Old transcript of Bruce Timm and co commenting on BTAS episodes

[The Laughing Fish]

https://dcanimated.com/WF/batman/btas/backstage/animato/

Following up on my last post about Beware the Gray Ghost, I had another look at what was said about the episode.

Timm described a few of the show's in-jokers. "The Gray Ghost is Batman's boyhood hero, and The Shadow was Bob Kane's inspiration for Batman. That's doubled by the fact that Adam West was my childhood hero and my inspiration for getting into Batman." Other in-jokes include a People magazine cover with the Gray Ghost is casting Batman's shadow, and the violator reads: "Matt Hagen: Man of a Million Faces." In a Batcave shrine to the Gray Ghost, the poster on the wall has the Gray Ghost in the same pose as Batman is in the series logo. 

Kane using the Shadow as his inspiration for Batman makes this reference in a Bronze Age comic a lot of sense. I'd like to know which issue this came from.



Seeing as Clayface would debut a few episodes later after Gray Ghost, the Matt Hagen reference in the People magazine was quite foretelling. Nicely done.

[The Laughing Fish]

I had another look at dcanimated.com to see if there were more quotes by the showrunners behind BTAS, and I found a few fascinating comments by producer Eric Radomski.

https://dcanimated.com/WF/batman/btas/backstage/interviews/radomski.php

Here is one answer Radomski gave about the question of the varying degrees quality of animation produced by multiple studios:

While the show hit a consistent tone with story, there were obvious fluctuations with the animation and the different studios used. Did you ever see that as an issue, and did this cause any problems with what you wanted the show to achieve visually?

ER: The production design met resistance with all of our oversea's studios, simply because our series was like nothing else they'd worked on. Some studios had more difficulty adapting to the style then others. We made every effort to help each studio understand the style. i believed from the beginning that if embraced, this style would prove to be simpler, more efficient, and serve to deliver a better looking product overall. Considering we had up to seven studios in four different countries working simultaneously for two years, our ratio of good versus average looking episodes was very high all things considered.

The series would look amazing using today's technology. Reminder – BTAS was a traditional 2D production. Hand-made, shot on film with no digital assistance outside of the final music and sound effects mix. The days of hand-painted animation cels is quickly becoming a style of the past. Hang on to those series cels ... the market will return sometime soon.

^The animation did look a little spotty in some episodes, but in terms of consistency and quality, I'd say BTAS - as well as the entire DCAU - was always rather high. I thought the 90s X-Men cartoon fluctuated a lot in terms of quality, with messy character shadings and shadows. Even the final season's animation style was given a bit of an overhaul.

Radomski explained what were the inspirations behind the use of black backgrounds for the show, in simple yet informative terms:

Visually, your impact on Batman: The Animated Seriesis readily apparent. The black backgrounds and the title cards are two highly important visuals from the first 85 episodes that are basically owed to you. Can you run us through why you opted to use the black backgrounds, and how you came up with the idea for the title cards?

ER: Claude Monet, Bernie Fuchs, Coppola, Fleischer's Superman – All had a technical impact on the concept of starting in the dark and coaxing the imagery out with light and color. It's a visual storytelling technique that allows the viewers imagination to fill in the blanks.

From a production standpoint, I felt the technique allowed us to suggest more detail and atmosphere then actually existed (or we could afford), and it was easily transferable so that we could maintain consistency amongst all the hands involved.

Like Bruce Timm, Radomski expressed his frustration in trying to work around the censorship, but acknowledged this challenged to showrunners to think creatively.

It's well-know that show has frequent run-in with the network censors. Are there any particularly interesting instances of censorship for the series? Also, did you ever find said restrictions a problem that perhaps held the series back in your view?

ER: Actually the restrictions inspired many clever solutions for us to vent our action-adventure spleens. Watch closely, I promise in one episode you'll see Robin punch a thug in the crotch ... or did he?

One instance that always comes to mind when asked this question, this FOX Broadcast Standards and Practices note and solution: "Characters can not punch each other in the head but they can kick each other in the chest"

To be fair, the networks and studio's have been badgered into these stupid rules by members of the audience that ignore "against fare warning" and "do not try this at home." The results have been annoying and expensive, but eventually inspiring to the animators. We always seem to find a work around [laughs]!

