MCU 'formula' approach to storytelling, is going to be interesting to say the very least.

The MCU started on a light but serious note. It's become more and more comedic as time goes on.

Maybe inserting Cox's Daredevil will mature the MCU a bit? What I'm hoping is this is Netflix's Daredevil in the MCU and Cox isn't fan-service and a clever attempt at avoiding a wholesale reboot of the character.

I heard a rumour that if Cox were to make his return as Daredevil in this film, he would be playing another version of Daredevil. Not the one that Netflix had established.

If that were true then I'll definitely say "no thanks".

[The Dark Knight]

Not sure how I feel about Cox's return as Daredevil is this if that's the case. The netflix show felt 'dark and gritty'. With a decidedly adult take on the character. How that can be reconciled with that take on Daredevil suddenly being inserted into the MCU 'formula' approach to storytelling, is going to be interesting to say the very least.

There's talk he could be Peter's lawyer.

[The Joker]

The MCU started on a light but serious note. It's become more and more comedic as time goes on.

Maybe inserting Cox's Daredevil will mature the MCU a bit? What I'm hoping is this is Netflix's Daredevil in the MCU and Cox isn't fan-service and a clever attempt at avoiding a wholesale reboot of the character.

If history has taught us anything, especially with Disney, is that the character will be made to conform to the MCU, rather than attempting to actually serve the character. Case in point; MCU Spider-Man.

I would love for the MCU to mature, if even just slightly, but I just don't have much faith in Cox's Daredevil entering the MCU and not getting Feige'd.

I heard a rumour that if Cox were to make his return as Daredevil in this film, he would be playing another version of Daredevil. Not the one that Netflix had established.

If that were true then I'll definitely say "no thanks".

I heard the same thing with Alfred Molina returning as Doc Ock. That it wouldn't be Doc Ock from the Raimiverse, but Molina portraying a MCU version of Ock like how JK Simmons was as J Jonah Jameson in "Far From Home".

Kinda takes some wind out of the sails if there's any truth to this.

I'm glad that's NOT the case with Keaton returning as Batman in Flashpoint. Just sayin'.

[The Laughing Fish]

I heard a rumour that if Cox were to make his return as Daredevil in this film, he would be playing another version of Daredevil. Not the one that Netflix had established.

If that were true then I'll definitely say "no thanks".

I heard the same thing with Alfred Molina returning as Doc Ock. That it wouldn't be Doc Ock from the Raimiverse, but Molina portraying a MCU version of Ock like how JK Simmons was as J Jonah Jameson in "Far From Home".

Kinda takes some wind out of the sails if there's any truth to this.

That would suck if Molina or any of the other Raimi actors don't reprise their original characters. But it's not so surprising. I think I remembered hearing Jamie Foxx would play another version of Electro, instead of the one he portrayed in TASM2.

I've never seen Far From Home, but I have seen the post-credits scene. Simmons definitely played a different version of JJ Jameson, which is a parody of Alex Jones as opposed to the traditional newspaper editor. Who knows what other surprises the MCU have in store for the other Spider-Man actors.

I'm glad that's NOT the case with Keaton returning as Batman in Flashpoint. Just sayin'.

True. We won't know how The Flash will turn out, but right now, the idea of iconic interpretations of characters making their return after a long absence is far more exciting than seeing actors playing a variation of their role.

[thecolorsblend]

For me, it's not worth letting the genie out of the bottle if those actors don't portray the versions of the characters they established. I could make peace with (hypothetically) Emma Stone playing a Spider-Gwen from the multiverse or something. But everyone else should play the existing characters. Otherwise, it's just useless to me.

Useless.

Considering how box office numbers are going these days, I think it's fair to say that MCU Spider-Man needs me a hell of a lot more than I need MCU Spider-Man.

[The Dark Knight]

For me, it's not worth letting the genie out of the bottle if those actors don't portray the versions of the characters they established. I could make peace with (hypothetically) Emma Stone playing a Spider-Gwen from the multiverse or something. But everyone else should play the existing characters. Otherwise, it's just useless to me.

Absolutely. Getting Tobey, Andrew and all the others back only to have them not be the incarnations we know and love would be an insane own goal, tainting the moment. Only a fool complicates the simple.

How hard is it to write a Spider-Man multiverse story? It's meant to be about giving the fans what they want. Michael Keaton returning as Tim Burton's Batman plays so much better than someone who looks like him, but doesn't have that same history built into the script. It's not even close.

[Silver Nemesis]

Having Maguire and Dunst back is great. Having Alfred Molina reprise Doc Ock is just icing on the cake.

Not sure how I feel about Cox's return as Daredevil is this if that's the case. The netflix show felt 'dark and gritty'. With a decidedly adult take on the character. How that can be reconciled with that take on Daredevil suddenly being inserted into the MCU 'formula' approach to storytelling, is going to be interesting to say the very least.

The MCU started on a light but serious note. It's become more and more comedic as time goes on.

Maybe inserting Cox's Daredevil will mature the MCU a bit? What I'm hoping is this is Netflix's Daredevil in the MCU and Cox isn't fan-service and a clever attempt at avoiding a wholesale reboot of the character.

For me, it's not worth letting the genie out of the bottle if those actors don't portray the versions of the characters they established. I could make peace with (hypothetically) Emma Stone playing a Spider-Gwen from the multiverse or something. But everyone else should play the existing characters. Otherwise, it's just useless to me.

Absolutely. Getting Tobey, Andrew and all the others back only to have them not be the incarnations we know and love would be an insane own goal, tainting the moment. Only a fool complicates the simple.

