Spider-Man 3 (2007) Comic Influences

[Silver Nemesis]

Let's wrap up our comic-to-screen analyses of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy with a look at the final entry in the series. You can check out the comic influences on the first two films in the following threads if you haven't already done so:

Spider-Man (2002) https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=3590.0
Spider-Man 2 (2004) https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=3861.0

As with the previous two films, Raimi once again emphasised the importance of the source material.

"What wasn't set up by the first two pictures was really influenced greatly from all the great writers and artists of the Marvel comic books of the first 45 years."

https://www.superherohype.com/features/93443-spider-man-3-interviews-director-sam-raimi

Raimi explained that one of his reasons for using Sandman was the character's relatively simplistic back story, which he felt could be expanded without angering the comic fans.

"We chose a villain that did not have such a detailed back story that I would be in defiance with those comic book fans [...] The Sandman I always thought was a great visual character and could be a formidable foe against Spider-Man from all the great Marvel comic books and yet his background so detailed or defined that this would be in conflict."

https://www.superherohype.com/features/93443-spider-man-3-interviews-director-sam-raimi

Raimi was initially reluctant to include Venom, but did so after studying his comic book origins at the behest of producer Avi Arad.

"Once we finished the story, Avi our producer and partner and the former head of Marvel comic books, said, "Sam listen, you are so aware of all of these '70s villains, but you really need to incorporate Venom into this story because the fans really love Venom and don't be so selfish with villains that you know and love." So I said, "okay." I didn't understand that much about Venom because I hadn't really read as a kid. So I went to school on Venom and Avi taught me a lot about Venom and then Alvin Sargent, our screenwriter, he really was the voice of Venom and the writing of the screenplay and he showed me who he was. Then Topher Grace brought another life to the character until finally I had to go to school on all of these people being my teacher as to who he was and trying to satisfy the comic book fans and incorporate Venom into the story."

https://www.superherohype.com/features/93443-spider-man-3-interviews-director-sam-raimi

The black suit storyline in Spider-Man 3 is adapted from the 'Alien Costume Saga' that ran from May 1984 to April 1985. This arc had previously been adapted as a three-part storyline in the first season of Spider-Man: The Animated Series titled 'The Alien Costume' (later released on DVD as Spider-Man: The Venom Saga). The Spider-Man: The Animated Series version of this story was subsequently adapted as a comic in Spider-Man Adventures Vol 1 #8-10 (July-September 1995). Raimi's movie lifts elements from all three of these sources, as well as the first Venom storyline in the Ultimate Spider-Man comics.

Many have observed similarities between Raimi's Spider-Man films and the first three Christopher Reeve Superman movies, and in keeping with those comparisons we can identify several parallels between Richard Lester's Superman III (1983) and the final entry in Raimi's trilogy. The plots of both films see the hero being infected by an alien substance that causes him to turn bad. In both films the hero is introduced to a new love interest (Lana/Gwen), and in both stories he must conquer his inner darkness and do battle against a foe who is a shadowy reflection of himself.

The movie picks up shortly after the events of Spider-Man 2. Things seem to be going well in Peter's life and Mary Jane is living her dream of acting on Broadway. Mary Jane also pursued an acting career in the comics and at one point moved to the West Coast to find work in Hollywood.

One of the movie's subplots concerns Peter's friendship with Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane's resultant jealousy. Gwen first appeared in the comics in 'If This Be My Destiny...!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #31, December 1965). In both the comics and the movie she is depicted as a classmate of Peter's at university. Her role in the movie – coming between Peter and M.J. – is similar to Felicia Hardy's role in the 'Alien Costume Saga'.

Early in the film we see Harry emerging from a chamber in his father's old hideout after dosing himself with the Green Goblin formula. The following panels are from 'Final Judgement' (The Spectacular Spider-Man Vol 1 #188, May 1992).

A mask can be seen in Harry's hideout resembling the one worn by the comic villain Hobgoblin. Prior to the film's release, there was online speculation that Harry's costumed persona might be based on Hobgoblin rather than the Green Goblin guise worn by his father.

Following this scene we are introduced to one of the movie's other main villains: Flint Marko, aka the Sandman. It's established straight off the bat that the cinematic version of Marko has a sympathetic motive for his crimes: he needs to raise money to fund his sick daughter's medical treatment. By contrast, the comic book Marko never had a wife or biological daughter and was a much nastier and far less sympathetic character. He debuted in 'Nothing Can Stop... the Sandman!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #4, September 1963).

Elsewhere Peter and Mary Jane are watching a meteor shower in the park. It is during this scene that the alien Symbiote crashes to Earth. The Symbiote first appeared in 'Homecoming!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #252, May 1984), though it's first chronological appearance was in 'Invasion!' (Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars Vol 1 #8, December 1984).