^I can empathise with his annoyance over the inconsistent logic over violence. I've been watching the 90s Spider-Man cartoon lately, and you can tell how Spider-Man isn't allowed to punch people in the face, but kicking his enemies in the chest or behind is perfectly okay for some reason. I would've thought kicking somebody in the chest could risk causing a serious injury, i.e. a heart attack or a serious spinal injury, but I guess some people think that's far less dangerous than getting hit in the face.

Radomski's reveals which BTAS episode was his favorite...

On Leather Wings was our first born and closest to the vision we were searching for from the start, it defined Batman: The Animated Series.

...and he gets more specific in this other article (comments were copied and pasted from slides nine and ten):

On Leather Wings the very first episode we got back complete. It was the embodiment of everything that we intended for the series to be, even though the first 90-second piece that Bruce and I produced definitely represented the art direction that we intended. But to sustain it for 22 minutes, let alone 85 episodes, was really proved in that first episode.

It was a big sigh of relief almost two years after we had started the project originally. To see that come together, to put the sound and music to it, it just sort of fulfilled everything that we had hoped it would be. It also gave us the confidence that we knew we could deliver the rest of the series. All the challenges were there anyway, but we had sort of broken through the membrane of what we had hoped it would be and very pleased with the quality of what we ended up with.

https://www.comingsoon.net/tv/features/1004713-exclusive-batman-the-animated-series-cast-reveal-favorite-episodes#/slide/10

[The Laughing Fish]

Bruce Timm shared his perception of Batman's origin story and how different it is compared to Superman's, and why he jumped on the opportunity to do a three-part backstory in the beginning of STAS.

With B: TAS, Batman's origin was implied but never shown outright, whereas, with Superman, you showed the origin over the course of three episodes. Why did you want to show the origin and was there any pushback doing a three-parter to launch the series?

As far as I know, I don't remember that there was any pushback. The people that we worked with at Kids' WB at the time were very easygoing, much more so than Fox Kids. Fox Kids was a little more uptight about things, particularly of the Standards and Practices nature whereas we couldn't believe our luck when working at Kids' WB that first season. These guys were letting us do whatever we wanted, which was great. [laughs]

On the one hand, Superman's origin story has been told so many times but he has the best origin story. The thing about Batman's origin story is it's an incident. It's something that happened. It's not a whole episode, it's six minutes of screen time. Superman's is epic. It's got all kinds of biblical stuff in it and a huge scale. We knew it was a great way to say, right out of the gate, this is not B: TAS again, this is something really different. We're going to spend the entire first episode on another fricking planet. I just couldn't resist it. I love the origin story and getting to design Krypton from the ground up into something that didn't look like the Christopher Reeve movie or specifically like anything from the comics, was a super fun blast. All the rest of it is great too: the Smallville stuff warms the cold corners of my heart. When you get to Metropolis, you get introduced to Dana Delaney and Clancy Brown -- what's not to love?

https://web.archive.org/web/20221225163457/https://www.cbr.com/bruce-timm-superman-the-animated-series-interview/

I get the sense BS&P might've had a role in why Batman's backstory never was explored in BTAS, due to censorship reasons. But once again, it might've been for the best, in hindsight. It allowed creative freedom to use nightmarish images of guns bleeding from the crumbling ground like in the episode Dreams in Darkness and Bruce having a vision of his disappointed parents in Two-Face Part II, and parts of Bruce's beginnings were tied together with the Andrea Beaumont backstory in Mark of the Phantasm.

I reckon this approach to Batman's backstory is much more interesting than showing everything in sequence. Whereas in Superman's case, his backstory is much more expansive with so much to explore.

[The Laughing Fish]

I've been reading this really good interview with BTAS writer and executive producer Tom Ruegger, and he revealed the Fox Kids TV executives wanted to remove Bruce Timm and Eric Radomski because they thought their animation pitch for the show was too dark and were too inexperienced for children's programming.

