The Suicide Squad (2021)

[The Joker]

[thecolorsblend]

What I can tell you is that it's a good thing the movie is coming out on streaming and in theaters simultaneously. Because if I had to call it now, I don't think I'd prioritize buying a ticket for this. But watching it on HBO Max is easy enough. I'll probably do it that way.

There was some controversy about the opening line on Twitter yesterday tho. Apparently, some people took exception to Bloodsport having shot Superman with a Kryptonite bullet. Um, he literally did that in Superman v2 #4. That's a major story point of that issue. Superman was weakened for the remainder of the story and had to work harder to bring Bloodsport down.

[The Laughing Fish]

There was some controversy about the opening line on Twitter yesterday tho. Apparently, some people took exception to Bloodsport having shot Superman with a Kryptonite bullet. Um, he literally did that in Superman v2 #4. That's a major story point of that issue. Superman was weakened for the remainder of the story and had to work harder to bring Bloodsport down.

That should be the least of people's worries. Gunn has come out and admitted he doesn't know if his movie is making a reference to Cavill's Superman, or another version that's going to be recast.

It is an absolute farce.

[The Joker]

My idea for how to update Starro is to make it a Lovecraftian Eldritch Abomination and to emphasise the occult implications and cosmic horror elements pertaining to its mythology. What little we can see of its physical form would be represented as a vast biomechanical pentagram drifting through space, and anyone who looks directly at the central eye would be instantly driven insane. The first portents of Starro's coming would occur when various astronomers across the globe suddenly start losing their minds. Nobody understands the cause of the pandemic, but it gets worse the closer Starro draws to Earth. Apocalyptic cults of Starro-worshippers begin cropping up and practicing human sacrifices in all the major cities. Meteor showers rain across every continent, bringing with them the spores of Starro; here re-imagined as endoparasitoids resembling a cross between facehuggers and Metroids. Soon the spores spread like a plague and infect 99.9% of the Earth's population. Heroes and villains alike fall under Starro's control until only the Justice League members remain to do battle with them. Starro eclipses the sun and shrouds the Earth in darkness as the JLA fights desperately against the metahumans who have succumbed to its diabolical influence.

The atmosphere of mounting dread would be frightening and intense. Early in the story Martian Manhunter would sense the madness spreading, while elsewhere Batman, Cyborg and Flash investigate the cults that are terrorising their respective cities. Aquaman notices the ocean's echinoderms are responding to some extraterrestrial influence. A mentally-compromised Green Lantern returns to Earth, bringing Superman and Wonder Woman a dire warning that a cosmic threat is approaching. There could even be a creepy prologue where we seen Green Lantern fighting possessed versions of Hawkman and Hawkwoman in order to escape from Thanagar before Starro claims it.

I'd love to write a comic based on these ideas. Such a story would have made a great Justice League movie too. Instead Gunn will likely treat Starro as a joke and all that potential will be squandered. Such a waste.

The more I've read this, and re-read this, the more that the conclusion is clear. This is far too high concept for the current DCEU. Which is a compliment, and not an insult. A Warners/DCEU Pre-BvS might have actually gone with something along this line of presentation. Post-BvS, Warners has proven time and time again that they are far too finicky to set forth a cinematic experience where the gravity of the situation at hand is in the forefront without having to resort to downplaying (thus hindering) that kind of momentous tonality of such a story with formulaic MCU "humor" (only with more swearing and potty jokes), and snark.

It's just too high concept for the brass we've been stuck with at Warners. Truly. Actually, a Starro film, under this sort of lens, might actually work out better for cinematic experience if it was 100% divorced from the DCEU, and dealt with the aforementioned Lovecraftian, occult, cosmic horror pertaining to its mythology elements in a real world setting. Focusing on the discovery, arrival, and fallout of Starro's attack on earth, while addressing wholeheartedly the mental stress, anxiety, and outright agony that people from all backgrounds begin to suffer from in a mass scale following Starro's continued presence and assaults. Which would play into your Starro cults of worship and offerings of human sacrifices idea. So many ideas that could be interesting under a reimaging like that .....