In the comics it was Peter himself who brought the Symbiote back to Earth after he discovered it on Battleworld. The Spider-Man: The Animated Series episode 'The Alien Costume, Part I' (s01e08) presents a different sequence of events where John Jameson brings the Symbiote to Earth after finding it on an asteroid. Supposedly earlier treatments of the Spider-Man 3 script also had John bringing the Symbiote to Earth, but the idea was later dropped in favour of having it arrive during a meteor shower. Ruben Fleischer's Venom (2018) would later use John Jameson's space mission to explain how the Symbiote reached Earth.

Following the scene in the park, Harry makes his costumed debut as New Goblin. Harry first fought Peter as the Green Goblin in 'The Green Goblin Lives Again!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #136, September 1974).

The cover of this issue shows Peter and Harry fighting on the latter's Goblin Glider like they do during their first battle in the film.

The fight ends with Harry sustaining an injury that leaves him with amnesia. The same thing happened to the Green Goblin in the comics, only it was Norman Osborn that lost his memory rather than Harry. This happened after the Green Goblin battled Spider-Man in 'Spidey Saves the Day!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #40, September 1966).

Norman would remain an amnesiac for several years before finally regaining his memory in 'The Goblin Lives!' (Amazing Spider-Man Annual Vol 1 #9, June 1973). Similarly Harry takes a while to recover his memory in the movie.

The scene where Marko is transformed into Sandman is more or less faithful to his origin story in Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #4. In both versions he is being chased by the police at night when he stumbles onto an experimental test site.

In the comic he is exposed to radiation from a nuclear blast, while in the movie he is caught in a particle accelerator.

Following the test, Marko is able to rearrange his molecules like grains of sand in order to alter his physical shape.

Gwen's father, Captain George Stacy, has a supporting role in the film. He first appeared in 'Disaster!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #56, January 1968).

The scenes of Mr. Ditkovitch harassing Peter about his rent money recall Peter's landlady, Mrs. Muggins, giving him similar grief in the comics. The following panel is from 'Even a Ghost Can Fear the Night!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #255, August 1984), which was part of the 'Alien Costume Saga'.

Another addition to the cast is Eddie Brock Jr. Brock, or rather Venom, was first glimpsed in the comics in 'The Longest Road!' (Web of Spider-Man Vol 1 #18, September 1986), though his first proper appearance was in 'Survival of the Hittest!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #299, April 1988).

In the comics Eddie Brock was depicted as muscular before he bonded with the Symbiote, while in the film he's shown to have a more average build. In the comics Eddie wasn't evil before becoming Venom and his fall from grace was a result of genuine error. By contrast, the movie version is portrayed as dishonest from the get go and his fall from grace is a direct consequence of his own lies. The movie Brock's lean physical appearance and slimy personality are closer to the Ultimate Spider-Man version of the character than the 616 incarnation.

The film's characterisation of Brock is also heavily indebted to the version from Spider-Man: The Animated Series. In the TV show Brock is portrayed as an ambitious photojournalist who sucks up to Jameson and secures a job at The Daily Bugle by helping J.J. make Spider-Man look bad. The panel below is from 'The Alien Costume' (Spider-Man Adventures Vol 1 #8, July 1995).

In the film Eddie is romantically involved with Gwen Stacy. They were also briefly attached in the Ultimate Spider-Man comics. The panel below is from 'Inheritance' (Ultimate Spider-Man Vol 1 #34, March 2003).

The scene where Spider-Man saves Gwen from falling to her death recalls the 'The Night Gwen Stacy Died' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #121, June 1973). In the comic Peter accidentally snapped Gwen's neck when he tried to stop her fall using his webbing. There's a moment in the movie where he fires his webbing down towards her as she plummets, but instead of grabbing Gwen with it he uses the web to catapult himself off some rubble and safely catch her in his arms.

The movie scene where Spider-Man saves Gwen is closer to the comic 'What If Gwen Stacy Had Lived?' (What If? Vol 1 #24, December 1980), in which Peter leaps after Gwen and safely catches her instead of using his web.

Spider-Man creator Stan Lee has a brief exchange with Peter during his final cameo of the trilogy. His line "'Nuff said" is a reference to one of the catchphrases he regularly used in his 'Bullpen Bulletin' editorials.

Sandman is able to travel on the wind by turning himself into sand particles. The following panels are from Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #4.

Spider-Man's first fight with Sandman contains several visual references to Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #4. In both stories Spider-Man tries punching Sandman in the stomach when he first meets him, only for his fist to go through Marko's torso.

