The Flash (2022)

[Silver Nemesis]

Then you have to consider who that student would be. It's Woke World, so you bet they're going to be female and of color. They have those boxes ticked already. I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to think this way. I say brace yourself for the possibility.

Sad state of affairs. But it is true that we're now in a world where fans need to weigh their desire to see certain previously unseen comic book concepts against the near certainty that if it ever happens, it'll be a woke form.

Sure, I want to see a live action Batman Beyond. But I'm not sure I need an alphabet soup version of Terry lecturing 90+ year old Bruce on his "privilege" or whatever.

This is a sobering point. There are many books and comics I'd love to see adapted into films or TV shows, but I'd prefer to wait a little longer for it to happen than see them mishandled in the current climate of extreme wokeism. I say wait because I don't believe the era of woke entertainment media can continue indefinitely. It simply isn't intellectually or economically tenable and will have to end eventually, or at the very least adapt into a more subtle form than it presently takes.

However, in the case of Keaton starring in a Batman Beyond movie waiting might not be an option. He's already 70. I sincerely hope he has many more years of good health ahead of him, but he might choose to spend those years in retirement. Or if he does continue working, he might decide to cut back on blockbuster roles. I feel Batman Beyond, if it's going to happen with Keaton, needs to happen fairly soon.

Alas, that does mean the project risks being filtered through the corrupting lens of woke ideology. We'll just have to hope the damage is minimal.

[The Laughing Fish]

Sad state of affairs. But it is true that we're now in a world where fans need to weigh their desire to see certain previously unseen comic book concepts against the near certainty that if it ever happens, it'll be a woke form.

Sure, I want to see a live action Batman Beyond. But I'm not sure I need an alphabet soup version of Terry lecturing 90+ year old Bruce on his "privilege" or whatever.

I'm much more wary about The Flash before thinking anything about a potential Batman Beyond project. If we're talking strictly about the subject of woke, who is to say Supergirl won't be propped up at the expense of Keaton's Batman, or Miller's Flash for that matter? The DC FanDome sneak peak gave me an impression Keaton's Batman may have retired for a lengthy period of time, and perhaps Barry and co encouraged him to get back out there. The retirement trope is very cliche for these kind of movies, but if that's the approach they're taking then I hope they don't give Keaton the Jake Skywalker treatment.

But what worries me about The Flash the most is the studio itself. Not only have we heard conflicting rumours about Snyderverse getting erased or being left alone, Warner has caused a lot of controversy this whole year that soured the perception of this movie. Ray Fisher's firing from the film would've resulted in rewrites, and it seemed both Andy and Barbara Muschietti wanted him to have a crucial role in the film. That alone proves the movie has been compromised, and the assholes in charge of the studio has antagonised the Snyderverse fanbase throughout the whole year with characters and scenes getting deleted in ZSJL, which does nothing but harm the whole multiverse PR talk the studio has been promoting since 2020.

I've been following the mood surrounding The Flash on social media, it ranges from skepticism to downright contempt. Some even derisively call it "The Flush". Tweets like this, which got over 4k likes, is very commonplace:

BREAKING: 'THE FLASH' movie's target audience non-existent.

https://twitter.com/LeCinephiles/status/1471619413510017030

You might say the vast majority of these are MCU Spider-Man fanboys are trolling with these likes because of NWH's success, but I don't think that's the case. As I said, Warner has undone a goodwill with their shenanigans this past year, to the point the perception of this film is at an all time low. Unless the Discovery merger fixes whatever negative aspects with this film with reshoots and the restructure tries to fix this negative PR, The Flash could be seen as the antithesis of what NWH is hyped up to be. If it alienates ALL DC fans, including both Snyderverse and Burtonverse, it will be devastating to the DC brand as a whole. I really don't think I'm being hyperbolic here, the worst case scenario could be permanently damaging.

[thecolorsblend]

Hope I didn't bring the room down. Yes, wokeness has destroyed a lot of my affection for my old favorite properties. These days, I get a lot more energy and excitement from horror movies, horror comics and so forth. The superhero properties that used to be the bread and butter of my fandom have lost a lot of their luster.

But at the same time, there's always a chance that a hypothetical adaptation of Batman Beyond will respect the entire Beyond concept and do right by the fans. There is some justification in hanging on to hope.

[The Joker]

However, in the case of Keaton starring in a Batman Beyond movie waiting might not be an option. He's already 70. I sincerely hope he has many more years of good health ahead of him, but he might choose to spend those years in retirement. Or if he does continue working, he might decide to cut back on blockbuster roles. I feel Batman Beyond, if it's going to happen with Keaton, needs to happen fairly soon.

