Will the Snyder cut appear on HBO Max?

[Gotham Knight]

Time for final thoughts.

Were Joss Whedon not problematic, I'd say that he might deserve an apology. I would also suggest that the terms Whedon Cut and Snyder Cut create a narrative unconcerned with the truth. Rather what we have is a theatrical cut versus a massive extended cut. The theatrical cut is best described as a rescue attempt, albeit a failed one. It is the worse version, it jettisons the stronger connective tissues because it was decided that Justice League would no longer be a trilogy, making Steppenwolf less effective, and he is far and away the best part of the extended cut because he provides one of few centralizing agents to what is several movies worth. And that is the big kicker. What we have is the same so-so kinda bad movie that is more coherent (Batman V Superman Ultimate Edition anyone?) but with a myriad of other movies going on that pose as character introductions that make it impossible to contend with.

The Cyborg movie is very strong but it has to contend with a zillion other things going on including a movie we've seen already that was hyped as a 'restoration of a vision.' It turns out a handful of scenes added as pothole covers to an already gutted movie does not a Whedon Cut make.

I have no doubt I'm the minority opinion. That's cool. I mean no harm, but that's my view. Thank you and goodnight.

[thecolorsblend]

Snyder has revealed he filmed the new epilogue scenes against WB's wishes but was forced to make one particular compromise. Spoilers below.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2564640/zack-snyder-says-the-studio-had-rules-about-what-he-couldnt-put-in-his-snyder-cut-of-justice-league

This business of ZSJL as an interesting experiment and Josstice League as the canonical version of the story doesn't sit right with me. I suspect most fans are coming from the same place. Somehow, against all odds, even the critics seem to pretty much be on the same page.

In fact, it looks to me like the only people who want the Whedon cut to be canon all work for WB.

And yet, WB doesn't have the final say on this. AT&T ultimately does. If ZSJL truly is the success that it appears to be then maintain the Whedon cut as canon makes literally no sense whatsoever. And AT&T didn't become AT&f**kingT by making decisions that don't make sense.

I'm not saying that automatically leads to ZSJL2. But I AM saying that ZSJL is very likely to replace Josstice League as canon. That decision costs AT&T literally nothing at this point. But it satisfies a whole bunch of people. Free good will isn't easy to come by in that industry.

I have no doubt I'm the minority opinion. That's cool. I mean no harm, but that's my view. Thank you and goodnight.

Frankly, I have no doubt that you're in the minority opinion either.

Thing is tho, I don't need everyone to repeat my opinions back to me. Disagreement is what makes online discussion fun.

I would like to say that you're not totally wrong when you say that ZSJL tells essentially the same story as the Whedon cut. Batman and Diana assemble the Justice League, they resurrect Superman and they all have a big showdown with Steppenwolf in the end. But the journey is at least as important as the destination. For me, it's simply not arguable that Snyder tells the story and pays it off in ways that are infinitely more satisfying according to my tastes and sensibilities.

If you don't enjoy Snyder's version of the movie, there's probably nothing I can say to change your mind. But I got basically everything I wanted from his movies and I'm quite happy about that.

[The Joker]

I'll keep this short and sweet.

As a fan of both Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, Zack Snyder's Justice League was very much worth the wait and then some. I honestly can't say how I would rank the Snyder DCEU trilogy, but the overall cohesion, that was sorely lacking with the 2017 release, is very much appreciated and will no doubt assist in the enjoyment of subsequent viewings. Or in one of those days where you sit down, kick back, and watch all three films back to back to back.

A blessing in many ways. Not just for the movement, or the film, but for the man (Zack Snyder) himself.

P.S. I want the sequels. Now.

[BatmanFurst]

Is a Schumacher cut of Forever even possible? Like are all the scenes from that original cut still around after 20 years?

In terms of arranging the original sequencing that wouldn't be a problem. I think BF is the most underrated Batman movie, and fully restored it's elevated further.