Sandman is able to enlarge his hand.

He also turns his hands into giant mallets.

Their first encounter in both the movie and the comics ends with Sandman making a clean getaway.

Peter meets with Mary Jane at a restaurant where he intends to propose. However Mary Jane becomes jealous of Peter's friendship with Gwen and suspects there's something romantic between them. Similar tensions arose in the Ultimate Spider-Man comics, and in both stories Peter had to deny there was anything between him and Gwen. The panel below is from 'Still' (Ultimate Spider-Man Vol 1 #37, May 2003), which was part of the Venom storyline.

Mary Jane's jealousy of Gwen also echoes her jealousy of Peter's relationship with Black Cat during the 'Alien Costume Saga'. The panels below are from 'The Sinister Secret of Spider-Man's New Costume!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #258, November 1984).

The plotline about Peter seeking revenge against Marko for Uncle Ben's death is original to the movie, though it does recall his vendetta against Sin-Eater in 'The Death of Jean DeWolff' story arc (Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man Vol 1 #107–110, October 1985–January 1986). I'll come back to this later.

The scene where the Symbiote takes control of Peter while he sleeps is adapted from the aforementioned Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #255.

In the comic Spider-Man then goes out in the Symbiote suit while Peter continues to sleep inside it. Afterwards he has no memory of where he went. This was adapted in the Spider-Man: The Animated Series episode 'The Alien Costume, Part I', which in turn was heavily referenced in Raimi's movie. The animated version of the scene has Peter waking up in the black suit while hanging upside down in front of a skyscraper with no memory of how he got there. The movie recreates this scene practically shot-for-shot. In both the cartoon and the film, this marks the first time Peter wears the black suit.

The scene in the movie where the Symbiote first engulfs Peter also resembles a scene from ''Til Death Do Us Part!' (Web of Spider-Man Vol 1 #1, April 1985). In the comic the Symbiote tracks Peter to his apartment after the two have separated and stealthily attaches itself to him, much like it does in the movie.

In both stories Peter doesn't realise what is happening until he sees his reflection.

The following comparison is with a scene from Web of Spider-Man Vol 1 #1. In both the comic and the movie, this scene occurs right after the Symbiote has bonded itself with Spider-Man back in Peter's apartment.

While wearing the Symbiote suit in the comics, Peter no longer needed his web shooters. Instead he was able to project organic webbing with the aid of the suit. This may have inspired the organic web shooters in Raimi's films. In both the comics and the movie, the ability to fire organic webs was subsequently passed on to Eddie Brock when he bonded with the Symbiote.

In the movie Peter asks Dr. Connors to examine the Symbiote. In the original 616 story he asked Reed Richards to examine it, as depicted in Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #258. However in Spider-Man: The Animated Series he asked Dr. Connors to check it out for him. The following panels are from 'The Alien Costume, Part 2: Paint it Black!' (Spider-Man Adventures Vol 1 #9, July 1995).

[Silver Nemesis]

The scene where Spider-Man stalks Sandman through the underground tunnels is visually redolent of the sequence where he hunts Vermin through the sewers in Kraven's Last Hunt (1987). Spider-Man is wearing his black suit in both scenes, which allows him to blend in with the shadows on the tunnel ceiling.

The moment where Spider-Man holds Sandman's face against the passing train is copied from Stephen Norrington's Blade (1998), which features a fight scene where the title character holds the vampire Quinn's face against the side of a passing subway train in an identical fashion.

In the film Spider-Man tries to avenge Uncle Ben by killing Sandman. This may have been inspired by 'All My Sins Remembered' (Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man Vol 1 #110, January 1986) in which Spider-Man loses control while trying to avenge the murder of Jean DeWolff and almost beats Sin-Eater to death.

In the comic Daredevil shows up and stops Spider-Man, at which point Peter then turns his anger on the Man Without Fear and the two of them fight. This is a good example of how Peter's personality became angrier and more aggressive during the 'Alien Costume Saga'.

There are also two similar scenes in Spider-Man: The Animated Series where Peter almost kills Rhino and Shocker, but in both instances he relents when he realises the black suit is influencing him to do evil. The following panels are from Spider-Man Adventures Vol 1 #8

In Spider-Man: The Animated Series Peter then looks at his reflection and sees a vision of Venom snarling back him. The same thing happens in a deleted scene from Spider-Man 3 that was included in the trailer. In both stories this occurs after Spider-Man has tried to kill one of his enemies, but before Brock has become Venom.

