The Flash (2022)

[Silver Nemesis]

There's my Batman!

You just know he's going to say that line at some point in the movie. Either when he first meets Barry, or perhaps if he comes face to face with Batfleck. In the latter scenario, we might even get a fight between the two Batmen. Either way, Keaton's definitely saying the 'I'm Batman" line.

But will they throw in a fan service nod to his second most famous line?

Now this, THIS, better be looked after with the upmost care. Whoever they get for the Joker, better recognize that he's not stepping into just any Joker role, but a resurrected version of Jack Nicholson's iconic Joker! Not only do I want some of Jack's classic line's being reprised, but I want the guy to study Jack's mannerisms and personal eccentricities to where his performance is literally making me think of Jack Nicholson's Joker possessing someone's body, without Jack himself actually really being there.

Tall order? Sure, but that character, THAT Joker, being brought back demands a performance that'll make Jack himself smile.

Better respect the world's first fully functioning homicidal artist!

The ideal situation would be if they could persuade Nicholson to come out of retirement and voice the Joker. Perhaps they could even use motion-cap technology to record his facial movements and then use deepfake software to map his likeness onto a younger, taller, skinnier actor. That would be terrifying.

Alternatively, if they go the Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker route, as some rumours have indicated they might, then they could just get whoever plays the adult Tim Drake (or whichever Robin they use) to imitate Nicholson's voice and mannerisms. But you're right – it would have to be a damn good actor to capture Nicholson's magic. Offhand, the only person I can think of who might be up to the task is DiCaprio, only he probably wouldn't want to do it.

Regarding the new batsuit, while I don't think we'll be seeing any major footage until the next FanDome event in October, I do think there's a very real possibility that Muschietti might follow Matt Reeves' example by releasing an imagine of Keaton in the costume, and perhaps an image of the Batmobile as well, sometime over the new few weeks. Why? Because they're going to be filming the Gotham scenes in Scotland, where press photographers are bound to snap location pics like they did with Pattinson's stunt doubles. Those kind of images usually don't present a favourable first impression of costumes, and it would be in the filmmakers' best interests to pre-empt such leaks by releasing an official high-quality publicity shot first. If I'm right about this then Muschietti, or someone else connected with the film, will be posting a picture of Keaton in the costume much sooner than most people might expect.

On the rumour front, I'm hearing talk about Bat-Keaton's next appearance after The Flash being in the Batgirl movie. If this is so, then they might introduce Babs in The Flash along with the new Supergirl. If not, they should at least plant some Easter eggs to pave the way for her debut.

[Gotham Knight]

This video contains potential spoilers for The Flash and the ramifications for the Snyderverse.

I would recommend anyone who does not want the movie spoiled to avoid this video. I found a slightly more detailed account of the plot they're discussing and it seems legit. It's simple and concise enough to be a movie IE it lacks ludicrous amounts of fan service, which is the usual tell. If it is fanfiction, it's a good sell. If you wanna know, my DMs are open.

[The Joker]

The ideal situation would be if they could persuade Nicholson to come out of retirement and voice the Joker. Perhaps they could even use motion-cap technology to record his facial movements and then use deepfake software to map his likeness onto a younger, taller, skinnier actor. That would be terrifying.

Man, I really like this idea. To further add to this proposed concept, I'm kinda 50/50 on giving the Joker milky white eyes (to a varying degree), as to further the overall effect of supernatural possession, and visually sell the notion that of a truly spectral Joker. Which would make him quite visually disturbing to look at, in any scene, and would perhaps be rather jarring when exhibiting Jack Nicholson Joker like behavior akin to his Batman 1989 scenes. Almost forcing the audience to feel conflicted for laughing at Nicholson's resurrected Joker's antics, considering what a walking horror show he looks like.

The idea basically stems from Batman Beyond Return of The Joker where certain scene(s) featuring the Joker, illustrated him with red eyes (in the shadows with the red eyes effect being particularly memorable). Which I thought made him appear just a bit more spookier than any time before, and sold that visual state of his atrocity of a resurrection.

