The Flash (2022)

[thecolorsblend]

Yeah, idk what he means by that. Who knows if he's even talking about Batman in that statement. I doubt Keaton would've come back if they were going to turn his character into a joke. That description almost makes it sound like Guardians of the Galaxy.

This. Keaton's the same guy who turned down, like, $10 million to do BF. Plus, Keaton seems to be the only bona fide "star" in the movie. Everyone else is a second-stringer, let's be realistic. My assumption is that everything on the set will be "Right away, Mr. Keaton". Let's face it, you can afford to tick off Ezra Miller. But Keaton? No way. There's just no way he hasn't asserted dominance by now.

[Gotham Knight]

I'm banking on it all just be a bit of a language barrier for Andy. Maybe idiot wasn't the right word for what he was trying to view in an amusing light, It is possible that Flash and Batman have kind of buddy chemistry as a duo. Remember, Keaton has natural comedy talents, some that would play with Miller's Flash that, while satisfying Batman as a bad ass straight man. Well, here's hoping anyway. 

[Gotham Knight]

I'm banking on it all just be a bit of a language barrier for Andy. Maybe idiot wasn't the right word for what he was trying to view in an amusing light, It is possible that Flash and Batman have kind of buddy chemistry as a duo. Remember, Keaton has natural comedy talents, some that would play with Miller's Flash that, while satisfying Batman as a bad ass straight man. Well, here's hoping anyway. 

Or he's describing how Supergirl sees them. That might be her attitude.

[eledoremassis02]

That's a good point! lol I thought the cockpit looked a little longer (the back part) in the concept art.

Here is the full flash in the (?) Batmobile. I also noticed that the "Spoiler Alert" sign is covering someone up, so I wonder who that is (unless this was pre Supergirl leak).

Also, this picture of Batman has the 89 Logo. Considering there were reports that they were filming past stuff with Batman in Gotham, makes me wonder if we'll see him interact with old and younger Batman (De-aged Keaton). There could be a ripple effect (ala Days of Future past) and this would allow Joker and such to be alive and separate the Schumacher Universe (but it still being "cannon" pre-flash). Of course it's all overthinking

This is also another Returns manipulated.

[The Dark Knight]

I'm banking on it all just be a bit of a language barrier for Andy. Maybe idiot wasn't the right word for what he was trying to view in an amusing light, It is possible that Flash and Batman have kind of buddy chemistry as a duo. Remember, Keaton has natural comedy talents, some that would play with Miller's Flash that, while satisfying Batman as a bad ass straight man. Well, here's hoping anyway. 

Or he's describing how Supergirl sees them. That might be her attitude.

That's what first crossed my mind. When Andy says idiots he has a comical tone in his voice. On a base level I'd say it's elevating the superpowered being above the human (as experienced as he may be) and the quipping kid who is still learning to control his abilities. It's strongly possible Keatonman restores Barry's powers and keeps proving his worth, regardless of any possible scepticism. Barry may be the first meta human he's ever encountered. This type of thing is new for him but he's adapting fast. Keaton's protective of the character - he's not agreeing to a script he doesn't like.

[The Joker]

Or he's describing how Supergirl sees them. That might be her attitude.

Well, if anything, hopefully this possible flawed perception that this Supergirl might have is simply only initially (and soon after proved incredibly wrong), and due to her, perhaps, self sense of superiority. I'd rather that than a continued narrative of this Supergirl being exhibited as the solely strong empowered woman of the group, with Flash being constantly goofy, and Keaton's Batman being conveyed as over-the-hill.

That ain't gonna cut it. However, Keaton signing on to a film that would put his Batman under that light seems incredibly suspect, and hopefully that's the case. Especially so if the "plan" is to continue on with Keaton's Batman as a mentor to a new Batgirl, and of course the long-proposed live action "Batman Beyond" movie.

