The Flash (2022)

[The Laughing Fish]

Despite all the PR problems at the moment, DC have released the first issue front cover of the prequel tie-in comics. Apparently, this was drawn by Andy Muschietti himself.



Even if you ignore everything else that's going on with Miller for a moment, this is a really childish front cover. Does this mean the movie has Barry changing into his Flash costume while he's naked in broad daylight at some point?

Anyway, the father who came out with the grooming allegations has condemned this cover and the movie:

#TrashTheFlash Ezra Miller is the subject of 2 protection orders (1 involving a minor & the other relating to the violence & drugging of an 18yr old) + ongoing investigations & @warnerbros et al decide this naked depiction of the ezra flash is a good move ? #TrashTheFlash

https://twitter.com/ChaseIronEyes/status/1537921514145665024?cxt=HHwWgMCq8YDe5dcqAAAA

While on the subject, the man's daughter Tokata Iron Eyes uploaded a video last week denying the allegations. She may appear to be well-spoken for her age, but is she getting coached? Judge for yourself.

An absolute sh*t show.

[The Laughing Fish]

I've read that Flash cover has now been pulled by DC.

So, he's done, right?

I'm reading rumours that Miller's career as the Flash is all but confirmed to be over, regardless if these grooming allegations are true or false. This latest video by Midnight's Edge analyses what the options are, in terms of what to do with the movie.

Is there any way of coming back from this?

I think thecolorsblend is spot on when he says this movie will likely go straight to HBO Max. There's no point in spending money on promotion and marketing if the lead actor is at the center of so much controversy and the movie's box office potential is just about lost.

I'm very curious about how this will affect Keaton's Batman. ME did a good job in breaking down the ramifications of how Flash affects Batgirl, but one little detail they neglected to mention was the rumour of Keaton's Batman appearing in the new Aquaman, as it was claimed by some scoopers who saw a test screening. If this is true, this would mean Keaton's comeback would result in three appearances: The Flash, Batgirl and Aquaman. All of these movies were supposed to come out between November and December this year, in that order.

But now we have this major shake-up with the delays, and the new dates have pulled these movies out of sequence. At the time of writing, Aquaman 2 is currently scheduled to come out in March next year, and Flash is scheduled for next June. Meanwhile, the Batgirl directors are now saying they don't know if their movie will get released before or after The Flash.

It makes no sense if Keaton's return occurs in anything before Flash, as it was intended. So where exactly does he fit in all this? I've even heard rumours that WBD doesn't even want this Flash timeline, so if that's true, do they just dump the movie on HBO Max and forget about it without a fuss? Will they continue having Keaton's Batman in Aquaman 2 and Batgirl, or remove his scenes if they're not following that Flash continuity? And if they do that, will they amend his deal so he can appear in something else, say, Batman Beyond?

[thecolorsblend]

I do see one final alternative. It'll offer a permanent way out of this whole mess. But it's risky, it's very expensive for an already leveraged company and it's guaranteed to upset possibly multiple portions of the fanbase. But if it works, it will be a game-changer of historical proportions.

Scorched. Earth. Reboot.

Delete EVERYTHING to do with the DCEU. Affleck as Batman, Gadot as Wonder Woman, Cavill as Superman, etc. All due respect to them, blah blah blah, delete it all. Also delete the as-yet unreleased DCEU films, including Flash, Batgirl, etc.

EVERYTHING. GONE.

Now, "good business sense" says keep the stuff that works, eject the stuff that doesn't. But no. That approach has already been tried multiple times. It has never worked.

Launch a new cinematic universe that is unencumbered by anything else, wholly separate from everything else. Pick a character, any character and build it up from there. You want to compete with Marvel? Then follow Marvel's method. Start small and get big.

Launch with the most popular non-Batman character. Honestly, I think a Green Lantern character might be the best bet here. Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, pick one of them. Then introduce another character. The Flash is as good as anyone (unless the Miller stink now covers the character entirely). But for variety's sake, launch with Wally West and retroactively establish Barry as Wally's speedster Godfather. Invent some plausible story reason for Barry to not be around.