How hard is it to write a Spider-Man multiverse story? It's meant to be about giving the fans what they want. Michael Keaton returning as Tim Burton's Batman plays so much better than someone who looks like him, but doesn't have that same history built into the script. It's not even close.

Maguire and Garfield have to play the same versions of Peter they played in the past, or else their inclusion is pointless. But with the villains, I have no problem with them playing new versions of their characters. In the case of Doc Ock, I might actually prefer that approach. That way we can see Molina return while at the same time preserving Otto's poignant demise at the end of Spider-Man 2. I can imagine Maguire's Spider-Man encountering a new Doc Ock and mistakenly assuming it's the one he knew, only to then realise that this version of Otto is far more evil and beyond redemption. Perhaps he hails from an alternate reality where he succeeded in killing Spider-Man and destroyed Manhattan with his experiment. That angle has the potential to be more interesting than simply retconning his death at the end of SM2. I also like the idea of Stone playing a Spider-Gwen from another reality where Peter was killed, and then have her and Garfield's Spider-Man forgive and emotionally heal one another. But with Maguire and Garfield, they have to play the same versions they played before. So far I've seen no evidence to suggest that they won't, so I'm not worried about this.

Regarding Daredevil, again I've seen nothing at this stage to make me worry. Cox's Daredevil is IMO the perfect live action incarnation of the character, and the prospect of him returning, even if it's in a lighter format, is insanely exciting for DD comic fans like colors and myself. A point I've made several times in the past is that while Batman has a better mythology, better villains, better setting, etc, I think Matt Murdock is a more interesting and consistent character than Bruce Wayne. And I say that as someone who loves Batman with an unhealthy passion. Bruce changes according to the tone of the story. He can be a talkative team player who never kills, or he can be a taciturn loner who lurks in the shadows and uses lethal force. Bruce's entire personality, temperament and moral compass can be recalibrated according to the preferences of whoever's writing his stories. There are lots of different versions of Batman and there isn't really one definitive characterisation, although each fan will inevitably have his or her preferred iteration. Batman's adaptability is one of his greatest strengths and the reason the character has remained relevant throughout the decades.

By contrast, there's only really one Daredevil. When properly written, Matt's characterisation remains fixed. His mood and mental state might vary depending on the rigours of the story, and he definitely has evolved over the years, but ultimately he's always the same guy: a swashbuckling romantic New York Irish Catholic ninja lawyer with a strong sense of right and wrong, a playful sense of humour and a tendency towards guilt-induced bouts of depression and anger. The emotional and psychological context of his stories can change along with the tone, but Matt's characterisation remains the same. For example, take the following three consecutive issues from Frank Miller's run: 'Where Angels Fear to Tread' (Daredevil Vol 1 #177, December 1981), 'Paper Chase' (Daredevil Vol 1 #178, January 1982) and 'Spiked!' (Daredevil Vol 1 #179, February 1982). The first of these sees Matt retraining with Stick while suffering horrific hallucinations of the day he was blinded and the day his father died. It's a dark psychological horror story in which he battles a demonic manifestation of his own hate.

This is followed by 'Paper Chase', a funny light-hearted story that occurs during a tickertape parade, contains several pop culture references to things like The Muppets, and is full of humorous banter between Daredevil and fellow superheroes Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

This is followed by 'Spiked!', a dark gritty crime story that was part of the Elektra Saga. This issue depicts Vanessa Fisk's ongoing degradation, Daredevil being defeated and almost killed by Elektra, and Ben Urich getting stabbed and psychologically scarred for life.

These three issues have very different tones and varying degrees of comedy, yet all three were written by Miller, and Matt's characterisation is consistent throughout. His level of humour and talkativeness will vary depending on the circumstances, but this isn't like Batman – where his personality will completely change if the story ventures into lighter territory (e.g. Keaton abruptly becoming Clooney as the films grew lighter). Daredevil can function in both light and dark stories without compromising his identity. These tonal shifts have happened several times in the comics, including over the past two decades where the dark Bendis, Brubaker and Diggle runs were followed by the light and funny Waid run, which was in turn succeeded by the dark and gritty sagas of Soule and Zdarsky. The tone of the story can change, but Matt is still Matt. The characterisation of Cox's version – which is extremely faithful to the comics – should prove just as resilient, regardless of how light or dark the surrounding narrative is.

As far as the character's future in the MCU is concerned, I'd direct everyone's attention to the new Disney+ Star channel that was recently announced at the company's Investor Day event. This will allow for r-rated movies and TV shows to appear on Disney's streaming service. So far the line-up is confirmed to include things like The X-Files, 24, Prison Break and the Die Hard movies, along with new original content. This would be the perfect platform for a new Daredevil series, allowing the show to be r-rated while still being exclusive to Disney+.

If Cox is returning in Spider-Man 3, then that's great news for Daredevil fans. It just means we'll get to see him interact with new characters – characters he's frequently encountered in the comics but wouldn't have met in the Netflix show for budgetary and legal reasons – before likely getting his own TV show on the Disney+ Star channel. If Marvel screws this up, I'll be the first to call them out for it. If they get Matt's characterisation wrong or start remaking storylines that were already adapted in the Netflix show, then I'll be right there on the hate wagon. But based on what little we know so far, I don't see any cause for concern. At least not yet.

When it comes to Daredevil, my own preference has always been for darker, spookier and gothic crime stories than the lighter Silver Age adventures of the Stan Lee era (though I do like those too). But if having Matt appear in a more comedic production is a necessary step to getting a proper spiritual sequel to the Netflix show, then I'm ok with that. I'm just happy to know Cox's version might be coming back.