In the movie Peter wears the Symbiote suit beneath his civilian clothes. In the comics the Symbiote suit could transform to resemble whatever clothing Peter was thinking of, which allowed him to continue wearing it even when he was off duty as Spider-Man. The Symbiote costume displays similar transformative abilities in the movie when Brock wears it. The best example of this is the scene where Eddie kidnaps Mary Jane. One moment he's disguised as a taxi driver, and the next he's wearing his Venom suit.

After Harry regains his memory he is shown talking to his deceased father concerning his plans to punish Peter. He did this in the comics too, as seen in this example from 'Best of Enemies' (Spectacular Spider-Man Vol 1 #200, May 1993).

Peter meets with Mary Jane and asks her to marry him. He first tried proposing to her in the comics in 'The Rocket Racer's Back in Town!' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #182, July 1978).

M.J. rejected Peter's proposal in the following issue. She turns him down in the movie too, albeit for very different reasons. In both stories her rejection leads to them breaking up.

Following his second fight against New Goblin, Peter tries telling Harry he didn't kill Norman, but his former friend won't listen. The following panel is also from Spectacular Spider-Man Vol 1 #200.

After settling his score with Harry, Peter sets out to expose Brock as a fraud. In the 616 comics Brock was disgraced and lost his job at The Daily Globe after he printed an interview with a serial confessor claiming to be the villain Sin-Eater. When Spider-Man caught the real Sin-Eater, the error in Eddie's 'exclusive' was laid bare and his reputation ruined. He then lost his job and his credibility, and his life was effectively destroyed. In the movie he ends up similarly disgraced after forging photographs of Spider-Man for The Daily Bugle. This panel is from 'Venom' (Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #300, May 1988).

However, the movie's depiction of Brock's fall from grace is far closer to the version from Spider-Man: The Animated Series. In the TV show Brock intentionally lied about photos he took of Spider-Man in order to implicate him in a crime, knowing that this would endear him to Jameson and get him a job at The Daily Bugle. He does the same thing in the movie.

The scene in the film where Peter confronts Eddie in The Daily Bugle offices is based on a similar moment in the Spider-Man: The Animated Series episode 'The Alien Costume, Part II' (s01e09). The following panel is from Spider-Man Adventures Vol 1 #9.

Jameson investigates the accusations against Eddie and discovers Brock did indeed lie to him. He then promptly fires him.

In Spider-Man: The Animated Series Jameson calls Eddie "trash" when he fires him. In the movie it is Peter who calls him "trash".

Gwen breaks up with Eddie after he loses his job. Gwen also distanced herself from Brock in the Ultimate Spider-Man comics when she realised he was only after her for sex. In both stories this rejection leaves Eddie deeply embittered and contributes to his descent into villainy.

Eddie blames Spider-Man for his misfortune in the comics, while in the movie he blames Peter. In the Ultimate Spider-Man comics Eddie knew Peter and Spider-Man were one and the same before he became Venom, and he harboured a vendetta against both of them.

The scene where Marko emerges from the sewers through a drainage tunnel recalls how he escaped from prison in his debut story (in the comic this was before he became Sandman).

Peter finally removes the Symbiote in Web of Spider-Man Vol 1 #1 after arriving in a church tower and finding his costume reacts to the sound of the bells. Raimi confirmed that he adapted the scene in the church directly from the source material.

"It's very similar in how it was depicted in those classic Marvel comic books of the '80s that I've more recently become familiar with of how Spider-Man sheds his suit and how it became onto Eddie Brock. We were trying to pay tribute to those books."

https://www.superherohype.com/features/93443-spider-man-3-interviews-director-sam-raimi

The scene in the movie is pretty much identical to the scene in the comic.

In both the movie and Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #300 the despondent Eddie seeks refuge in the same church and asks God for help. In the comic he prays for forgiveness for the suicidal thoughts he's been contemplating, while in the movie he asks God to punish Peter on his behalf.

The Symbiote descends upon him and attaches itself to his body.

And thus Venom is born.

The idea of Venom targeting Mary Jane before he confronts Spider-Man originates in the 616 comics. Venom terrorised M.J. in her apartment in Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #299, which prompted Spider-Man to go confront him in the following issue.

The font used on Venom's web message is the same font used for the logo on the cover of the Spectacular Spider-Man comics.

The movie's showdown takes place on a construction site, similar to the finale of Raimi's first superhero film Darkman (1990).

When Spider-Man arrives on the scene he is briefly shown in front of the American flag. He also posed on a rooftop beside the American flag at the end of Sandman's debut story in Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #4.

Peter first realises that Venom is Eddie when the Symbiote peels back to reveal his face. Peter also didn't realise Venom was Eddie until the latter unmasked himself in the 616 and Ultimate Spider-Man comics. The panel below is from Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #300.