Considering goings on with the Reevesverse, I think there's mojo to the idea of using Green Arrow as a surrogate for Batman in this new DC universe sort of like how the Arrowverse did basically the same thing. I say let Pattinson have his own space. Keaton, Affleck, everyone else is GONE.

Introduce Superman, a new Wonder Woman and other characters too.

This means eating the cost of Aquaman 2, Miller's Flash and this Batgirl monstrosity. They'll be tossed into a hole and never released. The DCEU is dead. Bury it. Consider this mercy.

There are MANY complications with this approach. Approximately half a billion (or more) complications, in fact. Called dollars. That's a hell of a lot of sunk cost for a company that's already this deep in the red.

But what it comes down to is this: How badly do you want to get out of this mess? Badly enough to build a proper universe from the ground up? Because I've come to believe that's what it'll take. There is no way to salvage the DCEU at this point. Even if you bring Snyder back, he'll be hemmed in by the stuff he had nothing to do with.

So, just scrape everything off and start anew. Most importantly, ONE PRODUCER (or one executive or one consultant or one whatever tf) controls the new DC universe. This person will not be forced to do some idiotic "multiverse" thing.  Won't be forced to do anything, actually. Give him/her absolute creative freedom to build a cinematic universe on their own terms.

It doesn't take a genius to guess that the WBD board will hate this idea. Zaslav will have to fight lamf to make this happen. The board will obviously want to recoup what they can from Aquaman 2, Miller's Flash and this Batgirl monstrosity.

But while that looks attractive, it's still the road to defeat. You're mitigating your losses rather than building a solid foundation. Zaslav needs to take the long view on this. If you want to compete with Marvel, then you need something clean and immaculate unfettered by competing (and incompatible) visions from Snyder, Whedon, Jenkins, Wan, Muschietti, etc., not to mention meddling executives who don't know wtf they're doing.

Speaking of meddling executives, if we lived in a fair, sane and just universe, Geoff Johns would've been summarily terminated and then sued into absolute oblivion for what he did. If it was me, I wouldn't rest until Johns had declared bankruptcy, suffered a nervous breakdown, been committed to a mental institution and made into a ward of the state. An example needed to be made of Johns for everybody else to learn from. "If you challenge the throne, this could be you. Think hard about what you do next. Decide now where your loyalties lie."

And admittedly, there's a VERY good chance that this plan will fail. But if this plan fails, then it's not like Aquaman 2, Miller's Flash and this Batgirl monstrosity have a snowball's chance in hell of working either. The present course is untenable. But a Page 1 reboot is just crazy enough to work.

And IF this plan works, WBD will put the fear of God into Marvel Studios while also giving the public a viable alternative. They'll finally prove to the world (and themselves) that they have characters just as beloved as Marvel's. Zaslav will be vilified by the WBD board today and orally gratified by them tomorrow.

Crazy although it seems, a scorched earth reboot is the only viable option on the table anymore.

[The Laughing Fish]

Speaking of meddling executives, if we lived in a fair, sane and just universe, Geoff Johns would've been summarily terminated and then sued into absolute oblivion for what he did. If it was me, I wouldn't rest until Johns had declared bankruptcy, suffered a nervous breakdown, been committed to a mental institution and made into a ward of the state. An example needed to be made of Johns for everybody else to learn from. "If you challenge the throne, this could be you. Think hard about what you do next. Decide now where your loyalties lie."

Geoff Johns is an asshole, that's true, but let's not overlook the fact he wouldn't have been able to cause damage had it not been for scumbag execs like Kevin Tsujihara and Toby Emmerich. They enabled him, and they supported him. They are just as responsible for destroying the DCEU as much as Johns. As a matter of fact, Johns still has a producer credit for the next Shazam, last I checked. That's how protected he was under Emmerich.

Crazy although it seems, a scorched earth reboot is the only viable option on the table anymore.

