The Flash (2022)

[thecolorsblend]

•   The solo/Burtonverse trilogy: Batman '89, Batman Returns, Batman Beyond

Wouldn't it be lovely if Burton somehow got roped into directing a Batman Beyond film?

[The Joker]

Meanwhile, it seems Michael Shannon and Antje Traue are coming back.

I don't think they necessarily need to specify whether Batman Beyond takes place in the original Burtonverse or DCEU continuities. They just need a Neo-Gotham that reflects the dieselpunk/Art Deco/Gothic/German Expressionist fusion of the classic Burton version, only projected a further half a century into the future. Something like this.

Let the viewers decide for themselves whether this is part of the original Earth-89 continuity or that of the post-Flash DCEU. Ideally it would be better if it was the Earth-89 timeline.

That's pretty much what I was getting at. Take the approach that Fox took with the X-Men films where Batman Beyond doesn't necessarily adhere to whatever continuity is "current" in the DCEU (so in other words, audiences would take note of continuity contradictions from any previous DCEU Keaton appearances). Essentially a LOGAN  type of procedure that references the first film (B89 and perhaps some from BR), and that's it. Which would give the project, at the very least, the sentiment that a Keaton Batman Beyond is the *true* bookend to the Keaton's Batman within the Burtonverse.

That way they could include flashbacks depicting Jack's Joker. But even if the studio wants to play it ambiguous, they could just mention that there was a Joker, whose real name was Jack Napier, and he was killed a long time ago by Batman. That's all you need to set up Return of the Joker, and it would be consistent with the events of the 1989 film.

Works for me.

[The Laughing Fish]

Leslie Grace has confirmed the news of Keaton appearing in Batgirl, saying "the bat's out the bag".

https://twitter.com/lesliegrace/status/1473783487832281088?s=20

What a disaster. Sorry, as much as I love Keaton's Batman, this is just a bloody awful idea. It makes doubt if he's even going to be the same Batman we once knew.

Warner is a joke.

[The Laughing Fish]

Meanwhile, it seems Michael Shannon and Antje Traue are coming back.

Don't get too excited. Knowing those hacks in charge of the studio, Barry will run back in time during events of MOS to undo the entire third act, as a way of saying f*** you to Zack Snyder. 

My anticipation for this movie is at an all time low.

[The Dark Knight]

Bottom line, If I see this film, its mostly for Batman. And if it has Keatons seal of apporval then that's enough for me right now. If it sucks, it's a bitter pill to swollow but life goes on.

We'll see how everything pans out with Keaton, but the Pattinson era is very appealing to me right now. A self contained setup that every Batman apart from Affleck had, removed from any other plans with room to expand and be its own thing. Pattinson's Bruce sounds very much like Keaton's from B89/BR, but darker. It represents a new beginning rather than a muddle. I'm cool with this being the main event.

[thecolorsblend]

but the Pattinson era is very appealing to me right now. A self contained setup that every Batman apart from Affleck had, removed from any other plans with room to expand and be its own thing. Pattinson's Bruce sounds very much like Keaton's from B89/BR, but darker. It represents a new beginning rather than a muddle. I'm cool with this being the main event.

Same. Pattinson's version is shaping up to be the Darkest Knight You Ever Saw.

Somehow, against all odds, I've become the guy who favors a self-contained/non-shared approach to these superhero films now. Weird. But there it is.

[The Laughing Fish]

Same. Pattinson's version is shaping up to be the Darkest Knight You Ever Saw.

I don't give two sh*ts about Pattinson's version, and if it's true he is the "Darkest Knight You Ever Saw" then that's just a kick in the balls after all the overblown furore over Batfleck, who got derailed for nothing. I'm not participating in that sh*t.

Plus I hate to say it (and it's somthing I had to accept). If it sucks, it sucks. I still have 89 and Returns to enjoy and they (as of this post) the 89/returns era was decades before present day Batman so it's not directly touching those movies (if at all).

At the end of the day if I'm not feeling the adverting, I'll not see the movie since it seems like Keaton might not be in it much, I'll just not see it in theatres and just rent it. I don't feel obligated to watch something because I'm being dangled with Nostalgia.

The fact you have any skepticism over this movie is a sad indictment on WB's gross mismanagement over all things DC over the last four to five years. The Flash should be the most exciting production coming out, but instead, it's met with division and skepticism.

