The Flash (2022)

[Gotham Knight]

There is an interview going around that quotes Ben Affleck saying that he is done doing IPs. "I don't want to do IP movies where you have this sort of built-in audience. That's something I was interested in and liked, and I just don't like it anymore."

[The Dark Knight]

It could go either way, but for now I'm sticking with my original theory: the Burton Batman will probably die in The Flash, as the Flashpoint Batman did in the original comic, and then the movie will end with a new Batman being introduced in the DCEU that will also be played by Keaton.

I would be disappointed if this happened and would view it unnecessary. It's something I could accept with a Thomas Wayne Batman, who is truly an Elseworlds Bizarro creation inverting the customary interpretation. But for an established and known Batman they don't need to go that far. Things wouldn't have the same impact if the Burton incarnation was stone cold killed, erasing all his memories and keeping only his shell. The whole point should be it's the same man but in a different setting, and how he reacts to that. I'm holding out hope that's the route they take, because it's clear to me Keaton's going to be the actor.

[Silver Nemesis]

He might not die. I only suspect he might because of the unfortunate recent trend for killing off older white male heroes for cheap emotional effect (Han Solo, John Wesley Shipp's Flash, Luke Skywalker, James Bond, probably Indiana Jones, etc). I can imagine them doing that to Keaton in The Flash. But even if it does happen, the rumour I've heard is that the events of Batman 89 and Batman Returns will still be retconned into the DCEU. So they will now officially be the first films in the DCEU timeline. That way even if Batman is killed and resurrected, he'll still have memories of battling the Joker and dating Selina Kyle. I suspect he might also share Batfleck's memories too, as if the new Batman were an amalgamation of the Burtonverse and DCEU incarnations.

It's important for me that there is some continuity between any future Keaton Batman movies and the old ones, otherwise what's the point in bringing him back? I also want a potential Batman Beyond movie to be directly connected to B89 and BR, ideally with as little connection to the rest of the DCEU as possible. I basically want Batman Beyond to be the third movie in the Burton trilogy. B89 already offers the perfect set up for a live action Return of the Joker film, as we've discussed at some length on this site. So it's a logical direction to go in.

But if they do kill the Burton Batman off, it'll probably be as hollow and impermanent as Captain Kirk's death in Star Trek Into Darkness. He'll die heroically, only to be resurrected five minutes later. That's assuming my theory is correct, which it might not be.

[The Joker]

He might not die. I only suspect he might because of the unfortunate recent trend for killing off older white male heroes for cheap emotional effect (Han Solo, John Wesley Shipp's Flash, Luke Skywalker, James Bond, probably Indiana Jones, etc). I can imagine them doing that to Keaton in The Flash.

Point very well taken. As, unfortunately, that is the climate in which we're living in right now.

But even if it does happen, the rumour I've heard is that the events of Batman 89 and Batman Returns will still be retconned into the DCEU. So they will now officially be the first films in the DCEU timeline. That way even if Batman is killed and resurrected, he'll still have memories of battling the Joker and dating Selina Kyle. I suspect he might also share Batfleck's memories too, as if the new Batman were an amalgamation of the Burtonverse and DCEU incarnations.

I don't know. I guess I would be relatively ok with this considering the circumstances, but it's definitely not preferable. Just the notion of amalgamating Keaton and Affleck's Batman into one comes across as cluttering and creating continuity/history problems. Course, the very recent comments from Affleck, who's had to deal with a concatenation of behind the scenes shenanigans and outright incompetence for years now, can't be ignored, and is a factor as well. If Affleck is mentally checked out, he's mentally checked out. Can't blame the guy, and Warners isn't going to not push Batman, especially as a cinematic IP, so here we are....

It's important for me that there is some continuity between any future Keaton Batman movies and the old ones, otherwise what's the point in bringing him back? I also want a potential Batman Beyond movie to be directly connected to B89 and BR, ideally with as little connection to the rest of the DCEU as possible. I basically want Batman Beyond to be the third movie in the Burton trilogy. B89 already offers the perfect set up for a live action Return of the Joker film, as we've discussed at some length on this site. So it's a logical direction to go in.

AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY! 100%

[The Dark Knight]

It's important for me that there is some continuity between any future Keaton Batman movies and the old ones, otherwise what's the point in bringing him back? I also want a potential Batman Beyond movie to be directly connected to B89 and BR, ideally with as little connection to the rest of the DCEU as possible. I basically want Batman Beyond to be the third movie in the Burton trilogy. B89 already offers the perfect set up for a live action Return of the Joker film, as we've discussed at some length on this site. So it's a logical direction to go in.

I've accepted that when it comes to the Burtonverse I'm perfectly happy with just the first two films, and whatever follows can either be a nice bonus, or in the worst case scenario, ignored. The B89 comic continuation is falling into the latter category for me. B89 and BR have true purity given who made them and when. In terms of the comic, the Burton vibe just wasn't achieved. Yes, Wayans would've been Robin. Billy Dee would've been Two Face.

