The Flash (2022)

[thecolorsblend]

Looks like they're aiming for the same basic aesthetic as the TV show.

Thrilling...

[BatmanFurst]

I'm trying to figure out what vehicle Batman and Flash are sitting in for the first image. Also, whose Batcave is that? I hope it isn't Keaton's because both of the Burton Batcave's look better than that.

I'm wondering if the suit pic that got released a month ago is something that Batman wears in the third act.

[Silver Nemesis]

I don't think we should read too much into these images. I expect they're just early concept pieces, like the picture that was shown at the FanDome event last year. The images of Keaton are obviously taken from existing sources, and as such do not correspond with the new costume that Muschietti recently teased. For example:

The above concept art resembles the scene from Flashpoint where Batman, Flash and Cyborg discover Superman in his cell.

I'm guessing the figure cowering on the floor is meant to be Superman. If so, this contradicts the recent reports that (POSSIBLE SPOILERS) the central conflict in the movie will be based on the metahuman war from Kingdom Come rather than the conflict between the Atlanteans and Amazons in Flashpoint, and that Brandon Routh might be appearing in the Burtonverse scenes as the Donnerverse Superman (END SPOILERS). Alternatively, perhaps the recent reports are true and this concept art simply predates the latest draft of the script. These images might have been created at a time when the film's plot was intended to adhere more closely to that of the Flashpoint comic. I suspect the figure whose face is obscured by the spoiler warning might be Cyborg, which would further indicate that these are old concept images predating Ray Fisher's departure from the DCEU.

Another possibility is that the figure cowering on the floor is Supergirl, who in this universe might stand in for Superman.

This next picture obviously depicts Keaton wearing the mask minus the eye makeup.

On a somewhat related note, here's a cool picture I stumbled across recently that shows him wearing the eye makeup without the mask. This is one of the few pictures that shows Keaton in costume minus the cape and cowl.

Presumably this is what he would have looked like during the deleted scene where Knox is found outside the cathedral.

Bit of a digression from the topic at hand, but I thought it was an interesting pic worth sharing.

[The Dark Knight]

In a modern Batman Beyond movie, he could slaughter twice that amount. It would also create an opportunity to bring back the Joker's lethal pranks, which haven't appeared in a live action movie since 1989. We never actually saw him spray anyone in the face with his acid-squirting flower in the original film, although we did see the aftermath with Alicia. In Batman Beyond, we could have a more graphic depiction of what the Joker's acid attacks would look like. We could see him electrocuting someone again, only this time we could watch the flesh burning without cutting away. I'm not say that this kind of graphic violence is necessary, or even desirable, but it is a possibility. And as you say, it might alter people's perception of how threatening Jack's Joker is.

Supernatural possession has long appealed to me in terms of a hypothetical Nicholson return. His reveal could literally be a repeat of his original entrance - walking into a room as a silhouette saying "I've been dead twice already, it's very liberating."

Joker's plot in 1989 was simply to gas the populace, which shows a total disregard for humanity to begin with. A resurrected Joker should reflect he's quite literally a monster with nothing to lose. It needs to be a big, scary deal with fear on the streets, just as panic gripped Gotham with the beauty product poisonings. They may dismiss the idea of the Joker's return to begin with, but like 1897's Dracula, people soon begin to believe.

Unfortunately it's hard to imagine a modern Hollywood studio having the guts to criticise a mass media of which its own industry is a central component. Even the comic industry wouldn't do that now. Back in the eighties, Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns presented readers with a dystopian tale that reflected the anxieties of Cold War America. Nowadays, the only time DC gets political is to get woke.

Precisely. As the saying goes, who wins the fight depends on who is writing the story. And these stories are being written by one group of people. They're not going to explore themes that contradict their own world view. Plain and simple.

Imagine a dark R-rated Batman Beyond movie set ten or twenty years in the future. Speech is tightly regulated, law enforcement has been cripplingly defunded, and both inflation and crime are skyrocketing like never before. 'Neo Gotham' could be a hollow political slogan tied to a proposed urban redevelopment campaign, similar to 'Delta City' in the RoboCop films. Keaton's Bruce Wayne, now fully retired from both his public and crime fighting lives, is observing this societal decay from the solitude of stately Wayne Manor as he slowly drinks himself to death. He's haunted by memories of the past, and in particular by nightmares of Jack Napier. Then one night a teenager named Terry McGinnis breaks into his home and stumbles across the Batcave. Soon after, the media begins reporting on new 'bat sightings', as well as a new wave of crimes that bear an uncanny resemblance to the Joker killings of fifty years previous. Victims are being found across the city with grotesque smiles on their faces. Is it the work of a copycat killer, or has Batman's nemesis somehow returned from beyond the grave? Either way, Bruce has little time to prepare his new protégé for the monumental battle that's about to begin.

