The Flash (2022)

[Gotham Knight]

Um, how sure are we that Black Adam is the reason?

I think based on where everything landed we can say that Adam is probably the reason. It went to October because maybe WB thinks it isn't big and bad enough to complete in July. The Flash is in June, so I think they're still pretty confident in that release. In fact I'd say very confident since tis the blockbuster season. Aquaman isn't ready and Shazam moved up because the first was a fan favorite and 2 was cheaper to make (compared to the others) from what I hear.

The reason I ask is because the rumors floating around now are saying that WB is rethinking EVERYTHING in light of TB's success. People are breathlessly claiming that TB has a shot at $1 billion. I'm not sure about that, m'self.

But if WB wants to essentially use TB as DCEU ver. 2.0, they might want to delay The Flash so that they can reshoot key elements of it. Said reshoot will close the book on everything else they've done prior to TB.

That's a conspiracy theory and there are flaws in that logic. Nevertheless, that's the big rumor that's making the rounds at present.

Having said that, your analysis sounds credible as well. So, I have no idea what to think at this point.

In all honesty its all probably just COVID stuff. Cause everything is COVID stuff. COVID really screwed everything.

[The Joker]

Clearly, The Flash and Aquaman 2 were meant to come out this year. I heard a rumour this might be a result of the impending Discovery merger.

Whatever it is, something's up. I'm surprised they haven't announced the delay for Batgirl yet, surely there's no way for that movie to come out this year as it obviously ties into The Flash.

My first thought was, "Warners probably wants to add Pattinson into the Flash movie now." 

Course, I'm being a bit facetious, but with the current regime ... I wouldn't necessarily put it past them.

[The Joker]

Who's the best BATMAN?
Ben Affleck – 31%
Michael Keaton – 30%
Kevin Conroy – 28%
Christian Bale – 26%
Adam West – 25%

Who's the best BRUCE WAYNE?
Kevin Conroy – 34%
Ben Affleck – 33%
Michael Keaton – 33%
Adam West – 30%
Christian Bale – 29%

Who's the best CATWOMAN?
Michelle Pfeiffer – 29%
Anne Hathaway – 29%
Adrienne Barbeau – 29%
Halle Berry – 28%
Julie Newmar – 27%

Who are the best Batman VILLAINS?
Joker – 25%
Penguin – 19%
Riddler – 19%
Catwoman – 17%
Harley Quinn – 16%
Two-Face – 14%
Bane – 13%
Mr. Freeze – 13%
Man-Bat – 12%

https://pix11.com/entertainment/batman-survey-ben-affleck-edges-out-michael-keaton-as-best-caped-crusader/?fbclid=IwAR3hl6rdyr-nsO1RhIqaaMg_HAe9KwGgX-qjCpE_LpN_Cpiee3eFNGCoDGk

Kinda warms my heart seeing the Penguin ranked so highly. I remember Tim Burton or someone on the documentary from the Batman Returns SE DVD/Blu ray editions mentioning that Warners (back in 1990/1991) viewed the Penguin as Batman's #2 adversary, and I can't help but to have always thought the same. Even when it was obviously not true within the current comics even. Perhaps, this was due to me being influenced by my exposure as a child to Burgess Meredith's Penguin being prominently featured in the Batman '66 series (to which I was first introduced to right during '89's Batmania), which eventually was then followed up upon by Danny Devito's amazing performance as the Penguin in BR. I kinda felt the character was losing a bit of prominence in the public consciousness following his exclusion from the Nolan films, but I think his appearances in the Arkham games and the Gotham tv show more or less got the Penguin's footing back to where it needed to be. After Colin Farrell's portrayal in The Batman, in addition to what's to come with the HBO Max show, the sky is the limit, and it's safe to say that ol' Oswald is very much back, in the public's mind (which is very important), with the very upper hierarchy within Batman's rogues gallery.

[thecolorsblend]

Those Catwoman numbers are pretty shocking. Never knew the fanbase was so evenly divided over those actresses. I guess I assumed that Hathaway was a distant #2 to Pfeiffer and the others were left competing for scraps.

[The Joker]

True. Admittedly, I'm biased and Pfeiffer continues to remain very comfortably as the GOAT of cinematic Catwomen, but it is interesting how it's a three way tie, and the other's being not all that far apart in the vote.

[The Dark Knight]

Something that is more likely is the fact The Batman makes WB financially successful for 2022. Moving some of their big titles into next year helps them cement 2023. If The Batman opened weakly I suspect the schedule would have remained the same. 