It has some good thing going for it, but on the whole I can't believe this is exactly how the universe evolved. And my concern is that the Batgirl movie will serve as Keaton's Beyond inspired mentor movie. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see Keaton again. A lot just depends on how I feel about The Flash's storytelling techniques. No Way Home seems to meet fan expectations in that regard.

There is an interview going around that quotes Ben Affleck saying that he is done doing IPs. "I don't want to do IP movies where you have this sort of built-in audience. That's something I was interested in and liked, and I just don't like it anymore."

Back to this - I believe there's an element of reclaiming control here with this comment by Ben. And that's not a criticism. After The Flash, if predictions are correct, there won't be an ongoing role for him going forward. I had hope in the HBO Max opportunity, but nothing has transpired there. And unfortunately I can't see that changing. Ben did the cameo for The Flash and that seems to be it for him.

[The Laughing Fish]

I don't know. I guess I would be relatively ok with this considering the circumstances, but it's definitely not preferable. Just the notion of amalgamating Keaton and Affleck's Batman into one comes across as cluttering and creating continuity/history problems.

I'll be much more blunt than that, it's a f***ing abysmal idea. It sounds like really bad fan fiction. If I hadn't made myself clear before, I am now.

Same goes for either Batman dying. I don't want to see that happening either.

Merging Keaton and Affleck's continuity together while selectively retaining some existing continuity from the Burton era is the equivalent of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, as you once put it, and it would only confuse mass audiences. If Affleck was considered way too old by some detractors then what does that make Keaton?

I repeat, if Keaton were to come back to play Batman again on a recurring basis then he should continue playing the character we all know and love, that was established back in '89 and '92. Not come back as some bastardised, hijacked and worst of all, unrecognisable version of himself. Seriously, who the f*** wants that?

Neither of these hypothetical theories as Keaton as the new DC Batman are any good, and if any of these were to happen then Warner Butchers' gross mismanagement of the DC franchise would not only continue, but sink even further.

Course, the very recent comments from Affleck, who's had to deal with a concatenation of behind the scenes shenanigans and outright incompetence for years now, can't be ignored, and is a factor as well. If Affleck is mentally checked out, he's mentally checked out. Can't blame the guy, and Warners isn't going to not push Batman, especially as a cinematic IP, so here we are....

Judging by Affleck's comments, the context he was talking about was the changing viewing landscape of how people might prioritise dramas via streaming instead of going to the theater, that's dominated by big IPs. He didn't emphatically say he won't ever play Batman again after The Flash. But if he doesn't want to do it again, then yeah, I can't say I would blame him either, after everything we now know about the abusive garbage that happened behind the scenes of JL. Even filming those additional epilogue scenes for ZSJL during lockdown last year were still compromised, as the "We live in a society" scene was forced out and rewritten out of the final cut, and GL's disgraceful removal.

My guess is if ZSJL Part 2 and 3 were to be greenlit tomorrow, Affleck would easily come back to star in them. From what I understand, he is very loyal to Snyder's vision, and it's more than likely he would've been invested in finishing off his character's story that started in BvS and then call it a day. Somehow, I don't think him doing the filming of those epilogue scenes in ZSJL was just doing Zack a favour.

That being said, I don't understand why Affleck would agree to appear in The Flash if it as an alternative option to bid farewell. Doing that would only undo the expansion of the Knightmare world and meeting Martian Manhunter at the end of ZSJL. If he really had enough with big IPs, wouldn't it make much more sense to say to Snyder and Muschietti "thanks, but no thanks"? At this point in time, only he knows the answer to the question, while the rest of us only have conjecture to work with.

We should have clearer ideas over where this is all heading in the next few months, including the completion of the Discovery merger. The thing is, people in Hollywood tend to act all coy and then change their tune later. For example, Henry Cavill said he didn't know a Snyder cut existed two years ago, but now he is singing the movie's praises in interviews and he's talking about how the Anti-Life was going to brainwash Superman in the planned JL2. And of course there was the whole business over Feige and Holland pretending Spider-Man's time in the MCU was over, and look what happened. So there's that.

[Kamdan]

There is an interview going around that quotes Ben Affleck saying that he is done doing IPs. "I don't want to do IP movies where you have this sort of built-in audience. That's something I was interested in and liked, and I just don't like it anymore."

Would Affleck be saying these things if the IP movies he was involved in were successful?

[Silver Nemesis]

I don't know. I guess I would be relatively ok with this considering the circumstances, but it's definitely not preferable. Just the notion of amalgamating Keaton and Affleck's Batman into one comes across as cluttering and creating continuity/history problems. Course, the very recent comments from Affleck, who's had to deal with a concatenation of behind the scenes shenanigans and outright incompetence for years now, can't be ignored, and is a factor as well. If Affleck is mentally checked out, he's mentally checked out. Can't blame the guy, and Warners isn't going to not push Batman, especially as a cinematic IP, so here we are....

It would be awkward. I should just clarify that the amalgamation angle is merely a theory on my part to explain how they might reconcile aspects of Batfleck's mythology, such as Simmons' Gordon, with aspects of Keaton's mythology. No reliable source has confirmed they will do this. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The whole Multiverse trend is going to make things incredibly messy for both the MCU and DCEU, just like it made things messy in the comics.