[The Laughing Fish]

James Gunn said he was given full creative control to make his Suicide Squad R-rated, and said this to David Ayer:

Although a lot of the major players at Warners were different people, there was no doubt their troubles with you helped to pave an easier path for me, David, so I'm very grateful for that, and for everything else you did to help this movie along its path.

https://www.twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1412569250271617029

He's grateful that Ayer's movie got ripped to shreds during the editing process, as well as Ayer getting thrown under the bus?

f*** James Gunn, seriously.

[The Dark Knight]

What I can tell you is that it's a good thing the movie is coming out on streaming and in theaters simultaneously. Because if I had to call it now, I don't think I'd prioritize buying a ticket for this. But watching it on HBO Max is easy enough. I'll probably do it that way.

I'm waiting for the movie to come and go. I don't like Gunn or these types of films. I don't have any time for Robbie's Harley any more, either. Characters like Poison Ivy are far too good to be wasted in plain embarrassing Birds of Prey movies. Fingers and toes crossed that doesn't happen, but it probably will.

[Silver Nemesis]

What I can tell you is that it's a good thing the movie is coming out on streaming and in theaters simultaneously. Because if I had to call it now, I don't think I'd prioritize buying a ticket for this. But watching it on HBO Max is easy enough. I'll probably do it that way.

I'm waiting for the movie to come and go. I don't like Gunn or these types of films. I don't have any time for Robbie's Harley any more, either. Characters like Poison Ivy are far too good to be wasted in plain embarrassing Birds of Prey movies. Fingers and toes crossed that doesn't happen, but it probably will.

I watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood the other night, and it reminded me how attractive Margot Robbie is when she's not made up to look like a dead hooker.

I'm bored with the Harley Quinn character in general and I think she's been badly overexposed in recent years. She was never one of my favourite Batman villains to begin with, but I did like the original B:TAS version, back when she was a funny sidekick for a less violent version of the Joker. I never liked the trashier and more sexualised version of the character that's since become dominant, and I never bought into the idea of the more psychotic versions of the Joker maintaining a long-term partner or ally. I can imagine the lighter Romero-esque versions of the Joker keeping her around for a while, but the more deranged versions would have killed her in a matter of days.

I also hate the way Poison Ivy has been relegated from a top-tier Batman villain to a sidekick/girlfriend for Harley. The whole point of Ivy was that she didn't relate to humans – any humans – because she identified more with plants. But in recent years she's become more of an accessory to Harley's adventures, much like Leto's Joker in the DCEU. I'd be happy to scrap Harley and let both the Joker and Ivy re-establish themselves without her.

[The Dark Knight]

Absolutely. Poison Ivy is far too good of a character to be lumped in with dumb girl Harley. Ivy is a strong villain in her own right and shouldn't be anybody's accessory, particularly if we're taking about a cinematic relaunch. The Thurman incarnation demonstrated individuality in the way she backstabbed Arnold Schwarzenegger of all people, and had Bane under her thumb. I agree Harley is someone the Joker would outright kill or only tolerate in short bursts. The tragedy is that she always returns to the abusive environment out of habit, and the cycle continues. Margot's incarnation, however, removes her innate tragedy and goes for empowerment. Which in my opinion goes against the character's very spirit and makes things less interesting.

[BatmanFurst]

What I can tell you is that it's a good thing the movie is coming out on streaming and in theaters simultaneously. Because if I had to call it now, I don't think I'd prioritize buying a ticket for this. But watching it on HBO Max is easy enough. I'll probably do it that way.

I'm waiting for the movie to come and go. I don't like Gunn or these types of films. I don't have any time for Robbie's Harley any more, either. Characters like Poison Ivy are far too good to be wasted in plain embarrassing Birds of Prey movies. Fingers and toes crossed that doesn't happen, but it probably will.

I watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood the other night, and it reminded me how attractive Margot Robbie is when she's not made up to look like a dead hooker.

I'm bored with the Harley Quinn character in general and I think she's been badly overexposed in recent years. She was never one of my favourite Batman villains to begin with, but I did like the original B:TAS version, back when she was a funny sidekick for a less violent version of the Joker. I never liked the trashier and more sexualised version of the character that's since become dominant, and I never bought into the idea of the more psychotic versions of the Joker maintaining a long-term partner or ally. I can imagine the lighter Romero-esque versions of the Joker keeping her around for a while, but the more deranged versions would have killed her in a matter of days.

I also hate the way Poison Ivy has been relegated from a top-tier Batman villain to a sidekick/girlfriend for Harley. The whole point of Ivy was that she didn't relate to humans – any humans – because she identified more with plants. But in recent years she's become more of an accessory to Harley's adventures, much like Leto's Joker in the DCEU. I'd be happy to scrap Harley and let both the Joker and Ivy re-establish themselves without her.

Harley Quinn is like Two-Face to me where the most interesting thing about her is the origin. Beyond that she starts to turn into a one trick pony. I have the same problem with her relationship with Joker. First off, I think Joker is a far more interesting when he's working by himself, but I also agree that if Joker is crazy enough to throw a henchman in front of a truck simply for questioning him there's no way Harley could survive with someone that deranged.

I like the Animated Series Joker, but the Joker that's featured in the first two seasons isn't a homicidal maniac because the network wouldn't allow that. I'd argue that Joker didn't feel like a threat in that way until The New Batman Adventures. I can see Harley existing next to a somewhat diluted version of Joker but not the version that's in The Laughing Fish, Death in The Family, or Killing Joke.

[thecolorsblend]

Harley Quinn is like Two-Face to me where the most interesting thing about her is the origin. Beyond that she starts to turn into a one trick pony. I have the same problem with her relationship with Joker. First off, I think Joker is a far more interesting when he's working by himself, but I also agree that if Joker is crazy enough to throw a henchman in front of a truck simply for questioning him there's no way Harley could survive with someone that deranged.

I like the Animated Series Joker, but the Joker that's featured in the first two seasons isn't a homicidal maniac because the network wouldn't allow that. I'd argue that Joker didn't feel like a threat in that way until The New Batman Adventures. I can see Harley existing next to a somewhat diluted version of Joker but not the version that's in The Laughing Fish, Death in The Family, or Killing Joke.

I agree. But I think we're in the minority here. Still, I think Harley is at her best and most authentic in BTAS. She doesn't fit organically into the wider Batman mythos.

The major exception is the Brian Azzarello + Lee Bermejo Joker hardcover. It showed Harley basically as the Joker's moll... but on just one page, the Joker is seen sobbing uncontrollably into a bored-looking Harley's stomach. It gives a sort of interesting suggestion about their relationship. Who that Joker is in public and who he is in private can be two very different people.

The other issue for me is Harley as a battered wife. The Joker in BTAS clearly pushed Harley around. Abuse exists on a spectrum. And Harley's treatment on the show is on the lower end of the spectrum. Plus, I think you can argue that Harley gave nearly as good as she got in those years. Besides, in many cases, you could argue that BTAS Joker was simply being careless with her and her safety. But the direction she's taken lately is the battered wife who has emancipated herself.

That's a positive character arc for Harley (considering that it starts with abuse, which is icky for comics) but it's also basically a Jump The Shark moment for her, the moment where Harley strays too far away from her original purpose (i.e., the Joker's crazy, clueless, lovestruck girlfriend). If she's strong, independent and free of the Joker... well, she isn't what we've always known her to be. The moment Harley emancipates herself from the Joker, she can't be what she was originally intended to be anymore.