[Silver Nemesis]

Who's the best CATWOMAN?
Michelle Pfeiffer – 29%
Anne Hathaway – 29%
Adrienne Barbeau – 29%
Halle Berry – 28%
Julie Newmar – 27%

Halle Berry's Catwoman ranked above Julie Newmar's? As far as I'm concerned, Newmar is more or less tied with Pfeiffer as the GOAT. At worst, she gets second place. But to rate her below Hathaway and Berry? I know recency bias is a factor here, but even so.

The absence of Meriwether and Kitt is equally egregious.

[thecolorsblend]

Who's the best CATWOMAN?
Michelle Pfeiffer – 29%
Anne Hathaway – 29%
Adrienne Barbeau – 29%
Halle Berry – 28%
Julie Newmar – 27%

Halle Berry's Catwoman ranked above Julie Newmar's? As far as I'm concerned, Newmar is more or less tied with Pfeiffer as the GOAT. At worst, she gets second place. But to rate her below Hathaway and Berry? I know recency bias is a factor here, but even so.

The absence of Meriwether and Kitt is equally egregious.

I can understand your confusion. But at the same time, there's a two point margin between the top spot and the last spot. That's a statistical irrelevance.

Still, if we're taking it upon ourselves to correct the list, I'd go with:

#1: Michelle Pfeiffer/Julie Newmar: Honestly, either of them could be #1 depending on the day. Or even the time of day. Pfeiffer's performance carries Catwoman's once mandatory sex appeal but mixes it with heaping helpings of crazy. It was a very modern portrayal of Catwoman for its time. Meanwhile, Newmar's Catwoman oozed sex appeal underlined with a nearly constant (but subdued and safe-for-TV) malevolence. To be distracted by her charm was to risk danger... or worse.

#3: Adrienne Barbeau: While Barbeau is a DISTANT number three, I emphasize that I have a tremendous amount of affection for her performance. What sets her back is her initial characterization, which she obviously had no control over. Specifically, I never enjoyed the PETA activist thing. If not that for that... well, she'd still be number three. But the gap would be a lot narrower, put it that way.

#4: Anne Hathaway: The role didn't demand much of her (in terms of performance; it's not my business to criticize a woman who runs in heels) but she didn't stink up the screen. Considering who her competition is, that means something in this thread.

#5: Halle Berry: I mean, speaking of stinking up the screen...

I always found Meriweather to be derivative of Newmar (and not in a way that benefits Meriweather) and I *NEVER* understood what the hype was all about with Eartha Kitt. Hence their absence from my list.

And as far as Zoe Kravitz is concerned... honestly, she's too new to rate. If I had more than a week of investment in her performance, I could probably give you a better answer. But as it stands, I am prepared to say now that she did the role proud and she's almost certainly a contender for number three on my above ranking. Nostalgia, skintight outfits and unapologetic sex appeal will probably always keep Pfeiffer and Newmar atop my list. But Kravitz definitely has an opportunity to own the role and make it her own in a way that Hathaway never did, and probably never aspired to. She's somebody to keep your eye on.

[Silver Nemesis]

Meriwether's version is my next favourite live action Catwoman after Newmar and Pfeiffer. For the following reasons. Firstly, she retweeted a link to my Batman: The Movie comic analysis feature back in 2012. That was nice of her. Secondly, she starred in the 1966 movie, which nowadays is my favourite live action Batman film. Thirdly, I find her stunningly beautiful.

I also think she was the most demure and ladylike of the Catwomen.

And fourthly, Meriwether was the only sixties Catwoman who had an alter ego that got to share a romance with Bruce Wayne, as opposed to simply flirting with Batman while they were both in costume. Pfeiffer and Hathaway were also romanced by Bruce in their civilian guises, but Newmar, Kitt and Kravitz weren't. Obviously this is down to writing and not the actor, but it still creates a different dynamic between Meriwether and West from what we saw between him and Newmar. Don't get me wrong – West and Newmar had tremendous chemistry (on a par with Keaton and Pfeiffer IMO) and West's Batman was clearly attracted to her. But she never broke his heart the way Meriwether's version did.

West's relationship with Newmar's Catwoman might be funnier, but his relationship with Kitka had a little more emotional depth. I also thought she was more cold-hearted and manipulative than Newmar. Newmar's Catwoman genuinely liked Batman, whereas Meriwether's version seemed to hate him and was only exploiting Bruce's affection for her own gain. For me, those differences are enough to distinguish Meriwether's Catwoman as a worthwhile interpretation independent of Newmar's.