[eledoremassis02]

Possibly the two idiots thing isn't aimed at flash and Batman but perhaps Flash and someone else? The spoiler sign is covering a character and it doesn't (?) appear to be supergirl? Cyborg was originally supposed to be in this


I'm assuming this is cyborg in this shot. I assume they're giving his dialogue to Keaton and Affleck but perhaps they're replacing him with (maybe) Robin or Nightwing or another DC character?

[The Laughing Fish]

The talking down of Keaton's batman is worrying, topped with the fact he questioned doing it. My hope is that Keaton has control over his character (as he did in the last 2) but my worry is that without Burton it's all on his shoulders to not compromise the character. I just wonder if he agreed before getting a script (ala Val Kilmer) or there was a sudden change, or if his apprehension was similar to that of Returns (can I do it again?).

To be fair, he did mention the pandemic was the reason for his hesitation in that Deadline interview back in March.

Like you, I'm not too confident about this film because of the shenanigans going on at the studio. But at the very least, Keaton's Batman should not be screwed over. I hope that Keaton is still protective over his character and will stamp his authority against anything that would undermine him. The worst that could happen is if he no longer cares and phones in his performance for the sake of the paycheck and allows the studio to screw his character over.

On the other hand, can Keaton push back against this studio the way it's currently run? People need to remember that the Justice League situation wasn't an anomaly, even if you disregard the trouble going on behind the scenes. Suicide Squad was the first DC film that got screwed over with characters like Leto's Joker coming off worse than what they were originally conceived. If this studio doesn't care about keeping the likes of Affleck and Leto happy then who is to say they are eager to satisfy Keaton's demands? Just because Geoff Johns doesn't have the power he used to doesn't mean the studio doesn't want to chase after that MCU formula at any cost. Not to mention the culprits behind the destruction of the DCEU are still running the studio.

With Warner, anything negative is possible.

I'm assuming this is cyborg in this shot. I assume they're giving his dialogue to Keaton and Affleck but perhaps they're replacing him with (maybe) Robin or Nightwing or another DC character?

What if it's someone from the Arrowverse? There have been rumours of CW characters would appear in The Flash. What are the odds whoever with the caution covering his face is Grant Gustin's Barry Allen? Or Tom Cavanagh's Harrison Wells?

[eledoremassis02]

The talking down of Keaton's batman is worrying, topped with the fact he questioned doing it. My hope is that Keaton has control over his character (as he did in the last 2) but my worry is that without Burton it's all on his shoulders to not compromise the character. I just wonder if he agreed before getting a script (ala Val Kilmer) or there was a sudden change, or if his apprehension was similar to that of Returns (can I do it again?).

To be fair, he did mention the pandemic was the reason for his hesitation in that Deadline interview back in March.

Like you, I'm not too confident about this film because of the shenanigans going on at the studio. But at the very least, Keaton's Batman should not be screwed over. I hope that Keaton is still protective over his character and will stamp his authority against anything that would undermine him. The worst that could happen is if he no longer cares and phones in his performance for the sake of the paycheck and allows the studio to screw his character over.

On the other hand, can Keaton push back against this studio the way it's currently run? People need to remember that the Justice League situation wasn't an anomaly, even if you disregard the trouble going on behind the scenes. Suicide Squad was the first DC film that got screwed over with characters like Leto's Joker coming off worse than what they were originally conceived. If this studio doesn't care about keeping the likes of Affleck and Leto happy then who is to say they are eager to satisfy Keaton's demands? Just because Geoff Johns doesn't have the power he used to doesn't mean the studio doesn't want to chase after that MCU formula at any cost. Not to mention the culprits behind the destruction of the DCEU are still running the studio.

With Warner, anything negative is possible.

I'm assuming this is cyborg in this shot. I assume they're giving his dialogue to Keaton and Affleck but perhaps they're replacing him with (maybe) Robin or Nightwing or another DC character?

What if it's someone from the Arrowverse? There have been rumours of CW characters would appear in The Flash. What are the odds whoever with the caution covering his face is Grant Gustin's Barry Allen? Or Tom Cavanagh's Harrison Wells?