Early on the network wanted to get rid of Bruce Timm and Eric Radomski. They said, "These guys, they've never made an animated series before, they don't understand TV, they're not making a show for kids, we need this thing to be nicer." I remember going to Bruce and Eric and telling them this. They said, "Can we quit now?" So, we made a stand against the network and said, "Listen, they're not going. Cancel this series, because we're making this with Bruce Timm and Eric Radomski. They have the vision that works alongside Tim Burton's vision. You've seen the little clip that they're capable of making. Now you just have to let them do it, clear out, and let's just continue – or skip it!" We did get to that moment, and normally I think the network gets its way. At that point, we had had experience with the network in making the Steven Spielberg show [Tiny Toon Adventures]. On that production, they'd say, "Oh, we don't like this, we don't like that, we want that changed." We'd go back with, "Well, Steven likes this, and we don't want to change it."

..

We knew that they had a breaking point. Tim Burton really wasn't involved, but we knew that Eric and Bruce had a visual vision that would make this show unique and special. The network may have wanted it to be a better flavour of vanilla, but we did fight them on that.

Ruegger says writing this  particular moment in Pretty Poison episode was his greatest moment:

I wrote the first Poison Ivy episode, and I realised that I loved the show and I loved the process when I was writing the first scene for that script. I realised, "Oh my gosh, this is like we're making movies here. We're actually making 22-minute feature films." They were very dramatic. The first scene I had was Harvey Dent at dinner with the character who would become Poison Ivy. I believe he's lamenting that Bruce Wayne couldn't make it, "Where's Bruce? He was supposed to come to dinner. But you know Bruce, he's always a lowkey, loner of a guy who stays to himself and doesn't like to go out much." We're intercutting everything Harvey Dent says with contradictory footage of Bruce as Batman beating the living crap out of a villain. I realised, "This is so much fun to write!" For me, that was like a turning point in that, "Oh, I don't just have to write little shenanigans with Buster and Babs. I can write these really dramatic scenes and I have the freedom to let it go wherever it goes." It was just a wonderful creative writing experience that I think was the turning point for me. This was the episode prior to Harvey turning into Two-Face.

While on the subject of B89's influence on the show, Ruegger mentioned Danny Elfman forced Shirley Walker to change the musical theme of the show so he could get credited.

I suspect the tendency would've been to go with a lighter quality if the Tim Burton movie hadn't existed. Especially for TV animation, Batman: The Animated Series was unique. It wasn't really aimed at a very young kid audience. Clearly, not every little kid should've been watching it, because it was a little bit rough or a little bit more violent. The music was by Tim Burton's orchestrator, Shirley Walker. Danny Elfman had done the music for the feature film, and Shirley Walker had been Danny's orchestrator. That's one of the odd little moments with the series, because Shirley wrote the theme music for Batman: The Animated Series, and Danny Elfman was very unhappy that Shirley had gone off to do this. What happened with the theme tune is that Danny insisted that it be slightly rewritten so his name could be credited. That was between Danny and Shirley, but it worked out and Shirley did all of Batman: The Animated Series; she did all of the composing and she was just fabulously brilliant.

Here's the rest of the interview: https://www.starburstmagazine.com/features/tom-ruegger-batman-complete-animated-series/

[thecolorsblend]

Listen, they're not going. Cancel this series, because we're making this with Bruce Timm and Eric Radomski. They have the vision that works alongside Tim Burton's vision. You've seen the little clip that they're capable of making. Now you just have to let them do it, clear out, and let's just continue – or skip it!

The prospect terrifies me, frankly.

I've said before that B89, Adam West, The Complete Frank Miller Batman and The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told were what introduced me to the character. It was totally true.

But I think BTAS is what cemented everything for me. Because there was such a huge range of characters. I knew the Joker and Penguin, obviously. But other characters like Man-Bat, Two-Face and so forth were less familiar to me. So, it was BTAS that gave me entrée into those villains.

And it's funny that Tom Ruegger mentions Poison Ivy. Because Pretty Poison is exactly what I was thinking of. What a terrible loss it would've been if that particular episode was never produced. And I guess I never realized how close the show came to getting scrapped. Frankly, in my own list of greatest Batman stories ever told in any medium, I count quite a few BTAS episodes. Pretty Poison, On Leather Wings, Heart Of Ice and so forth.

Batman would be a less rich character today if not for the gigantic impact BTAS had in its time.

[The Laughing Fish]

Despite not having a favourite episode, Timm - like Radomski - is very sentimental when it comes to On Leather Wings.

We're sure you've answered this a thousand times in the last twenty-five years, but do you have a particular episode that stands out as your personal favorite?