On second thought, something like that would probably give kids nightmares, but this is where my mind goes. 

[The Dark Knight]

I found a slightly more detailed account of the plot they're discussing and it seems legit. It's simple and concise enough to be a movie IE it lacks ludicrous amounts of fan service, which is the usual tell. If it is fanfiction, it's a good sell. If you wanna know, my DMs are open.

If such a plotline was proven to be legitimate I'd be pretty happy with the outcome overall. The first section of the supposed outline contains Keaton elements I posted about previously and still want. The resolution of the story would provide a counterpoint to that first act, and in terms of an ongoing mentor role that would be necessary.

[Silver Nemesis]

Man, I really like this idea. To further add to this proposed concept, I'm kinda 50/50 on giving the Joker milky white eyes (to a varying degree), as to further the overall effect of supernatural possession, and visually sell the notion that of a truly spectral Joker. Which would make him quite visually disturbing to look at, in any scene, and would perhaps be rather jarring when exhibiting Jack Nicholson Joker like behavior akin to his Batman 1989 scenes. Almost forcing the audience to feel conflicted for laughing at Nicholson's resurrected Joker's antics, considering what a walking horror show he looks like.

The idea basically stems from Batman Beyond Return of The Joker where certain scene(s) featuring the Joker, illustrated him with red eyes (in the shadows with the red eyes effect being particularly memorable). Which I thought made him appear just a bit more spookier than any time before, and sold that visual state of his atrocity of a resurrection.

On second thought, something like that would probably give kids nightmares, but this is where my mind goes. 

The creepier the better! And I agree that the possession should be supernatural. The whole thing about the microchip somehow physically and mentally transforming Drake into the Joker never made much sense to me in the original film, especially since the technology he used to do it was meant to have been created in the present day. In the case of the Burtonverse, they should go full Exorcist and have Jack Napier's ghost flat out possess someone. Kind of like Killer Bob in Twin Peaks.

The possessed party wouldn't realise what was happening to him. He'd just black out every now and then, and afterwards would have no recollection of what he'd been up to. But during those blackouts Napier's spirit would take control, and the host's physical appearance would be transformed accordingly. We've seen more realistic versions of the Joker with Ledger and Phoenix, so now let's see a fully demonic supernatural version conjured from the grave of Nicholson's iteration.

Seriously, a live action remake of Return of the Joker has the potential to be one of the best Batman movies ever. The biggest obstacle in the past would have been getting Keaton on board, but now he's back WB can make it happen.

[The Joker]

The creepier the better! And I agree that the possession should be supernatural. The whole thing about the microchip somehow physically and mentally transforming Drake into the Joker never made much sense to me in the original film, especially since the technology he used to do it was meant to have been created in the present day. In the case of the Burtonverse, they should go full Exorcist and have Jack Napier's ghost flat out possess someone. Kind of like Killer Bob in Twin Peaks.

Indeed! Yeah, I would expect just how Nicholson's Joker returns to vary a bit from the explanation we got in BBROTJ, which may be for the better to be perfectly honest. My first thought would be that his return is the result of something that perhaps the Jokerz gang intentionally, or inadvertently do, but admittedly that's inspired from the idea of a Freddy Krueger cult gang that was very nearly in the "Freddy vs Jason" movie.

The possessed party wouldn't realise what was happening to him. He'd just black out every now and then, and afterwards would have no recollection of what he'd been up to. But during those blackouts Napier's spirit would take control, and the host's physical appearance would be transformed accordingly. We've seen more realistic versions of the Joker with Ledger and Phoenix, so now let's see a fully demonic supernatural version conjured from the grave of Nicholson's iteration.

Seriously, a live action remake of Return of the Joker has the potential to be one of the best Batman movies ever. The biggest obstacle in the past would have been getting Keaton on board, but now he's back WB can make it happen.

That's so true. The overall aesthetic of a supernatural Nicholson/Napier Joker would greatly contrast him with the more 'realistic' interpretations of Ledger and Phoenix. I would also imagine that given a resurrected Napier Joker would be a bit more "edgy" than before, naturally, some people's perception of him would change. Thus making Nicholson's Joker a rather unique and multifaceted incarnation of the character in live action for sure.