As for Kitt, I've always felt that she was the weakest of the three sixties Catwomen but I still liked her. The introduction of Batgirl in the third season meant that the writers effectively dropped the romance angle between Batman and Catwoman, and because of that Kitt's version became a lot less flirty and a lot more villainous. I found her to be the most menacing of the sixties Catwomen. The one most likely to actually kill Batman.

Hathaway's version is ok, but looking back on her now she strikes me as pretty bland and unlikeable. She doesn't own a cat, doesn't use a whip, doesn't have claws and isn't called Catwoman. The cat theme is incidental and doesn't really reflect any affinity for her feline totem. I also find it odd that diehard Nolan fans would rip into Burton's Batman for killing, but none of them seemed to have a problem with the Nolanverse Selina casually gunning down criminals in a bar.

There have been murderous versions of Catwoman in the comics (see the Silver Age version or the Catwoman from the Max Allan Collins/Marshall Rogers newspaper strip), but the mainstream Selina only uses lethal force on extremely rare occasions and even then with great reluctance. Pfeiffer's Catwoman killed Shreck, but she was clearly conflicted about it and spent the entire movie having to psych herself up to the deed. Elsewhere in the film she never used lethal force, made sure to scare the security guards out of Shreck's department store before blowing it up, and reacted with horror when Penguin killed the Ice Princess. But Hathaway's Selina was, in my opinion, a little too blasé about killing. The whole coy head tilting thing she did annoyed me as well. Hathaway's version isn't bad. But on my league table, I'd rank her below Newmar, Pfeiffer, Meriwether and Kravitz.

Halle Berry's Catwoman... I can't think of anything nice to say about her. Berry could have made a decent Catwoman with a better script and director, but the one she delivered in the 2004 movie was just dreadful.

[The Joker]

Meriwether's version is my next favourite live action Catwoman after Newmar and Pfeiffer. For the following reasons. Firstly, she retweeted a link to my Batman: The Movie comic analysis feature back in 2012. That was nice of her. Secondly, she starred in the 1966 movie, which nowadays is my favourite live action Batman film. Thirdly, I find her stunningly beautiful.

I also think she was the most demure and ladylike of the Catwomen.

And fourthly, Meriwether was the only sixties Catwoman who had an alter ego that got to share a romance with Bruce Wayne, as opposed to simply flirting with Batman while they were both in costume. Pfeiffer and Hathaway were also romanced by Bruce in their civilian guises, but Newmar, Kitt and Kravitz weren't. Obviously this is down to writing and not the actor, but it still creates a different dynamic between Meriwether and West from what we saw between him and Newmar. Don't get me wrong – West and Newmar had tremendous chemistry (on a par with Keaton and Pfeiffer IMO) and West's Batman was clearly attracted to her. But she never broke his heart the way Meriwether's version did.

West's relationship with Newmar's Catwoman might be funnier, but his relationship with Kitka had a little more emotional depth. I also thought she was more cold-hearted and manipulative than Newmar. Newmar's Catwoman genuinely like Batman, whereas Meriwether's version seemed to hate him and was only exploiting Bruce's affection for her own gain. For me, those differences are enough to distinguish Meriwether's Catwoman as a worthwhile interpretation independent of Newmar's.

In addition to everything Silver stated, Meriwether's Catwoman was absolutely the most accessible Catwoman for fans of the '66 series that were around during the VHS era. As "Batman The Movie" was the only 'official' VHS release that was widely available to own when it came to Adam West Batman (and even on DVD for a good long while as well!). Having said that, I think there is a fandom who have a lot of nostalgia and affection for Meriwether's Catwoman due to not only her distinguishing interpretation, but also being the one that could be visited and revisited on home video.

Unless of course you were recording episodes of the tv show airings using a VHS recorder. Which I was certainly guilty of.

Speaking of attractiveness, it's subjective of course, but I have to say that if I had the 'pick of the litter' between circa 1966 Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, and Eartha Kitt .... I would go with Lee Meriwether immediately. Nothing wrong with Newmar and Kitt, and Newmar certainly exuded a undeniable sexuality that automatically made her extremely alluring anytime she appeared as Catwoman on the show, but a 1966 Lee Meriwether is just, overall, more my type.

Meriwether reappearing on Season 2, post-"Batman The Movie", as Lisa Carson in the two-part episodes, "King Tut's Coup", "Batman's Waterloo" was also a very nice salute from producer William Dozier. For a show that didn't exactly shy away from sexual innuendo's from time to time, Bruce accepting an invitation from Meriwether's Lisa Carson for some late night milk and homemade cookies (and you know much, much more) inside her apartment stands out.

Who could blame him!?!