And here's the same scene as depicted in Ultimate Spider-Man Vol 1 #37.

When they first fight in the movie, Venom binds Spider-Man with his webbing and tears off his mask. He did the same thing in the Spider-Man: The Animated Series episode 'The Alien Costume, Part III' (s01e10). The following panels are from 'Coming of Venom!' (Spider-Man Adventures Vol 1 #10, September 1995).

Venom's line "How's that sound, tiger?" is also taken from this scene. In both instances it's delivered in the context of him threatening to take Mary Jane away from Peter.

Sandman takes on a gigantic form during the battle on the construction site. Spider-Man also fought a giant version of Sandman on a construction site in the Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends (1981-1983) episode 'Spider-Man Unmasked!' (s03e01). In the cartoon Spider-Man had Iceman and Firestar to aid him in the battle, while in the movie he has New Goblin on his side.

In the movie Harry shows up just in time to help Peter and Mary Jane. He also saved them both in Spectacular Spider-Man Vol 1 #200, right before he died. In the comic he rigged explosives in his apartment building with the intent of killing both himself and Spider-Man, but came to his senses when he realised his son and Mary Jane were also in the building. After saving them both, he raced back into the building to save Peter from the explosion. As in the comics, it is Harry's feelings of friendship towards Peter and Mary Jane that ultimately bring him back to his senses and compel him to abandon his quest for vengeance. In both stories he saves Peter and Mary Jane's lives before relinquishing his own.

Venom is able to get the jump on Spider-Man and attack him without triggering his Spider-Sense. This reflects their first fight in Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #300, where Peter's Spider-Sense failed to alert him to Venom's attacks.

In the film Harry sacrifices himself to protect Peter by leaping into the path of his own Goblin Glider as Venom tries to stab Spider-Man with it. This was almost certainly inspired by Ben Reilly's death in 'The Night of the Goblin!' (Peter Parker: Spider-Man Vol 1 #75, December 1996). Like Harry, Ben hurled himself in the way of a Goblin Glider that was about to impale Spider-Man. Only in Ben's case it was Norman Osborn's glider rather than Harry's. Raimi referenced 'The Night of the Goblin!' in his first Spider-Man film, so there's a good chance the similarity here is deliberate.

Spider-Man eventually defeats Venom using sound, as he did when they first fought in Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #300. In the comic he used a sonic blaster, while in the film he creates noise by striking metal bars together. In both stories the cacophony causes the Symbiote to loosen its hold on Eddie.

In Spider-Man: The Animated Series Peter lured Venom to a rocket launch site, where the sound of the blast caused the Symbiote to separate from Brock. The following scene is from Spider-Man Adventures Vol 1 #10.

Peter then used his webbing to attach the Symbiote to the rocket as it was taking off. In the movie he destroys the Symbiote with one of Henry's goblin grenades. In the comics the Symbiote is vulnerable to fire.

Harry's final line in the movie echoes the last thing he said to Peter before he died in the comics, as depicted in Spectacular Spider-Man Vol 1 #200: "You're my best friend."

In the movie Harry's last line is, "You're my friend," to which Peter answers, "Best friend." Harry then dies holding Peter's hand.

And that concludes this analysis of Spider-Man 3, and of Sam Raimi's trilogy as a whole. Did I overlook anything? If so, please feel free to point it out.

Now that we've looked at the entire trilogy, what's the verdict on Raimi's adaptation? Did he do a good job translating the comics into live action? Did one film adapt the source material more successfully than the others? Is the trilogy as a whole satisfying or disappointing?

[The Dark Knight]

You're a treasure. I've been on a Spider-Man kick lately so this comes at the right time. I've been replaying the PS4 game (which I think is one of the best incarnations from any medium) and giving Spectacular Spider-Man another look. Which is also very good.

The Spider-Man 3 comic influences are there for all to see, and while I like a variety of Spider-Man content, Raimi is it for me.

The Raimi series took the approach that I admire so much with Dean Cain's incarnation of Superman - focusing on the man behind the myth and unabashedly capturing his heart and soul. When I think of Spider-Man I think of the struggle of being a hero, and quirky charm - we received both in spades.   

The casting of Tobey Maguire and the musical wallpaper of Danny Elfman help achieve this better than anything I've seen. However Hans Zimmer made me feel very similar with his grossly underrated TASM2 soundtrack - particularly 'I Need To Know', 'You Need Me', 'No Place Like Home' and the 'Within The Web (First Day Jam) song. There's a bittersweet elation in these atmospheres that speak to me. It's a hard thing to capture but Elfman and Zimmer did it.

