My biggest beef with Schumacher

[batass4880]

this is something people will never let go and I understand why, but we all know WB was shoving money down Joel's throat, so he did what he was told, dont blame Joel blame Warner Bros. they're the ones that initially wanted a lighter film.

Do you remeber the term "Make the film sorta toyetic"?

Totally agree. Each Batman film's quality is a reaction to the previous one. Shumacher gets grilled a lot for this and anyone could tell that B&R was just meant to sell merchandise. Not to sound like a Returns hater but I think that if Sam Hamm's screenplay for Returns was used, the quality of the other films could have been saved. Think about it--Forever was light because of the backlash against Returns which was too dark. Forever was a big hit so WB decided to purge the series by whoring it to the toy market. So now WB is playing it DEAD serious with this new series because of their self inflicted wounds, not that there's anything wrong with that. BTW, did WB sell enough toys after B&R came out? Did their plan work?

Actually now that I think about it, if Burton went ahead and used Sam Hamm's story it probably would have gotten soccer mommies mad too. There was alot of Catwoman violence such as stabbing and cutting like in the final film, plus there was some kinky and sexually suggestive stuff too. Also, the Penguin had his birds doing things that probably would make kids terrified of them after seeing it.

[thecolorsblend]

One thing that bugs me about Schumacher's cast is Clooney.  Some people say "if Clooney had a better script, he could've been an awesome Batman!"  Or some such stupidity.  I mean, seriously, what in Clooney's body of work suggests that the grinning tool could ever be anything except a grinning tool?  He never should've been Batman.  No way, no how.  Not even the goofy, campy Batman, who at least had some drama going, thanks to Adam West's portrayal.

"Hi Freeze.  I'm Batman."
No.  No you're not.

Actually now that I think about it, if Burton went ahead and used Sam Hamm's story, it probably would have gotten soccer mommies mad too. There was alot of Catwoman violence, such as stabbing and cutting like in the final film, plus there was some kinky and sexually suggestive stuff too. Also, the Penguin had his birds do things that probably would make kids terrified of them after seeing it.

I dunno, in retrospect BR has quite a few lurid moments.

[DarkVengeance]

Dude again, pure ignorance!

[thecolorsblend]

Dude again, pure ignorance!

Quoting the text you're referring to would've been helpful.  Nevertheless, I assume you're referring to my Clooney remarks.  Fair enough.  What movie has he done which suggests he's got the chops to pull of someone like Batman?  From Dusk Till Dawn?  I wouldn't say he was particularly "Batman'ish" in that one.  He was bewildered and a little aggressive but nothing that a lot of other Hollywood bigshots couldn't do better.  Is it his looks?  Granted, he does have a sort of blustery "public" Bruce Wayne demeanor and he did those scenes well enough in B&R.  Even so, either his repotoire up to now is very limited... or he as an actor is very limited.  At this point, I'm more likely to believe the latter.

[Paul (ral)]

Personnally, i think with better direction Clooney would have been decent.

[Gotham Knight]

Dude again, pure ignorance!

Quoting the text you're referring to would've been helpful.  Nevertheless, I assume you're referring to my Clooney remarks.  Fair enough.  What movie has he done which suggests he's got the chops to pull of someone like Batman?  From Dusk Till Dawn?  I wouldn't say he was particularly "Batman'ish" in that one.  He was bewildered and a little aggressive but nothing that a lot of other Hollywood bigshots couldn't do better.  Is it his looks?  Granted, he does have a sort of blustery "public" Bruce Wayne demeanor and he did those scenes well enough in B&R.  Even so, either his repotoire up to now is very limited... or he as an actor is very limited.  At this point, I'm more likely to believe the latter.

I agree. He is a much better director than actor, however when he plays his type, he's very good. I think he makes a great Bruce under any direction, but as Batman there is something too boy next door about his presence that doesn't hold water for a dark Batman.

[The Dark Knight]

Personnally, i think with better direction Clooney would have been decent.

Maybe, but I just don't like Clooney and don't see him as Batman. He didn't change his voice in the suit, he could have done that himself, but didn't. For shame Clooney.

[DarkVengeance]

I didnt like Clooney at all, and I know that many people say he coulda pulled off a "The Dark Knight Returns" older veteran batman very well, but I very much disagree. Theres nothing at all I like about his portrayals of either Bruce Wayne or Batman in the film, it is so stale, personally I think Arnolds performance no matter how cheesy is still alot better than what George did.

Val Kilmer was no Keaton or Bale but he was alot better than what Clooney did. I agree that George didnt even change his voice when in the suit, im pretty sure that wasnt a decision Joel made either, Clooney didnt even try. Probably the only thing about him was that his jawline was very close looking to batman from the comics and he looked decent in the suit lol except for this god awful thing.

[Sandman]

I agree Clooney is an alright actor, but just because you look the part doesn't mean you'll be perfect for it. Look at Michael Keaton he didn't have the look people wanted but he ended up being the greatest Batman yet.

Mabye Clooney could have done better without Schumacher but i seriously doubt it. They should have stuck with Val Kilmer sure he wasn't the best but aleast he tryed, but i guess he knew better.

[DarkVengeance]

Kilmer decided to not return and do "The Saint" instead we all know that people have said that Val and Joel conflicted on the set quite a bit, either career move woulda been bad for his career.