I disagree. Putting my bias towards all things Snyderverse and Keaton aside for a moment, I can't see this idea being feasible. WBD inherited a mess but they are in this way too deep to suddenly start over from scratch.

Whether we like it or not, too much money has been invested in several movies that are either in post-production, awaiting release, or in the middle of filming. Aquaman 2, Flash and Batgirl aren't the only movies on the horizon, Black Adam and the Shazam sequel are coming out later this year, and I just read that the Blue Beetle movie is currently filming. If you suddenly scrap all of those movies in favour of rebooting the whole DC universe, I'd imagine a lot of compensation would have to be paid to every production company as well as actors who would have signed on multi-picture deals, like Keaton. Unless you're suggesting Black Adam becomes the first film in a newly rebooted DC shared universe, I can't imagine the Rock accepting the news that his movie is getting scrapped right at the last minute. But even if BA were to become the start of a newly rebooted universe, the film is connected to Shazam, so it complicates things.

As you already mentioned, there are a lot of complications in taking such a dramatic approach. I know WBD owns the DC brand, but I wonder if legalities would be a possibility over the loss of income for many producers and actors? I can only imagine reading headlines that the sequel to the highly profitable Aquaman movie suddenly getting canceled would generate a lot of negative PR, regardless if Amber Heard remains as Mera or not. Besides, David Zaslav gave a political statement promising to repair relationships with creatives, and breaking that promise by canceling movies that are already in the can would be damaging to WBD's reputation. And I say this without any care or love for any of these new DC movies.

The whole idea of the DCEU ceased to exist once Josstice L came out. Some movies and TV shows that have come out since are very loosely connected, at best, while the vast majority are completely disconnected from each other. We only had a brief moment of a real shared universe when ZSJL came out last year, but Emmerich and co did their best to burn bridges.

If the outgoing regime aka Warner Butchers really wanted to get away from the Snyderverse, it would've made much more sense to reboot everything four years ago. Back then, only Aquaman was in production. But as you know, people like Johns wanted to hijack and take credit for WW17's success and participate in developing Aquaman, so it was far more convenient to cherrypick some movies than going for the kill and reboot the whole franchise. Now the newly formed WBD have to carry this burden.

Even if you bring Snyder back, he'll be hemmed in by the stuff he had nothing to do with.

Do you mean the controversies surrounding Heard and Miller? Because going by Snyder's recent history, he replaced Chris D'Elia with Tig Notaro in Army of the Dead without any hesitation once D'Elia got hit with sexual harassment allegations. If Snyder were to come back and finish his story arc, I've no doubt he'd easily replace Miller and Heard.

If that's not what you meant, and you were referring to the other disconnected DC movies, well, not many of them follow each other so I personally don't see the big deal. But for the sake of entertaining the thought of rebooting the DC universe in live-action, I remember some scoopers were speculating whether or not a Crisis film scenario might be planned somewhere down the line, because Snyder teased a shot of the Final Crisis TPB in a VERO post last year. That wouldn't be a bad idea, in theory. Allow the Snyderverse arc to continue and conclude, have all the other stuff happen at the same time, and then have a two-part Crisis event movie event to restart everything. Of course, the money to make this would probably be too hard to come by, wouldn't it?

[eledoremassis02]

He did keep Miller (if antics were known as mentioned a few posts back) and Amber for the nighmare scene in Justice League tho. I'm sure they're both gone now but WB did have problems getting rid of Amber (as the trial revealed) as they had to chip away her character. Miller I suppose had the same issue.

In terms of what to do, disolving the DCEU is quite feasable. I mean, most people dont really care about it and overall is marred with films like WW84 (tho I liked that) JW Justice League, Suicide Club etc. DC haters are having a feild day and it sucks.

I suppose they could do ZS Justice League but Flash was a BIG part of that and they can recast but it's still a mark on the film regardless and it depends on who knew what when and for how long. This really could go down bad for the brand, ala Singer (granted he was behind the camera).