There's more footage that still hasn't been released. Off the top of my head there was a deleted scene where Bruce and Alfred buy The Box and open it in the Bat Cave. There's are some other scenes with Edward Nygma on Claw Island. Idk if that stuff is even around anymore.

[Silver Nemesis]

Regarding the footage used in the Whedon version, I would cite the Kuleshov effect as an example of how editing has altered its emotional context for the Snyder cut. For those not familiar with the Kuleshov effect, it's a concept relating to montage theory outlined by Russian filmmaker Lev Kuleshov. Kuleshov presented a close-up shot of a man's face and edited it together with a shot of a bowl of soup, a child in a coffin and a woman reclining on a chair. Audiences perceived subtle changes in the man's face when he looked at each of these things. When he looked at the bowl, his expression conveyed hunger; when he looked at the child, his expression conveyed grief; when he looked at the woman, his expression conveyed desire. But in all three instances, the reaction shot was exactly the same. It was the editing that changed the context and made audiences think they were seeing a different emotion.

Here's the master of suspense giving his own explanation.

My favourite example of the Kuleshov effect is in Blade Runner. Specifically the shot of Deckard nodding as he looks at the origami unicorn.

What's he reacting to here? Well in the original theatrical cut, the unicorn is Gaff's way of signalling to Deckard that he has visited his apartment but chosen not to kill Rachel. Gaff is basically giving them a head start and letting them go. Deckard's nod conveys gratitude and hope. However, in the later cuts of the film the meaning of this scene is completely changed by the addition of a single shot earlier in the movie: a shot of a unicorn that appears during Deckard's dream.

Now the origami unicorn represents something different. It's Gaff signalling to Deckard that his dreams are artificial, thereby revealing that Deckard himself is a Replicant. The emotional context is much darker and Deckard is now nodding with resignation and despair as he realises the truth about himself. The footage of Deckard's reaction is the same in all versions of the film, but the addition of that one extra shot earlier in the movie completely recontextualises it.

With Snyder's Justice League, there's no such massive alteration to the plot. The basic story is the same, as we always knew it would be. But the tone and emotional context of many scenes is altered to a significant degree. One example would be Cyborg's emotional state during the final act. In Whedon's cut Cyborg is fighting to stop the bad guy because he wants to save the world. Ok. That's fine, but it isn't terribly compelling on an emotional level. In Snyder's cut, Victor has just watched his father die. He's carrying around all that raw grief, as well as the guilt he feels for failing to square things with his dad before it was too late. This adds a whole new layer of pathos to his struggle. He's still fighting to save the world, but now he's also fighting to serve the cause for which his father sacrificed himself. The footage of him fighting Parademons might be the same as in the Whedon cut, but the context surrounding it is enhanced. As a viewer, that makes me care more about his actions.

Imagine the cathedral showdown from Batman '89, only the film's been edited to remove Bruce's relationship with Vicki or any references to the Joker killing Batman's parents. Now Batman's merely pursuing the Joker because he wants to stop the bad guy, not because he's trying to avenge his parents or save the woman he loves. Would the viewer still care as much about the final battle? A better example of how editing can recontextualise existing footage can be found in the fan edits of Batman Forever. The flashbacks don't mean much in the theatrical cut, but restore the close-up shot of the final entry in Thomas Wayne's journal and suddenly it all makes sense. Now you've got this extra layer of repressed guilt that Bruce has been struggling with throughout the film. It adds some much needed depth to his character arc. The new footage in JL has a similar effect. It gives us extra information about the characters and fleshes out their back stories, but it also changes the existing footage by modifying its context.