I would happily pay an extortionate ticket price to see that film.

That is a killer pitch. As I said previously, "where do you go to from there?" when the world is already resembling dystopian fiction of yesteryear. This is the answer. Showing the further decay of the choices that led us to 2021 in the first place. A totally lawless sh!thole where statues are built to worship martyred criminals. Ironically, the Joker may not be wrong in his quest to destroy Gotham. Fahrenheit 451 ends with the city destroyed via nuclear weapons, allowing a rebirth from the decay.

I'm trying to figure out what vehicle Batman and Flash are sitting in for the first image. Also, whose Batcave is that? I hope it isn't Keaton's because both of the Burton Batcave's look better than that.

I'm wondering if the suit pic that got released a month ago is something that Batman wears in the third act.

I would be alright with a different looking batcave given Burton himself established that his version doesn't reflect one particular aesthetic. This concept looks like an amalgamation between B89 (the Batmobile parking area) and TDK Rises. Let's see what they do. Things could have been changed since then, or the art just gives a general idea for concepts. What I get from these images is that Keaton's going to have a fair amount of screen time, and in the suit.

[The Laughing Fish]

Looks like they're aiming for the same basic aesthetic as the TV show.

Thrilling...

It wouldn't surprise me. Rumour has it that the studio are trying to make DC movies with cheap budgets going forward. I've never seen Shazam or BOP, but I've read people saying those films look like they were made for TV compared to Snyder's stuff, Suicide Squad or the first Wonder Woman. If that's the case then I expect the same for The Flash.

Yesterday, Mikey Sutton shared his scoop over these supposed script rewrites. I wouldn't call these spoilers because I don't personally believe them, but if you want to avoid anything Flash-related then don't watch this video.

Flash discussion starts on the 1:07:00 timestamp.

[The Joker]

Funny that you should mention Freddy vs. Jason, as I almost cited Freddy's possession of Jesse in A Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge (1985) as an example of a dead serial killer using the body of a living person to continue their crimes. Jesse's body physically transformed into Freddy's, much the way the Joker's host's would in a BB movie. But that's literally the only thing BB should copy from ANOES2.

I've got a theory that Freddy Krueger might have been an influence on Nicholson's Joker. I've never heard anyone connected with the film confirm this, but it makes sense. Batman 89 was shot in 1988, which coincided with the peak of Freddy's popularity. That was the year that A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master came out, which was the highest grossing entry in the franchise prior to FvJ. It was also the same year that the Freddy's Nightmares TV series launched and the 'Are You Ready for Freddy?' song was released by Robert Englund and the Fat Boys. Freddy was the biggest pop culture heel around the time that Batman 89 was in production. Both Freddy and Nicholson's Joker are horribly scarred flamboyant serial killers. Both are portrayed by respected actors buried beneath layers of grotesque facial prosthetics. Both murder their victims in a variety of inventive ways while laughing and spouting darkly humorous one-liners.

Maybe I'm seeing a correlation where there isn't one. But whether it was intentional or not, I do think that Nicholson's Joker to some degree reflected the popularity of Freddy. Those sickos are cut from the same bloodstained cloth.

I do see the similarities, and admittedly, the timing couldn't be more perfect. By 1988, New Line Cinema and Renny Harlin presented to the masses what is considered the "80's MTV" NOES entry in the series, and really took Freddy out of the shadows completely. To the point, where Freddy became much more comedic in presentation, along with spouting off more quips than ever before. According to Renny Harlin, by doing this, his understanding that Bob Shaye was absolutely convinced that Renny had literally destroyed New Line's golden goose, and the NOES franchise itself.

Until the opening weekend. Where "Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master" went on to become the most successful film in the entire NOES film series. In addition to this, and as Silver stated, 1988 was the year that New Line released the syndicated "Freddy's Nightmares" tv show, that just further added to Freddy Krueger becoming more and more apart of pop culture, and apparently, the most popular frequently returning cinematic villain to come out of the 1980's.

So yeah, I think the correlation between the two works to a degree. By 1989, kids and teenagers were already well primed for a disfigured villain who did dastardly deeds while comically cracking memorable one liners. So with Nicholson's Joker, the interest from that late '80's "MTV Generation" of audiences would, at the very least, be piqued by his portrayal. Then, you have the double whammy of older audiences, who might not have necessarily cared about Freddy, being interested due to Nicholson's mere association. As his career, especially at this point in his career, was prolific to say the least. I believe his scenes in the trailers leading up to Batman 1989 did absolutely everything right in displaying that his performance was something you should definitely see.