It has some good thing going for it, but on the whole I can't believe this is exactly how the universe evolved. And my concern is that the Batgirl movie will serve as Keaton's Beyond inspired mentor movie. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see Keaton again. A lot just depends on how I feel about The Flash's storytelling techniques. No Way Home seems to meet fan expectations in that regard.

I have no problem with Batman appearing in a mentor role in the Batgirl movie, unless... unless it turns out that the Batgirl movie is the Batman Beyond movie. That we're getting it instead of Batman Beyond rather than in addition to it. That would be a terrible waste. There'd be no Neo Gotham, no Terry McGinnis, no return of Jack Napier's Joker. That would be a crushing disappointment if it turned out to be the case.

To expand on my point about Batman Beyond being unrelated to the rest of the DCEU, I want it set in a cyberpunk future so that it's removed from the timeframe of the other DC movies, and so that fans can go straight from Batman Returns to Batman Beyond without needing to watch The Flash or Batgirl in between. Bruce will be in his sixties/seventies in these new movies, but in Batman Beyond Keaton should be digitally aged to look like he's in his eighties or nineties. The Flash is Keaton's Dark Knight Returns, but Batman Beyond needs to be set further in the future when he's older. A Batgirl movie set in the present day is fine as its own thing, but it's unacceptable as a substitute for a proper Batman Beyond film.

Right now there's no reason to assume that Batgirl and Batman Beyond are one and the same project. Whatever plans WB has for Keaton's Batman, they probably won't reveal them until after The Flash has been released to avoid spoiling the plot of that movie. For all we know, they might be in the early stages of developing a BB movie right now. I hope so. But as we've already said in previous discussions, they really need to get Burton and Elfman involved in the BB film.

Back to this - I believe there's an element of reclaiming control here with this comment by Ben. And that's not a criticism. After The Flash, if predictions are correct, there won't be an ongoing role for him going forward. I had hope in the HBO Max opportunity, but nothing has transpired there. And unfortunately I can't see that changing. Ben did the cameo for The Flash and that seems to be it for him.

Yeah, I think Ben's done with the role. For now at least. But with the Multiverse connecting everything, the door's always open for him to return sometime in the future. I mean if Keaton can come back three decades after quitting the role then anything's possible. But as far as the immediate future's concerned, I expect Ben's going to try and reposition his career the way he did with The Town and Argo. He'll probably avoid big budget movies in favour of smaller more personal projects that will earn him some respect within the industry.

[The Dark Knight]

It has some good thing going for it, but on the whole I can't believe this is exactly how the universe evolved. And my concern is that the Batgirl movie will serve as Keaton's Beyond inspired mentor movie. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see Keaton again. A lot just depends on how I feel about The Flash's storytelling techniques. No Way Home seems to meet fan expectations in that regard.

I have no problem with Batman appearing in a mentor role in the Batgirl movie, unless... unless it turns out that the Batgirl movie is the Batman Beyond movie. That we're getting it instead of Batman Beyond rather than in addition to it. That would be a terrible waste. There'd be no Neo Gotham, no Terry McGinnis, no return of Jack Napier's Joker. That would be a crushing disappointment if it turned out to be the case.

To expand on my point about Batman Beyond being unrelated to the rest of the DCEU, I want it set in a cyberpunk future so that it's removed from the timeframe of the other DC movies, and so that fans can go straight from Batman Returns to Batman Beyond without needing to watch The Flash or Batgirl in between. Bruce will be in his sixties/seventies in these new movies, but in Batman Beyond Keaton should be digitally aged to look like he's in his eighties or nineties. The Flash is Keaton's Dark Knight Returns, but Batman Beyond needs to be set further in the future when he's older. A Batgirl movie set in the present day is fine as its own thing, but it's unacceptable as a substitute for a proper Batman Beyond film.

Right now there's no reason to assume that Batgirl and Batman Beyond are one and the same project. Whatever plans WB has for Keaton's Batman, they probably won't reveal them until after The Flash has been released to avoid spoiling the plot of that movie. For all we know, they might be in the early stages of developing a BB movie right now. I hope so. But as we've already said in previous discussions, they really need to get Burton and Elfman involved in the BB film.

If Keaton is a mentor in Batgirl, are they going to present the same concept in live action again a short time after? At the moment I'm leaning on the perhaps not side. Are they going to do a time jump to cyberpunk if they want Keaton in a contemporary ongoing role? Maybe not. Then you have to consider who that student would be. It's Woke World, so you bet they're going to be female and of color. They have those boxes ticked already. I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to think this way. I say brace yourself for the possibility.

[thecolorsblend]

Then you have to consider who that student would be. It's Woke World, so you bet they're going to be female and of color. They have those boxes ticked already. I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to think this way. I say brace yourself for the possibility.

Sad state of affairs. But it is true that we're now in a world where fans need to weigh their desire to see certain previously unseen comic book concepts against the near certainty that if it ever happens, it'll be a woke form.

Sure, I want to see a live action Batman Beyond. But I'm not sure I need an alphabet soup version of Terry lecturing 90+ year old Bruce on his "privilege" or whatever.