Another example would be the scene where Cyborg's automatic defences activate in Superman's presence. I always thought this felt very contrived in the theatrical cut, but in Snyder's version it connects with an earlier conversation in which it's stated that the Mother Boxes are wary of Superman and only became active after they sensed that he was dead. Since Cyborg's technology is derived from the Mother Boxes, this explains why his automatic defences would initially misidentify Clark as a threat. Cyborg's defence system reacts when it realises it's being scanned by a Kryptonian; the same Kryptonian the Mother Boxes were laying dormant to avoid. I don't recollect this connection between Superman and the Mother Boxes being explained in Whedon's cut. Perhaps it was and I just forgot. But if it wasn't, then this is another example of how the additional footage has improved material that was present in both versions of the film. In the Snyder cut we are given a reason for why Cyborg's automatic defence system reacts violently to Superman. I don't remember this explanation being present in the Whedon cut. And it's a pretty big omission, considering that entire set piece predicates on Cyborg's defences initiating the battle.

There clearly is a wealth of new footage in the Snyder cut (4 hrs vs. 2 hrs), but even the old footage is not exactly the same. Not really. Editing changes it. And that's to say nothing of the alterations to the cinematography and art direction. I'm looking forward to seeing some more in-depth analyses of the differences between the two cuts in the future. I expect we'll be getting some interesting video essays on the subject.

[thecolorsblend]

I'm looking forward to seeing some more in-depth analyses of the differences between the two cuts in the future. I expect we'll be getting some interesting video essays on the subject.

I'm there with you. There are some text pieces illustrating some of the more obvious differences between the two versions but analysis of the kind you describe is in short supply so far.

Then again, it's still early days.

Most surprising to me is how Rebecca Johnson hasn't posted her thoughts about ZSJL so far. But, hey, early days.

Here YouTube channel is https://www.youtube.com/user/duckmilkprod/videos so there's one resource to keep an eye on right there. You're hard-pressed to find a bigger Snyder fan than her. Combine that with her background in media production and she's a pretty good choice for video essays and whatnot.

[The Dark Knight]

How the hell do people who have been waiting for the Snyder cut like crazy not watch it all at once? I cannot fathom stopping halfway and resuming later. I'd go insane knowing it's all there and I'm saying no to it, even briefly. Four hours is nothing. I would have happily sat there for another four. And no doubt some of these people have no issue binge watching Netflix all day.

Anyway - I'll jot down other things I noticed and liked at some point. I think we've all seen the movie by now. So when it's time to open up to spoilers, I'll be ready.

[thecolorsblend]

How the hell do people who have been waiting for the Snyder cut like crazy not watch it all at once? I cannot fathom stopping halfway and resuming later. I'd go insane knowing it's all there and I'm saying no to it, even briefly. Four hours is nothing. I would have happily sat there for another four. And no doubt some of these people have no issue binge watching Netflix all day.

Anyway - I'll jot down other things I noticed and liked at some point. I think we've all seen the movie by now. So when it's time to open up to spoilers, I'll be ready.

In my case, it was a matter of practical necessity. I started watching Wednesday night, resumed Thursday, got interrupted by certain responsibilities and then finished the last ten minutes a bit later on Thursday. So, I basically knocked it all out in a bit less than 24 hours.

[The Dark Knight]

I've seen a tweet where the writer presents themselves as coming from a place of superior intelligence, but they lack that completely as context is removed. This tweet says Batman fans are dying on three strange hills, that it's not wrong for him to swear, use guns or kill.

The Knightmare timeline is literal anything goes hell on Earth. Enemies and friends put aside their differences to fight a common foe, but tension is going to remain and result in harsh talking. Superheroes have been killed, few remain, and low level grit in the form of Deathstroke, Joker and Batman will mostly win the day. In that context, if you're not using guns, you're inviting death.   

Batman didn't kill anybody in ZSJL. We know why he did in BvS. It's stressed to the ninth degree that he has changed. He's operating from faith and that's even reflected in the music.

But apart from that context: imagine presenting these three subjects as no go zones when two of them are so common in franchise media. Keaton used guns and killed. Bale used guns and people died from their use. It's just not okay when Snyder does it. To act as if these things are 'outliers' is the real lie.

[thecolorsblend]

#RestoreTheSynderverse is trending on Twitter. Again.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23restorethesynderverse&src=trend_click&vertical=trends