The sad thing is, there was almost almost no rection to Keaton showing up in the trailer, same can not be said about the new Spider-man movie. I'll be suprised if I see that kind of reaction in the Flash and thats a little depressing.

The trailer itself wasn't "officially" released worldwide, as far as I understand. It was only a DC FanDome exclusive. But yes, I notice that outside of the Internet, a lot of people are curious but not overwhelmed with excitement with Keaton's return. A part of me is sad about that, but another part of me believes it's yet another telling example of how DC has been badly mismanaged, as I have said.

Warners has been very hit or miss so for me there's a 50% chance if might be good or bad. WB's also not the only studio thats shoves their ideas into films. It's the same reason John Favreau left Iron Man 3 and one reason why I refuse to watch Iron Man and put me in the wrong footing into the MCU (which has it's on complains of Directors not being allowed to express their vision in sacrifice for the corporate agenda). They just happen to make films most people like.

Marvel Studios has been meddling with their directors too, yes, but the difference is they have much better PR than Warner. Warner has caused a lot of bad publicity with the whole Josstice L reshoots and denying ZSJL had existed for nearly four years, and have doubled down on diversity politics ever since Ray Fisher put them on blast. Their continued antagonising of all things Snyderverse, including Fisher's firing from The Flash, doesn't bode well for the film's prospects and caused even more bad publicity.

For all the talk about the multiverse, Warner has gone against themselves by refusing Green Lantern characters in ZSJL out of spite, not responding for any demands to spin-offs and most embarrassingly of all, have Marvel already beat them to do a multiverse movie in NWH that reportedly embraces all things Spider-Man. Whereas, the division over The Flash stems from rumours it will try to reboot the universe. Marvel might see a Snyder cut scenario with Doctor Strange 2 if the reshoots are that drastic, but until then, they have much more professionalism than the hacks in charge of Warner. That's regardless whether you like the MCU or not.

Bottom line, If I see this film, its mostly for Batman. And if it has Keatons seal of apporval then that's enough for me right now. If it sucks, it's a bitter pill to swollow but life goes on.

At this stage, I don't plan to see The Flash or Batgirl for that matter. I don't trust Warner having good intentions in producing these movies, and I'm not going to put myself at risk of further disappointment to see Keaton making his decades long return only to potentially get the Jake Skywalker treatment.

[The Dark Knight]

but the Pattinson era is very appealing to me right now. A self contained setup that every Batman apart from Affleck had, removed from any other plans with room to expand and be its own thing. Pattinson's Bruce sounds very much like Keaton's from B89/BR, but darker. It represents a new beginning rather than a muddle. I'm cool with this being the main event.

Same. Pattinson's version is shaping up to be the Darkest Knight You Ever Saw.

Somehow, against all odds, I've become the guy who favors a self-contained/non-shared approach to these superhero films now. Weird. But there it is.

As a fan of Batman and not just one version of him, the new timeline presents itself as an exciting prospect. My ideal Pattinsonverse would be true separation. Time travel, other versions of heroes, etc don't exist even if Battinson isn't aware of it. There's planet Earth and that's it. The multiverse has its place in comic mythology, but with certain stories, such as those with heightened realism, it's counterproductive. It can't help but undermine a sense of individuality, at least for me, because other worlds are out there and yours becomes less special. I don't think the multiverse should be on the table there. Reeves doesn't have any convoluted timeline repair, just straight up solo Batman. Keaton is fantastic, and I'm eager to see him strut his stuff again. But I'm also feeling like the baton could have been passed.

[Silver Nemesis]

Another idea I had was that it is possible that Zod exists in the 89 universe and it is in fact that universe that gets annihilated by him and causes Batman to make the sacrifice.

Consider this: What if in his attempt to make his own Justice League, Barry sets his team out out to save Supergirl from captivity as she will no doubt be the centerpiece, but in doing so he somehow awakens Earth-89's Zod.

These are credible scenarios. Though I would imagine the General Zod of the Burtonverse to be more like Terence Stamp's version than Shannon's. If they could get Stamp back as Zod, either digitally de-aged or just portraying an older version of the character exclusive to the Burtonverse, then that would be epic.