Spider-Man 3 is my second favorite in the saga and I can't see it moving from that position. The action sequences in SM2 and 3 really are fantastic and I don't think any SpiderMan films since have rivalled them. Sandman is severely under-appreciated, and that also goes for the depiction of Venom, which as you demonstrate, evokes the source material. SM3 has a lot going on narratively, but it all has a purpose and flows better than given credit for.

I'll scour some comics and see if I notice anything else - but you've covered a lot here.

[thecolorsblend]

My knowledge of Spider-Man comics is far more limited than, say, Superman or Batman. Or even Daredevil. So, I'll take SN's word for it on all this stuff.

What I can say is that Danny Elfman's music isn't missed all that much here. Christopher Young does a really amazing job of creating a score that's a bit more operatic even than what Elfman had done in this series. Young took the music in directions that I honestly don't think Elfman would've considered. And I think the movie is the better for that.

Also, I find Venom's movie origin to be a pretty significant improvement over his comic book origin. Movie Eddie has reasons to hate both Peter and Spider-Man before realizing they're one and the same. And that hatred has some validity to it. After all, Peter took intentional action against Eddie. Eddie might've deserved that, of course, but Peter still did it on purpose. Y'know, rather than the comic book, where all Spider-Man did was do his job and unintentionally prove Eddie wrong about something.

Considering how big a theme forgiveness is in Spider-Man 3, it's imperative that Peter and Eddie both hate somebody. But while Peter ultimately chooses to forgive the object of his hate while Eddie does not. In Spider-Man 3, forgiveness precedes healing while hatred precedes destruction. Even though we see in Spider-Man 3 that "forgiveness" and "reconciliation" are not always the same thing, the main point is that you can't move forward in life if you always have your boot on somebody else's chest. Refusing to forgive other people is to court peril.

The forgiveness thing is not always executed perfectly. Spider-Man willingly allows a thief and murderer to escape. Uncle Ben is not the only body left in Marko's wake. It is thematically correct for Spider-Man to allow his escape but it is wrong for character.

There's also the repetitive ending where once again MJ is kidnapped by the villains so once again Spider-Man has to swing in to action and once again he barely manages to save her.

Still, those are small matters. Quibbles aside, Spider-Man 3 is a criminally underrated entry into Raimi's trilogy. Frankly, I enjoy it more than the original film. And while the movie may not be perfect, its main sins seem to be having too many compelling stories, too many interesting characters, too many engaging subplots, fascinating literary themes and so forth. When the worst thing you can say about a movie is that it has too much good stuff in it, it can't possibly be a bad film.

[The Dark Knight]

What I can say is that Danny Elfman's music isn't missed all that much here. Christopher Young does a really amazing job of creating a score that's a bit more operatic even than what Elfman had done in this series. Young took the music in directions that I honestly don't think Elfman would've considered. And I think the movie is the better for that.

Elfman's absence wasn't a problem in the sense he already established the sound of the series beforehand. Keeping his main theme helped a lot in terms of continuity and Young's additions didn't feel out of place - they felt natural. Doc Ock had his own theme, and logic demanded Venom and Sandman have their own themes too. Young had enough scope to keep himself entertained without feeling too restricted. It all balanced out really well considering.

Quibbles aside, Spider-Man 3 is a criminally underrated entry into Raimi's trilogy. Frankly, I enjoy it more than the original film. And while the movie may not be perfect, its main sins seem to be having too many compelling stories, too many interesting characters, too many engaging subplots, fascinating literary themes and so forth. When the worst thing you can say about a movie is that it has too much good stuff in it, it can't possibly be a bad film.

Exactly. The original film is good, but relatively straightforward. Spider-Man 2 was very well received and thus presented the third movie with a challenge, and they met it. Spider-Man 3 more than meets the scope of Spider-Man 2 and has the same level of complexity, if not more. They went big and gave fans a lot to chew on after the three year wait. Fans can say they don't like the narrative choices, but they can't say the filmmakers were lazy. With a kitchen sink approach they probably cared too much.

[BatmanFurst]

Still, those are small matters. Quibbles aside, Spider-Man 3 is a criminally underrated entry into Raimi's trilogy. Frankly, I enjoy it more than the original film. And while the movie may not be perfect, its main sins seem to be having too many compelling stories, too many interesting characters, too many engaging subplots, fascinating literary themes and so forth. When the worst thing you can say about a movie is that it has too much good stuff in it, it can't possibly be a bad film.

I agree about it being better than the original film. The thing that really impresses me with this film is Peter's arc. It's a very well written story for Peter. I even think the film improves on the symbiote storyline from the comics. The symbiote representing Peter's ego, pride, and lust for revenge is way more interesting than it simply being a drug addiction metaphor imo.