Indeed. With Keaton back on board as Batman, a Batman Beyond movie really needs to be put on the fast track fairly soon. Given the fast and loose nature of the DCEU continuity these days, I'm a whole lot less interested in how a Batman Beyond movie "fits" with whatever you want to call DCEU continuity following The Flash movie, and more intrigued by a more focused amalgamation of the Batman Beyond concept, and the Burtonverse continuity. Self contained, and not the least bit concerned with the "shared universe" gimmick. Hell, it would be so easy for Warners to sell it as just a different timeline/universe. One where the Burtonverse was left pristine and unaffected by Miller's Flash, and being retconned into the DCEU or whatever.

By now audiences can grasp this, but I agree, it needs to be in the cards relatively soon.

[The Laughing Fish]

If this press release is to be believed, Keaton is in Batgirl.



If this is true, it's is the most MORONIC news I've read in a while. The Burtonverse is now going to get compromised as well as the Snyderverse. What a f***ing joke. Garbage studio. I wouldn't be surprised if this reduces the prospects of Batman Beyond too.

Meanwhile, it seems Michael Shannon and Antje Traue are coming back.

[Silver Nemesis]

Indeed. With Keaton back on board as Batman, a Batman Beyond movie really needs to be put on the fast track fairly soon. Given the fast and loose nature of the DCEU continuity these days, I'm a whole lot less interested in how a Batman Beyond movie "fits" with whatever you want to call DCEU continuity following The Flash movie, and more intrigued by a more focused amalgamation of the Batman Beyond concept, and the Burtonverse continuity. Self contained, and not the least bit concerned with the "shared universe" gimmick. Hell, it would be so easy for Warners to sell it as just a different timeline/universe. One where the Burtonverse was left pristine and unaffected by Miller's Flash, and being retconned into the DCEU or whatever.

I don't think they necessarily need to specify whether Batman Beyond takes place in the original Burtonverse or DCEU continuities. They just need a Neo-Gotham that reflects the dieselpunk/Art Deco/Gothic/German Expressionist fusion of the classic Burton version, only projected a further half a century into the future. Something like this.

Let the viewers decide for themselves whether this is part of the original Earth-89 continuity or that of the post-Flash DCEU. Ideally it would be better if it was the Earth-89 timeline. That way they could include flashbacks depicting Jack's Joker. But even if the studio wants to play it ambiguous, they could just mention that there was a Joker, whose real name was Jack Napier, and he was killed a long time ago by Batman. That's all you need to set up Return of the Joker, and it would be consistent with the events of the 1989 film.

The only other area where they might have to commit to DCEU continuity is with Barbara Gordon, but they could always get around that by leaving her out. Have Ellen Yindel take her place as police commissioner. Problem solved.

As far as wokeness, diversity and inclusiveness goes, that could be a problem. But the cast of the original animated series might already be sufficiently diverse to tick the right boxes. Maxine Gibson was black, and Dana Tan was Asian. I think Xolo Maridueña from Cobra Kai would have made a pretty good Terry, if he hadn't already been cast as the title character in the upcoming Blue Beetle movie.

I'd ditch the thing about him being cloned from Bruce. That's one complication the movie doesn't need.

[eledoremassis02]

I mean, Affleck sounds like he's pretty done and Keaton seems to really want to do the role again, and if he's happy with how his portions of Flash turned out (the same man who was not feeling Forever) then there is that.

Plus I hate to say it (and it's somthing I had to accept). If it sucks, it sucks. I still have 89 and Returns to enjoy and they (as of this post) the 89/returns era was decades before present day Batman so it's not directly touching those movies (if at all).

At the end of the day if I'm not feeling the adverting, I'll not see the movie since it seems like Keaton might not be in it much, I'll just not see it in theatres and just rent it. I don't feel obligated to watch something because I'm being dangled with Nostalgia.

As far as the leaks, I'm very skeptical. I mean, there was ALOT of wrong information about Zack Snyders Justice League that was wrong from people who claimed to have seen it.

The sad thing is, there was almost almost no rection to Keaton showing up in the trailer, same can not be said about the new Spider-man movie. I'll be suprised if I see that kind of reaction in the Flash and thats a little depressing.

Warners has been very hit or miss so for me there's a 50% chance if might be good or bad. WB's also not the only studio thats shoves their ideas into films. It's the same reason John Favreau left Iron Man 3 and one reason why I refuse to watch Iron Man and put me in the wrong footing into the MCU (which has it's on complains of Directors not being allowed to express their vision in sacrifice for the corporate agenda). They just happen to make films most people like.