BT: No! I will say, and this is my stock answer but it's true, it's not the best episode or the most memorable, or the deepest, but I have tons of fond memories of "On Leather Wings" because it was the first episode we put into production, it was the first time we saw the characters animated, it was the first time we recorded an episode with our wonderful cast, and it was the first time I heard Shirley Walker's amazing music, and it all kind of came together! I think it's a really solid episode. It kind of "planted the flag" and did exactly what we intended to do with the show. It was a little bit spooky and a little bit fun, a little bit funny, it had a lot of adventure and didn't talk down to kids, so it was great. Here's the thing, we were doing a lot of things that, at the time, were revolutionary with how to style an animated show. With painting the backgrounds on black paper and the stylized look of the characters. We had no idea if it was going to work or not! So when we got the first episode, which was "On Leather Wings", back from Japan, it was kind of like "Oh thank God it actually works! This is gonna be good!".

https://sciencefiction.com/2017/10/16/nycc-2017-twenty-five-years-later-bruce-timm-talks-batman-animated-series/

I thought this episode was solid, although it's not really among my favourites. But it was critical to get this right to lay the foundation for the rest of the show.

[thecolorsblend]

No! I will say, and this is my stock answer but it's true, it's not the best episode or the most memorable, or the deepest, but I have tons of fond memories of "On Leather Wings" because it was the first episode we put into production, it was the first time we saw the characters animated, it was the first time we recorded an episode with our wonderful cast, and it was the first time I heard Shirley Walker's amazing music, and it all kind of came together! I think it's a really solid episode. It kind of "planted the flag" and did exactly what we intended to do with the show. It was a little bit spooky and a little bit fun, a little bit funny, it had a lot of adventure and didn't talk down to kids, so it was great. Here's the thing, we were doing a lot of things that, at the time, were revolutionary with how to style an animated show. With painting the backgrounds on black paper and the stylized look of the characters. We had no idea if it was going to work or not! So when we got the first episode, which was "On Leather Wings", back from Japan, it was kind of like "Oh thank God it actually works! This is gonna be good!".

It's one of my favorites. It has a bit of Bronze Age flavoring, a bit of horror movie flavoring and obviously Batman had never looked that good in animation before.

Frankly, OLW is one of my favorite episodes of BTAS. Technically, The Cat & The Claw Pt. 1 aired first. But for me, OLW is the true debut of BTAS. I absolutely cherish this episode.

Plus, everything I knew about Man-Bat came from The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told vol. 01. I knew of the character but didn't know much else about him. OLW was what began changing that.

Amazing episode.

[The Laughing Fish]

No! I will say, and this is my stock answer but it's true, it's not the best episode or the most memorable, or the deepest, but I have tons of fond memories of "On Leather Wings" because it was the first episode we put into production, it was the first time we saw the characters animated, it was the first time we recorded an episode with our wonderful cast, and it was the first time I heard Shirley Walker's amazing music, and it all kind of came together! I think it's a really solid episode. It kind of "planted the flag" and did exactly what we intended to do with the show. It was a little bit spooky and a little bit fun, a little bit funny, it had a lot of adventure and didn't talk down to kids, so it was great. Here's the thing, we were doing a lot of things that, at the time, were revolutionary with how to style an animated show. With painting the backgrounds on black paper and the stylized look of the characters. We had no idea if it was going to work or not! So when we got the first episode, which was "On Leather Wings", back from Japan, it was kind of like "Oh thank God it actually works! This is gonna be good!".

It's one of my favorites. It has a bit of Bronze Age flavoring, a bit of horror movie flavoring and obviously Batman had never looked that good in animation before.

Really? Despite all the contempt you expressed towards me during our last discussion and ranted about how "literally everyone" ignores me at the end of your overreacting outburst, here you are replying to a piece of info I shared. You're unbelievable.

You know, I would not have known you made this post had I not logged in and got an alert saying you replied to me. I don't even think you meant to do this on purpose, so let me give you this advice: if you want to avoid quoting me directly by removing my comments and username, and just respond to something I share, delete the message and date code embedded in the quote - the bits that say "link=msg=whatever date=whatever". That way, I don't get alerted about any replies coming from you, and we can avoid contacting each other forever. Because after THAT outburst of yours, why the hell would I want to talk to somebody who hates my guts? I've got no time for you.

I think we agree this should be the final time we speak to each other. Farewell.