[thecolorsblend]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_3#Spider-Man_3:_Editor's_Cut_(2017)

Since we're going through a bit of a Spider-Man 3 love fest here, it's worth mentioning that an editor's cut of the film was oh-fficially released back in 2017 as per the above wiki link. The long and the short of it is some scenes are in a different order, some scenes are gone, a few deleted scenes have been added and it sounds like a fairly interesting alternate cut of the film.

I say "sounds like" because while I own it, I haven't watched it yet. I was saving it for when I was really chomping at the bit for some Spider-Man 3. And that's when I would watch it.

I mention it here because this cut of the movie came out back in 2017 and somehow I slept through it. My life was going all kinds of bonkers back in 2017 so maybe I was just the last to hear the news. But in case anybody else missed hearing about it, here you go.

You can definitely get the editor's cut of the movie by buying the theatrical cut of the movie on iTunes. Idk about anywhere else.

[BatmanFurst]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_3#Spider-Man_3:_Editor's_Cut_(2017)

Since we're going through a bit of a Spider-Man 3 love fest here, it's worth mentioning that an editor's cut of the film was oh-fficially released back in 2017 as per the above wiki link. The long and the short of it is some scenes are in a different order, some scenes are gone, a few deleted scenes have been added and it sounds like a fairly interesting alternate cut of the film.

I say "sounds like" because while I own it, I haven't watched it yet. I was saving it for when I was really chomping at the bit for some Spider-Man 3. And that's when I would watch it.

I mention it here because this cut of the movie came out back in 2017 and somehow I slept through it. My life was going all kinds of bonkers back in 2017 so maybe I was just the last to hear the news. But in case anybody else missed hearing about it, here you go.

You can definitely get the editor's cut of the movie by buying the theatrical cut of the movie on iTunes. Idk about anywhere else.

I've seen this cut. I still prefer the theatrical cut mainly just because the editor's cut takes out the scene where Aunt May visits Peter. I think that scene is pretty important to Peter's arc. However, I do prefer Harry's turn to help Peter in the Editor's Cut. That random scene with the butler is taken out, and Harry just decides to help Peter because he's his best friend. I guess Raimi felt that it was important for Harry to discover the truth, but I just wish he found a less clunky way to do it.

[The Dark Knight]

Not a fan of the Editor's Cut and prefer the Theatrical. For one, the placement of the Funky Soul montage just doesn't work as well.

[Silver Nemesis]

The Raimi series took the approach that I admire so much with Dean Cain's incarnation of Superman - focusing on the man behind the myth and unabashedly capturing his heart and soul. When I think of Spider-Man I think of the struggle of being a hero, and quirky charm - we received both in spades.

I like the comparison with Cain's Superman. Super-Cain and Spider-Maguire are two of the most likeable, sympathetic and kind-hearted superheroes ever depicted in live action. They're the kind of guys you'd like to be friends with in real life. You feel sorry for them when other people treat them badly, and while you know they could easily get even by abusing their powers, the fact they don't makes them all the more admirable. They endure the loneliness and soldier on, putting other people's needs ahead of their own. Like real heroes should.

If we're talking pure charm, I'd rank L&C, Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy and Batman '66 at the top of the list. Obviously I enjoy darker, grittier comic book adaptations as well, but there's something to be said for those more innocent and uplifting superhero stories. They cheer people up when times are rough.

The casting of Tobey Maguire and the musical wallpaper of Danny Elfman help achieve this better than anything I've seen. However Hans Zimmer made me feel very similar with his grossly underrated TASM2 soundtrack - particularly 'I Need To Know', 'You Need Me', 'No Place Like Home' and the 'Within The Web (First Day Jam) song. There's a bittersweet elation in these atmospheres that speak to me. It's a hard thing to capture but Elfman and Zimmer did it.

I watched The Amazing Spider-Man 2 again back in February, and the score really is excellent.

I've got issues with that film, but overall it stands up surprisingly well to repeated viewings. The first Amazing Spider-Man might be objectively better, but I enjoy revisiting the second one more.

What I can say is that Danny Elfman's music isn't missed all that much here. Christopher Young does a really amazing job of creating a score that's a bit more operatic even than what Elfman had done in this series. Young took the music in directions that I honestly don't think Elfman would've considered. And I think the movie is the better for that.

One of the reasons the transition from Elfman to Young worked so well was that Raimi had clearly been using Young's earlier work as a musical reference for the first two Spider-Man films. Just compare 'Fusion' from the SM2 score (apparently this particular track was composed by Young) with Young's score for Hellraiser II.