They could re-film the flash, it has been done before (Spacy) but Miller is playing 2 (3?) different characters. It would be Back to the Future on steroids and if casted wrong could ruin the film (ala Back to the Future *Stoltz being the recast*). It plausable only because the film has apperently screened well. It's a risk and its WB so I'll let people think on that.

Or they could just release as is, recast later or just drop the character. I am really someone who will tend to not watch a film because of a certain actor is in it. I remeber people saying they wouldnt see X-Men Days of Future past because of singer and they ran an ad talking about how films are made by more than one person and not supporting it (if you were going to) is hurting everyone else for anothers actions. Then ofcourse there is just the issue of Miller is one of a Million in Hollywood. How many Weinsteins are still in the industry?

It's a fine line. It's like not not supporting one company because you dont like their CEO or founders idiology but then support another who stands for very much the same because you like the product they offer. It's a tough call and everyone has their own right to support or not support something. I'll just go with flow and see what ever comes out because most of all I'm here for Keaton and Afflack.

They have DC Black and that so far has been much more sucessful so in lots of ways that is their saving grace.

Speaking of, Keaton has been rather quiet on social media as of late, granted we have a new President so it may be why. But I do wonder what his thought are on this, given his stake in the DCEU now and just his overal world veiw.

Also....I just realized he filmed a scene with DCEU's Joker in a Marvel movie..so.... there's that lol

[thecolorsblend]

Whether we like it or not, too much money has been invested in several movies that are either in post-production, awaiting release, or in the middle of filming.

The sunk cost fallacy creates a lot of myopic thinking. The simple fact of the matter is that the whole "Let's keep the stuff that works" bs HAS NEVER WORKED.

It's been tried since 2017 with Whedon. We're now on our third iteration of a post-Snyder DCEU and the one constant has been disappointing box office. It has NEVER worked.

The relevant issue is that Miller's Flash movie is toxic. There's simply no good option on the table for it. It was always destined to upset Snyderverse fans. But with recent news bits about Miller, the movie will upset pretty much anybody with a sense of decency.

Zaslav has an opportunity here to drop the Flash movie into the trash can in a way that guarantees that the DC characters (WBD's supposedly most important franchise) can have a future.

There's no need to nuke the Reeves Batman or the Phillips JOKER. But at the same time, I just can't see a strong argument against a full scale reboot. Aside from the financial cost of doing so.

Still, the rewards far outweigh the risks. WBD can reach for the stars with a rebooted universe and they can stay mired in mediocrity with their current universe. A third choice isn't on the table.

[The Dark Knight]

In terms of what to do, disolving the DCEU is quite feasable. I mean, most people dont really care about it and overall is marred with films like WW84 (tho I liked that) JW Justice League, Suicide Club etc. DC haters are having a feild day and it sucks.

The DCEU should have been rebooted very early on, when they decided to change course. Sure, Snyder wasn't directing every film in the series, but the overall arc was going down his main line trajectory. Anything from the point he was banished isn't pure. It's as much of a distortion as The Flash movie's variant timeline. The reboot option should still be used, and if I were in charge it would be. But I can't see it happening. I now predict they'll slam The Flash on to HBO Max and put Batgirl in theatres, reversing the release model they initially proposed. With Black Adam, Shazam, Aquaman 2 and all these other movies still happening, pretending Ezra was the single problem - and now he's in the rear view mirror. Which is faulty thinking, because the founding pillars of the universe were blown apart, weaking the future and making it irrrelevant. Let's get real: Ezra has as much liklihood of appearing in another DCEU movie as Cavill, so what's the point continuing this sham?

[Travesty]

So all the reports are that Ezra is completely dropped from WB and any future projects.

I mean, A "scorched earth reboot" doesn't sound so bad right now, especially since they're not using Cavil or Ezra.

[Travesty]

If they don't do a full reboot, the best thing I can think of, is drop this movie entirely(don't even release it), film new scenes explaining Keaton's return in Batgirl, and move forward.

[The Laughing Fish]

The simple fact of the matter is that the whole "Let's keep the stuff that works" bs HAS NEVER WORKED.