[The Dark Knight]

What appealed to me with Batman Beyond was the fact it was a far flung future so different from the BTAS world we had become accustomed to. Apart from an older Michael Keaton, I imagine a Beyond inspired movie would more or less aesthetically resemble the current day, and would be set in the current day. What type of societal status quo would they be willing to depict?

Dystopian literature interests me greatly in how it accurately mirrors the modern world. From my perspective, rather than being one individual book, the societal structure of today is an amalgamation of Animal Farm, 1984 and Brave New World. We have pigs at the top who change the rules to their liking. These pigs use surveillance, erase/alter history, foster snitch culture and assign their opinions onto the masses from birth, which mostly arises from a test tube.

The finishing touch is a populace doped with happiness drug Soma, with people smiling in their prison cell. Soma primarily takes the form of the internet and social media in the current age. It's ironic that the more readily available information is, the harder it is to find truth. Most people are so distracted to even begin looking, anyway. The dystopian literature of yesteryear that frightened readers is already here, and here to stay. So where do you go to from there?

[Silver Nemesis]

Indeed! Yeah, I would expect just how Nicholson's Joker returns to vary a bit from the explanation we got in BBROTJ, which may be for the better to be perfectly honest. My first thought would be that his return is the result of something that perhaps the Jokerz gang intentionally, or inadvertently do, but admittedly that's inspired from the idea of a Freddy Krueger cult gang that was very nearly in the "Freddy vs Jason" movie.

Funny that you should mention Freddy vs. Jason, as I almost cited Freddy's possession of Jesse in A Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge (1985) as an example of a dead serial killer using the body of a living person to continue their crimes. Jesse's body physically transformed into Freddy's, much the way the Joker's host's would in a BB movie. But that's literally the only thing BB should copy from ANOES2.

I've got a theory that Freddy Krueger might have been an influence on Nicholson's Joker. I've never heard anyone connected with the film confirm this, but it makes sense. Batman 89 was shot in 1988, which coincided with the peak of Freddy's popularity. That was the year that A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master came out, which was the highest grossing entry in the franchise prior to FvJ. It was also the same year that the Freddy's Nightmares TV series launched and the 'Are You Ready for Freddy?' song was released by Robert Englund and the Fat Boys. Freddy was the biggest pop culture heel around the time that Batman 89 was in production. Both Freddy and Nicholson's Joker are horribly scarred flamboyant serial killers. Both are portrayed by respected actors buried beneath layers of grotesque facial prosthetics. Both murder their victims in a variety of inventive ways while laughing and spouting darkly humorous one-liners.

Maybe I'm seeing a correlation where there isn't one. But whether it was intentional or not, I do think that Nicholson's Joker to some degree reflected the popularity of Freddy. Those sickos are cut from the same bloodstained cloth.

I would also imagine that given a resurrected Napier Joker would be a bit more "edgy" than before, naturally, some people's perception of him would change.

This is one of the most intriguing possibilities presented by his return. Burton was limited with the violence he could depict back in 1989, and yet Nicholson's Joker still managed to accumulate the highest kill count of any live action movie Joker. Imagine what he could get away with today. Particularly if the film had an R-rating. Jack's Joker murdered at least fifty people in the 1989 film.

In a modern Batman Beyond movie, he could slaughter twice that amount. It would also create an opportunity to bring back the Joker's lethal pranks, which haven't appeared in a live action movie since 1989. We never actually saw him spray anyone in the face with his acid-squirting flower in the original film, although we did see the aftermath with Alicia. In Batman Beyond, we could have a more graphic depiction of what the Joker's acid attacks would look like. We could see him electrocuting someone again, only this time we could watch the flesh burning without cutting away. I'm not say that this kind of graphic violence is necessary, or even desirable, but it is a possibility. And as you say, it might alter people's perception of how threatening Jack's Joker is.