My first reaction to the covid thing was that it was the excuse in a similar fashion as to how his paycheck was in Forever because he mentioned having to read the final draft (which is what got me worried that he had little faith with how the script turned out)
"I called them and said, I have to be honest with you. I can't look at anything right now. I'm so deep into this thing I'm doing. Also, I'm prepping a thing I'm producing and getting ready to do down the road in the fall that I'll be in, and I feel responsible to that. So, yeah, there is that. I'm not being cute or coy. If I talked about it, I'll be just bulls***ting you. I don't really know. I have to look at the last draft." and that was back in March.

Covid was on massive decline in the UK when he was asked and he mentioned how he was staying as up to date as he could (given how politically aware his instagram is, I would not doubt it) and I'm sure he got Vaccinated as fast as he could but it still could see it being a major concern so I won't judge him over wanting to stay safe and healthy.


This was also before Cyborg was officially out (granted he just worse a mo-cap suit so it's not like they lost a lot making a few suits but this production is a bit of a mess (though not the worst by fat). But I do have my worries. I feel like Keaton's been on a nostalgic Batman run since the Robocop reboot and loved that people remember him for it, and with the Beatlejuice sequel falling apart (the one part he said he'd like to revisit the most but it'd have to be done right) I figured he's just like "Eh, Batman the next best thing so why not". The fact he's doing it without Burton (another thing he said that's the only way he'd do it) is what makes me believe he may have a considerable amount of control over the character.

[Silver Nemesis]

"I've been dead twice already, it's very liberating."

That is a killer pitch. As I said previously, "where do you go to from there?" when the world is already resembling dystopian fiction of yesteryear. This is the answer. Showing the further decay of the choices that led us to 2021 in the first place. A totally lawless sh!thole where statues are built to worship martyred criminals. Ironically, the Joker may not be wrong in his quest to destroy Gotham. Fahrenheit 451 ends with the city destroyed via nuclear weapons, allowing a rebirth from the decay.

I don't want to break the site rules on political discussion, but I do think there's tremendous scope for satire in a Batman Beyond movie. You could have the media retroactively condemning Batman as a fascist agent of the police state and claiming that his enemies were victims. For example:

GOTHAM NEWS ANCHOR: "The Red Triangle organisation's protests were fiery but mostly peaceful, and what the Batman did to them thirty years ago was police brutality without the dubious oversight or accountability that the GCPD has continually failed to uphold. The late Commissioner James Gordon's complicity in the Batman's fascist campaign of violence is the primary reason protestors are now campaigning to have his memorial plaque removed from police headquarters. His daughter Barbara, the present police commissioner, declined to comment on the recent motion. In related news, the Anti-Defamation League has formally classified the bat-emblem as a hate symbol..."

But again, I don't think any studio would have the guts to do this nowadays.

I do see the similarities, and admittedly, the timing couldn't be more perfect. By 1988, New Line Cinema and Renny Harlin presented to the masses what is considered the "80's MTV" NOES entry in the series, and really took Freddy out of the shadows completely. To the point, where Freddy became much more comedic in presentation, along with spouting off more quips than ever before. According to Renny Harlin, by doing this, his understanding that Bob Shaye was absolutely convinced that Renny had literally destroyed New Line's golden goose, and the NOES franchise itself.

Until the opening weekend. Where "Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master" went on to become the most successful film in the entire NOES film series. In addition to this, and as Silver stated, 1988 was the year that New Line released the syndicated "Freddy's Nightmares" tv show, that just further added to Freddy Krueger becoming more and more apart of pop culture, and apparently, the most popular frequently returning cinematic villain to come out of the 1980's.

So yeah, I think the correlation between the two works to a degree. By 1989, kids and teenagers were already well primed for a disfigured villain who did dastardly deeds while comically cracking memorable one liners. So with Nicholson's Joker, the interest from that late '80's "MTV Generation" of audiences would, at the very least, be piqued by his portrayal. Then, you have the double whammy of older audiences, who might not have necessarily cared about Freddy, being interested due to Nicholson's mere association. As his career, especially at this point in his career, was prolific to say the least. I believe his scenes in the trailers leading up to Batman 1989 did absolutely everything right in displaying that his performance was something you should definitely see.