Bottom line, If I see this film, its mostly for Batman. And if it has Keatons seal of apporval then that's enough for me right now. If it sucks, it's a bitter pill to swollow but life goes on.

[Gotham Knight]

My basic plot theory is this:

Batman (Ben Affleck) is killed. This affects Barry to such a degree that it inspires him to alter the timeline, perhaps because Barry is involved in the death somehow and thinks that unmaking the Flash would be better for all.

The timeline is altered, but a butterfly effect occurs. Barry finds that General Zod's invasion of Earth was successful. He tries to alter it and things get worse, maybe even the time line itself begins to crumble.

He flees the universe, and searches for one that has a living Nora Allen. He finds Earth-89.

Earth-89 is kinda dystopian and Barry tries to supplant himself into it by creating his own justice league.

The result is an end of the world disaster. To salvage it all, he saves both universes by using his powers to merge them together. The DCEU is now an amalgam of both worlds. Nothing is quite the same.

Batman is Keaton, but the Burton Batman died trying to save his own world and this Batman is a rebirth that may borrow some, but not all of the original history.

[Silver Nemesis]

I think many of those plot predictions will prove accurate, Gotham Knight. I'm expecting something fairly similar to your outline.

Lots of sites are now reporting that Keaton has officially signed on. That means that even if Batgirl is his final Batman film – and I don't think it will be – then he'll have played the Dark Knight in more movies than Christian Bale, and the same number of films as Chris Reeve did as Superman. I'm hoping he'll make at least two more Batman movies after this: obviously one has to be Batman Beyond; the other would ideally be a Justice League film set between Batgirl and BB in which he dons Kingdom Come-style armour, interacts with the JLA and does battle against a major DC universe threat. Perhaps even a straight-up Kingdom Come adaptation. That way we'd get a total of six Keaton Batman movies divided across two trilogies:

•   The solo/Burtonverse trilogy: Batman '89, Batman Returns, Batman Beyond
•   The DCEU trilogy: The Flash, Batgirl, JLA: Kingdom Come

I'd be happy with that hexalogy. Then he'd have made the same number of Batman films as Connery did Bond (not counting the unofficial Never Say Never Again). If he could voice Batman in some animated tie-ins or videogames too, then that would be a nice bonus.

Keaton's first run as Batman ended in 1994 when it was announced he wouldn't be returning for Batman Forever. Now the second era of the Keaton Batman is just about to begin.

But to echo the caution that others have already expressed – if they screw these movies up then we can always discount them and fall back on the original two Burton films. If they get the new movies right, we'll be their biggest supporters anywhere on the internet. But if they mess them up, then we'll be their most vocal critics.

[Gotham Knight]

I think many of those plot predictions will prove accurate, Gotham Knight. I'm expecting something fairly similar to your outline.

Lots of sites are now reporting that Keaton has officially signed on. That means that even if Batgirl is his final Batman film – and I don't think it will be – then he'll have played the Dark Knight in more movies than Christian Bale, and the same number of films as Chris Reeve did as Superman. I'm hoping he'll make at least two more Batman movies after this: obviously one has to be Batman Beyond; the other would ideally be a Justice League film set between Batgirl and BB in which he dons Kingdom Come-style armour, interacts with the JLA and does battle against a major DC universe threat. Perhaps even a straight-up Kingdom Come adaptation. That way we'd get a total of six Keaton Batman movies divided across two trilogies:

•   The solo/Burtonverse trilogy: Batman '89, Batman Returns, Batman Beyond
•   The DCEU trilogy: The Flash, Batgirl, JLA: Kingdom Come

I'd be happy with that hexalogy. Then he'd have made the same number of Batman films as Connery did Bond (not counting the unofficial Never Say Never Again). If he could voice Batman in some animated tie-ins or videogames too, then that would be a nice bonus.

Keaton's first run as Batman ended in 1994 when it was announced he wouldn't be returning for Batman Forever. Now the second era of the Keaton Batman is just about to begin.

But to echo the caution that others have already expressed – if they screw these movies up then we can always discount them and fall back on the original two Burton films. If they get the new movies right, we'll be their biggest supporters anywhere on the internet. But if they mess them up, then we'll be their most vocal critics.

Another idea I had was that it is possible that Zod exists in the 89 universe and it is in fact that universe that gets annihilated by him and causes Batman to make the sacrifice.

Consider this: What if in his attempt to make his own Justice League, Barry sets his team out out to save Supergirl from captivity as she will no doubt be the centerpiece, but in doing so he somehow awakens Earth-89's Zod.