What appealed to me with Batman Beyond was the fact it was a far flung future so different from the BTAS world we had become accustomed to. Apart from an older Michael Keaton, I imagine a Beyond inspired movie would more or less aesthetically resemble the current day, and would be set in the current day. What type of societal status quo would they be willing to depict?

Dystopian literature interests me greatly in how it accurately mirrors the modern world. From my perspective, rather than being one individual book, the societal structure of today is an amalgamation of Animal Farm, 1984 and Brave New World. We have pigs at the top who change the rules to their liking. These pigs use surveillance, erase/alter history, foster snitch culture and assign their opinions onto the masses from birth, which mostly arises from a test tube.

The finishing touch is a populace doped with happiness drug Soma, with people smiling in their prison cell. Soma primarily takes the form of the internet and social media in the current age. It's ironic that the more readily available information is, the harder it is to find truth. Most people are so distracted to even begin looking, anyway. The dystopian literature of yesteryear that frightened readers is already here, and here to stay. So where do you go to from there?

Those are all excellent novels that are still deeply relevant to the modern world. Here are two more works of dystopian literature that I'd highly recommend to anyone who hasn't read them yet.

Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury. Bradbury's one of my all-time favourite writers, and this is his finest novel. It's depiction of authoritarianism, literary censorship and the prevailing influence of mass media in shaping the way people think was strikingly prophetic. We're constantly hearing reports of how classic works of literature are being 'cancelled' and withdrawn from circulation because they contain language or ideas that certain groups find unacceptable, and Bradbury was warning us of this over half a century ago. He also stated that his novel could be seen as a critique of political correctness, which is again something that's painfully relevant to where western society's heading right now.

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess. This novel examines themes of free will, good and evil, totalitarianism and the potentially dehumanising effects of behavioural conditioning. Humans are the only creatures on the planet that are capable of contemplating the moral implications of our behaviour, as opposed to acting on pure animal instinct. If you take away a person's freedom to make morally-informed decisions, are they still human? Is there any real merit in compelled virtue if the subject has no choice in the matter? Again, it's not hard to see how these questions are pertinent in an age where many people are signalling 'virtues' to placate an authoritarian collective that refuses to tolerate alternative viewpoints and tries to control what we think by restricting what we can say.

I'd love to see a Batman Beyond film that was equally unsparing in its reflection of society's failings. Not just an entertaining popcorn flick, but a serious science fiction film exploring dystopian themes in a mature and sophisticated manner. Something like that would have fit in neatly with Todd Phillips' DC Black label. Unfortunately it's hard to imagine a modern Hollywood studio having the guts to criticise a mass media of which its own industry is a central component. Even the comic industry wouldn't do that now. Back in the eighties, Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns presented readers with a dystopian tale that reflected the anxieties of Cold War America. Nowadays, the only time DC gets political is to get woke.

Imagine a dark R-rated Batman Beyond movie set ten or twenty years in the future. Speech is tightly regulated, law enforcement has been cripplingly defunded, and both inflation and crime are skyrocketing like never before. 'Neo Gotham' could be a hollow political slogan tied to a proposed urban redevelopment campaign, similar to 'Delta City' in the RoboCop films. Keaton's Bruce Wayne, now fully retired from both his public and crime fighting lives, is observing this societal decay from the solitude of stately Wayne Manor as he slowly drinks himself to death. He's haunted by memories of the past, and in particular by nightmares of Jack Napier. Then one night a teenager named Terry McGinnis breaks into his home and stumbles across the Batcave. Soon after, the media begins reporting on new 'bat sightings', as well as a new wave of crimes that bear an uncanny resemblance to the Joker killings of fifty years previous. Victims are being found across the city with grotesque smiles on their faces. Is it the work of a copycat killer, or has Batman's nemesis somehow returned from beyond the grave? Either way, Bruce has little time to prepare his new protégé for the monumental battle that's about to begin.

I would happily pay an extortionate ticket price to see that film.

[Gotham Knight]

big fat leak. This are concepts that were leaked in a video that was ripped down. The images are rapidly getting ripped down as well. Get them while you can.

[Gotham Knight]

More.