I like the Jesse Walsh-inspired idea. There's some very surreal like scenes I can think of with the Joker psychologically torturing the lad who's body that he's able to physically possess (for his own amusement of course), even when during moments where the Joker is not in full control. Thus providing that 'body horror' dynamic, though perhaps not to the NOES 2 extent... 

I'm sorry to go off topic, but A Nightmare on Elm Street is another one of those subjects that should get its own thread at some point. It's my favourite of the classic eighties slasher movie franchises, and The Dream Master is my second favourite entry in the series after The Dream Warriors. Admittedly it is formulaic – which is inevitable with any fourquel – but the formula is executed with creativity, energy and panache. Lisa Wilcox is great as Alice, a genuinely sympathetic 'final girl' who has a proper character arc and a likeable personality. Physically, she somewhat resembled a young Gillian Anderson and possessed an athleticism that I find very attractive.

With most slasher movies we're not given much reason to care about the victims, but I always feel bad for the people Freddy kills. The scene where Alice daydreams about her brother Rick climbing out of his coffin is actually quite sad and atypical of the genre. Slasher films rarely humanise the victims to that extent or depict the grief of their loved ones, but the ANOES series wasn't afraid to go there (Rick's dad also makes a mournful reference to him in Part 5 when he tells Alice that he hopes her baby will be a boy, as it will "Be nice to have a boy playing in the house again"). The victims all have individual personalities that are in some way reflected in the manner of their death. Granted, those personalities became increasingly stereotypical and two-dimensional as the series progressed, but that's still more characterisation than you'd get from any Friday the 13th flick.

I always liked that description of The Dream Master as the 'MTV nightmare'. It primarily alludes to the energetic camera movements and editing techniques, but it also reflects the prominent use of music throughout the film. A Nightmare on Elm Street 4 has one of the best horror soundtracks of the eighties.

Of course the movie's not perfect. I never liked that scene where Freddy's claw marks randomly appear across the lockers in the school hallway. Sure, it's a nod to the audience that he's about to return, but within the context of the story it makes absolutely no sense. It's not happening in a dream and none of the characters are seeing it, so why is it there? The plot point about the dog resurrecting Freddy is silly and poorly thought out, and Rick's death scene is disappointing, although I understand that this was due to the budget running out. But overall I think it's an underrated movie. It's well paced, exciting, has a likeable protagonist, a great soundtrack and some inventive set pieces (Robert Englund cites the time loop sequence as his favourite moment from the entire franchise).

It's also well directed by Renny Harlin, and I seem to remember him stating in the Never Sleep Again documentary (which is a must-have for fans for the series) that it was his work on ANOES4 that landed him the gig directing Die Hard 2. From there he went on to become one of the top action movie directors of the nineties with films like Cliffhanger and The Long Kiss Goodnight, none of which he would have helmed had it not been for the success of ANOES4. The Dream Master was the 17th highest grossing movie at the US box office that year and the 19th highest grossing film globally. I've heard that it also received strong reviews when it first came out, so it definitely would have been on the industry's radar when Batman 89 was in production.

Anyway, sorry again for the digression. Back to the topic at hand.

Possibly the two idiots thing isn't aimed at flash and Batman but perhaps Flash and someone else? The spoiler sign is covering a character and it doesn't (?) appear to be supergirl? Cyborg was originally supposed to be in this

Indeed. The consensus I've been seeing on most sites is that Muschietti's "two idiots" line does not refer to Batman, but rather to Barry and whoever's face was obscured behind the spoiler tag (Cyborg? Wally West? Alexander Knox? Robin?). I don't think it's anything to worry about. And to reiterate something I wrote earlier in the thread, I suspect this video is pretty old anyway and that some of the plot points and concept images featured in it might no longer be relevant to the film in its current form.