It's been tried since 2017 with Whedon. We're now on our third iteration of a post-Snyder DCEU and the one constant has been disappointing box office. It has NEVER worked.

No matter how true that may be, I just cannot see the possibility of scrapping multiple films that are in post, or still filming. To do that, contracts would have to be terminated and compensation to all relevant parties would have to be paid. Like I said before, there might be legal issues involved too. Never mind scrapping one particular film, has there ever been a time when multiple tentpole films get canceled altogether? As much as I don't care for any of these new DC movies, such a dramatic overhaul would be a PR nightmare. I can see disgruntled directors and actors argue "why should we penalised because of the sins of one actor?". Unless you let somebody like the Rock have his own pocket universe with Black Adam as an exception, I can only imagine the war of words he'd have with the studio if you sweep the red carpet under his feet right at the last minute.

It really is a screwed up situation. If Flash was the only DC movie coming out and all of these other movies didn't progress further than the scripting stage, the argument of doing a full-on reboot for the entire universe would be a lot more realistic.

The relevant issue is that Miller's Flash movie is toxic. There's simply no good option on the table for it. It was always destined to upset Snyderverse fans. But with recent news bits about Miller, the movie will upset pretty much anybody with a sense of decency.

I agree with you here. This Flash movie was not made in good faith and if Miller really is a grooming piece of sh*t, or God forbid, gets accused of something even worse, then throw it in the bin. I'm still a bit surprised he didn't get fired after he was arrested for a second time a couple of months ago, along with additional reports of violent behaviour.

Sometimes I wonder if Batgirl was made out of spite too. I'll never forget how those directors kept teasing the "real Batman" and posted pictures of Batfleck cowls and memes on social media, but then Keaton got cast. Not a knock on Keaton of course, he's one of the best. But that was rather sh*tty of them too trick people like that.

Meanwhile, Grant Morrison was interviewed by Rolling Stone some days ago, and spoke about the rejected script that he and Miller wrote for The Flash. He spoke about his experience with Miller.

And what was the deal with the ultimately unused Flash screenplay you wrote with Ezra?

Well, there had been a few versions, and as far as I remember, Ezra just wasn't quite happy with what they were getting at the time. And Ezra had a lot of ideas; they came to me with a book of ideas. And then we worked together. It really was just the two of us. They came over here to Scotland and hung out, and we wrote this thing. I really liked it. Warner Bros. only gave us two weeks! It was cruelty, you know. It was hardcore. We had to be like the Flash to get this thing done, and they were looking for something quite different. I got paid, and it was good fun. It didn't do the job they were looking for, which was to franchise things and set things up, and bring other characters in. It was a Flash story, so it wasn't where they wanted to go with multiverse and stuff. And that was the end of it.

...

You worked with Flash actor Ezra Miller, who is facing a series of ever-wilder accusations, from clashes with police in Hawaii to a family accusing him of grooming their child (which she denies). What do you make of their current situation?

I know they've had these problems. I haven't spoken to them for a while, and the last time I spoke was long, long before this. All I can say is that it's just not the person I know.  I've heard stories just like everyone else. I just don't know. Ezra cut off contact from pretty much everyone for a while. It's not the person they were. They weren't aggressive in any way.  I just thought Ezra was a super-intelligent kid with so many talents. So all I can say is that I didn't see that side in any way with them.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/grant-morrison-ezra-miller-john-lennon-superman-1367662/

He did keep Miller (if antics were known as mentioned a few posts back) and Amber for the nighmare scene in Justice League tho.

I give Snyder the benefit of the doubt for a couple of reasons: it's likely he didn't really know their true colours and wasn't privy to their personal lives, and there was only so much time and money he was given to shoot that Knightmare scene. Even if he wanted to, recasting those roles in ZSJL was simply not possible.

In hindsight, had the Miller incidents and the Heard trial happened a few years ago, this could've given the Snyder cut's release a lot of problems.

I don't even want to think about it.