This is probably the reason Elfman and Raimi fell out in the first place. Elfman has often expressed frustration with being asked to imitate the styles of other composers and has referred to temp tracks as "The bane of my existence." It was obvious Raimi wanted Young from the get-go, so it made sense to get him for SM3.

Also, I find Venom's movie origin to be a pretty significant improvement over his comic book origin. Movie Eddie has reasons to hate both Peter and Spider-Man before realizing they're one and the same. And that hatred has some validity to it. After all, Peter took intentional action against Eddie. Eddie might've deserved that, of course, but Peter still did it on purpose. Y'know, rather than the comic book, where all Spider-Man did was do his job and unintentionally prove Eddie wrong about something.

The film is definitely an improvement over the comic in this regard. Brock was never even mentioned during the original Sin-Eater storyline, and his involvement was only retroactively inserted in Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #300. They teased Venom in several issues before that, but never even mentioned Eddie. So when readers finally learned the identity of this mysterious new villain it turned out to be... a character they'd never even heard of until now. At least the film foreshadows Eddie's heel turn by showing his involvement in the black suit storyline and establishing that he has a personal connection to both Peter and Spider-Man. Though credit for this revision should really go to the makers of Spider-Man: The Animated Series more than Raimi.

Regarding the scene in the church, the only thing I don't like about it is the wording of Brock's prayer. "I want you to kill Peter Parker" feels a bit too blunt. It takes what should be a moment of pathos and changes it into an overtly villainous beat. It would have been better if he'd simply prayed for strength, or for guidance as to what he should do next. But this quibble aside, it's a good scene that surpasses the source material. I know some viewers dismiss the shot of Spider-Man brooding on the steeple as "emo", but it's one of my favourite shots in any CBM ever. The muted palette of the cinematography, the moody overcast, the smooth rotating camera movement, the sombre harmonicity between Young's score and the sound of the rain – it's all so delightfully gothic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_3#Spider-Man_3:_Editor's_Cut_(2017)

Since we're going through a bit of a Spider-Man 3 love fest here, it's worth mentioning that an editor's cut of the film was oh-fficially released back in 2017 as per the above wiki link. The long and the short of it is some scenes are in a different order, some scenes are gone, a few deleted scenes have been added and it sounds like a fairly interesting alternate cut of the film.

I say "sounds like" because while I own it, I haven't watched it yet. I was saving it for when I was really chomping at the bit for some Spider-Man 3. And that's when I would watch it.

I mention it here because this cut of the movie came out back in 2017 and somehow I slept through it. My life was going all kinds of bonkers back in 2017 so maybe I was just the last to hear the news. But in case anybody else missed hearing about it, here you go.

You can definitely get the editor's cut of the movie by buying the theatrical cut of the movie on iTunes. Idk about anywhere else.

I've seen this cut. I still prefer the theatrical cut mainly just because the editor's cut takes out the scene where Aunt May visits Peter. I think that scene is pretty important to Peter's arc. However, I do prefer Harry's turn to help Peter in the Editor's Cut. That random scene with the butler is taken out, and Harry just decides to help Peter because he's his best friend. I guess Raimi felt that it was important for Harry to discover the truth, but I just wish he found a less clunky way to do it.

Not a fan of the Editor's Cut and prefer the Theatrical. For one, the placement of the Funky Soul montage just doesn't work as well.

I only discovered the Editor's Cut last year and I still haven't gotten around to watching it. I read an interview with the editor where he was asked why he shortened the film instead of restoring the deleted scenes to extend it, and he replied that he felt concision was preferable to protraction. Normally I might agree with this sentiment, but not in the case of SM3. I do agree that the film has too many characters and should have been streamlined during the planning stage. For example, you could easily cut Gwen and her father from the movie and have Betty Brant fulfil their role in the plot. And it probably would have been better to have featured Brock as a supporting character and then save Venom for the sequel. But considering the number of storylines and characters they did use, it would be better at this stage to try and do justice to those elements instead of truncating them further.

The theatrical cut needed at least another 15-20 minutes to set up the finale after Brock bonds with the Symbiote. There needed to be some scenes of Brock adapting to his new powers and coming to terms with what the Symbiote is. They also needed to restore the subplot about Marko's daughter's doctor and the scene where Venom offers to finance her operation if Sandman helps him kill Spider-Man, as well as the scene where Marko's family appear at the construction site and reveal that his daughter's condition is incurable. The scenes that establish Harry's butler as an hallucination representing his conscience should also have been restored. So I reckon the definitive cut of Spider-Man 3 has yet to be released. But the materials exist for it to happen one day.

I love the alternate prelude to Peter's confrontation with Harry. I don't know why they went with the version in the theatrical cut over this.