Not to alarm anyone, but my worst fear, the absolute worst case scenario we might be facing here, is that DC and WB are trying to purge the ranks of the Justice League of all straight white male heroes and replace them with diverse substitutes. If that's the case, then I can see them introducing an alternate timeline in which Shannon's Zod defeated Superman and Supergirl has to step up to take his place, and in which Batgirl has to seize the mantle of the bat from an old emasculated broken-down Bruce Wayne. This would be full Justice League Woke territory, positioning Supergirl and Batgirl as the new World's Finest, but I can't believe the studio would be reckless or insane enough to do it. Not when there's room for Superman, Supergirl, Batman and Batgirl to co-exist with equal dignity. Such an approach would destroy any goodwill garnered by Keaton's return and condemn the entire DCEU to ruin. So I don't really think it will happen. But it is a frightening possibility.

Wouldn't it be lovely if Burton somehow got roped into directing a Batman Beyond film?

That would be swell. Revisiting an earlier stage of his career might also provide the creative jolt Burton needs to get emotionally reinvested in his work. Since they're obviously trying to cash in on the nostalgia associated with the Keaton movies, the studio must be at least considering extending the olive branch to Burton. Hopefully enough time's passed since the Superman Lives debacle that he'd be willing to work for them again.

That's pretty much what I was getting at. Take the approach that Fox took with the X-Men films where Batman Beyond doesn't necessarily adhere to whatever continuity is "current" in the DCEU (so in other words, audiences would take note of continuity contradictions from any previous DCEU Keaton appearances). Essentially a LOGAN  type of procedure that references the first film (B89 and perhaps some from BR), and that's it. Which would give the project, at the very least, the sentiment that a Keaton Batman Beyond is the *true* bookend to the Keaton's Batman within the Burtonverse.

Logan is a great analogy. I hadn't thought to cite that, but it's relationship to the earlier X-Men films – or more precisely, it's chronological distance from them – is exactly what we need from Batman Beyond.

but the Pattinson era is very appealing to me right now. A self contained setup that every Batman apart from Affleck had, removed from any other plans with room to expand and be its own thing. Pattinson's Bruce sounds very much like Keaton's from B89/BR, but darker. It represents a new beginning rather than a muddle. I'm cool with this being the main event.

Same. Pattinson's version is shaping up to be the Darkest Knight You Ever Saw.

Somehow, against all odds, I've become the guy who favors a self-contained/non-shared approach to these superhero films now. Weird. But there it is.

As a fan of Batman and not just one version of him, the new timeline presents itself as an exciting prospect. My ideal Pattinsonverse would be true separation. Time travel, other versions of heroes, etc don't exist even if Battinson isn't aware of it. There's planet Earth and that's it. The multiverse has its place in comic mythology, but with certain stories, such as those with heightened realism, it's counterproductive. It can't help but undermine a sense of individuality, at least for me, because other worlds are out there and yours becomes less special. I don't think the multiverse should be on the table there. Reeves doesn't have any convoluted timeline repair, just straight up solo Batman. Keaton is fantastic, and I'm eager to see him strut his stuff again. But I'm also feeling like the baton could have been passed.

My excitement for The Flash and Batgirl is entirely down to Keaton's involvement and the potential this creates for a proper Batman Beyond sequel to B89 and BR. Take Keaton away, and I couldn't care less about these films. Even with Keaton, my expectations regarding their quality are low. But I'm still looking forward to them.

With Reeves' The Batman, however, I think we're in for a genuinely good film. His trilogy has the potential to be the heir to Nolan's TDK trilogy in terms of quality. The fact it promises to be self-contained is a major plus point in its favour. The whole shared universe thing was a cool novelty ten years ago, but by now the novelty is wearing thin. I'm ready for a good old fashioned self-contained Batman movie, like the ones we got between 1989 and 2012.

[Gotham Knight]

A new outline of the Batgirl plot has leaked. It suggests that it will mostly be a detective story dividing its time between Firefly and the Falcones. As for Batman, he disappeared years ago, but inspired a new generation of Gotham heroes IE Canary and the folks from Bird's of Prey. Babs returns from college and despite James Gordon's protests, lands a desk job where she starts tracking a vengeful firefighter turned arch criminal. She crafts a makeshift batsuit to pursue him. Her use of the iconography gets her noticed by the big man and it turns out that the Canary is a go between, who trains her at the behest of Mister Wayne. When the day gets saved, Babs is dubbed Batman's successor.