I like the Jesse Walsh-inspired idea. There's some very surreal like scenes I can think of with the Joker psychologically torturing the lad who's body that he's able to physically possess (for his own amusement of course), even when during moments where the Joker is not in full control. Thus providing that 'body horror' dynamic, though perhaps not to the NOES 2 extent... 

This is one of the most intriguing possibilities presented by his return. Burton was limited with the violence he could depict back in 1989, and yet Nicholson's Joker still managed to accumulate the highest kill count of any live action movie Joker. Imagine what he could get away with today. Particularly if the film had an R-rating. Jack's Joker murdered at least fifty people in the 1989 film.

In a modern Batman Beyond movie, he could slaughter twice that amount. It would also create an opportunity to bring back the Joker's lethal pranks, which haven't appeared in a live action movie since 1989. We never actually saw him spray anyone in the face with his acid-squirting flower in the original film, although we did see the aftermath with Alicia. In Batman Beyond, we could have a more graphic depiction of what the Joker's acid attacks would look like. We could see him electrocuting someone again, only this time we could watch the flesh burning without cutting away. I'm not say that this kind of graphic violence is necessary, or even desirable, but it is a possibility. And as you say, it might alter people's perception of how threatening Jack's Joker is.

That's one thing I love about Nicholson's Joker, is that despite his very high body count, his antics are conveyed in a humorous light. Which essentially 'masks' the horrific exploits he's seen doing throughout the film. Having the Nicholson/Napier Joker returning from the grave, and resuming a familiar modus operandi, though under a modern day lens where the envelop can be pushed even further than it could be back in 1989, is something interesting to think about. I mean, these days you could probably get away with the Joker literally electric joy buzzing someone directly in the face (kinda like he did to Alexander Luthor Junior in Infinite Crisis), where we see the aftermath of the poor guy's face literally having been just burnt off while he's on the ground withering in agony, only for the Napier possessed Joker making casual jokes about the situation, and of course at the expense of his victim.

If we were to ever be presented with this Nicholson/Napier Joker using possession to return idea for real, I like the idea of it being conveyed that this guy is very much The Joker from 1989, but with a particular added meanness to him this time. As TDK stated with; "I've been dead twice already, it's very liberating." is most assuredly a paraphrase that could be used. When you're dealing with the concept of possession, I could envision this Joker making a comment, if even passively, about being in Hell. Thus providing the huge chip on his shoulder.

[The Laughing Fish]

I've been watching this Twitch commentary analysing the leaked footage of the new concept art, as well as Ezra Miller and Andy Muschietti talking about the film.

The fact that Muschietti described the three main characters as "a solar-powered alien and two idiots" is extremely off-putting. It's bad enough they seem to follow the goofy Josstice League version of Barry, but making Keaton's Batman into a goof as well? No, I'm not tolerating that.

Check out the snippet of what Muschietti said on the 01:09:53 timestamp. I hope he is not being too literal.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1073649543

[BatmanFurst]

Yeah, idk what he means by that. Who knows if he's even talking about Batman in that statement. I doubt Keaton would've come back if they were going to turn his character into a joke. That description almost makes it sound like Guardians of the Galaxy.

[eledoremassis02]

Few things I noticed..


Keaton's suit looks different, the belt appears to have pouches (granted all of these assets are shots from returns)

Keaton's Batmobile is also now a 4 seater which means this is a newer batmobile

The talking down of Keaton's batman is worrying, topped with the fact he questioned doing it. My hope is that Keaton has control over his character (as he did in the last 2) but my worry is that without Burton it's all on his shoulders to not compromise the character. I just wonder if he agreed before getting a script (ala Val Kilmer) or there was a sudden change, or if his apprehension was similar to that of Returns (can I do it again?).

Once him questioning doing this came out, I began to think about how this might not be good. I'm ok with it because at least I have 89 and Returns because inevitably there will be pushback because this A) WB and B) This is not Synderverse. But yea, this is slowly becoming something to keep an eye on.

[BatmanFurst]

Few things I noticed..


Keaton's suit looks different, the belt appears to have pouches (granted all of these assets are shots from returns)

Keaton's Batmobile is also now a 4 seater which means this is a newer batmobile

The talking down of Keaton's batman is worrying, topped with the fact he questioned doing it. My hope is that Keaton has control over his character (as he did in the last 2) but my worry is that without Burton it's all on his shoulders to not compromise the character. I just wonder if he agreed before getting a script (ala Val Kilmer) or there was a sudden change, or if his apprehension was similar to that of Returns (can I do it again?).

Once him questioning doing this came out, I began to think about how this might not be good. I'm ok with it because at least I have 89 and Returns because inevitably there will be pushback because this A) WB and B) This is not Synderverse. But yea, this is slowly becoming something to keep an eye on.

I was thinking it might be a new vehicle.