Any chance of a Reboot?

[Max Eckhardt]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here.

I have this weird condition where I can only enjoy a comic once it is old. If it's current I struggle to read them.
I particularly like reading collected editions like Anarchy or Strange Apparitions.
I think it's because I prefer my Batman stories to be as grounded as possible and modern runs from people like Grant Morrison (last time I checked in) are off the wall insane.

By distancing myself from the publication date I seem to be able to create a safe barrier in my mind. lol

I also dislike the darkness of modern comics. There's just too much black ink on the pages.

Ideally what I want from a comic is a grounded story that focuses more on characterisation and less on action. I want realistic artwork like that of Neal Adams, and I want long term continuity with a solo Batman. I don't like the extended Bat-family. I've enjoyed stories with Robin but generally I prefer Batman to work alone. I also hate crossovers. I don't want my Batman to exist in the same universe as Superman or Wonder Woman etc...

Back around the time of the first Sam Rami Spiderman movie I started reading Ultimate Spiderman. The format was perfect for my tastes. They rebooted the character which was a big attraction for me because it was my "In" and the plots were drawn out slowly over many issues allowing the writer to focus on characters and plot over action. When the when the action did occur I felt invested in the outcome.

At the time I thought that Ultimate Spiderman was a game changer. I thought that the comic book industry would embrace this new more mature story telling method and that I'd soon see a similar thing happen to my favourite hero, Batman.

The English comic book series Judge Dredd has never been rebooted. The character is in his 70's now. He ages in real time I believe.
If a reboot of Batman did that, if we started with a pre-Batman, watched him develop the persona, and then over the years take on a Robin etc... I would find this extremely compelling.

I have no idea what is happening with DC comics, i would like someone to fill me in, educate me. I hear that the comic industry is shrinking, what are the DC doing to grow their audience?


Is there a particular run that you good people think would appeal to my sensibilities, if so please let me know.
If a reboot is planned please let me know.
If you've been reading detective comics for decades please tell me how you've found the changes throughout the decades. Which is your favourite era.

If I were to guess I'd say that I'm probably out on a ledge alone here.
If others felt like me then surely DC would have accommodated us by now. Perhaps they have and it somehow passed me by.

[thecolorsblend]

My Batman's Canon generally starts with Year One and wraps up with Hush. There are a few items published before Year One that's part of my imaginary Batman canon but broadly his story begins in Year One and Hush is his series finale.

I don't approve of reboots, strictly speaking. John Byrne was permitted to reboot Superman in 1986 and now every shmuck writer in the world thinks it's his God-given right to reboot something whenever he wants. I especially don't approve of retcons, which is what we get more often than reboots, believe it or not. Reboots are bad; retcons are pure evil with a side of malice, washed down with spite.

I doubt a reboot for Batman will happen any time soon. Arguably that Zero Year train wreck IS the reboot. But it's a mess and I don't even want to think about it. But even if a Batman reboot happens, it's just a matter of time until DC screws it up because they don't really want to delete Batman's history. And in fairness, there are some amazing stories in his history. But rebooting takes a level of vision and commitment that I don't think DC has anymore. Maybe they never really had it. But they definitely don't have it anymore, that's for sure.

I expect that the comic book "industry" as we have known it will cease to exist sooner or later. When that happens, these characters won't be comic book characters anymore. They'll be TV characters or movie characters or whatever. Arguably, they already are those things. But the continued existence of comic books allows them to accurately be called comic book characters.

When the comics go away (and they will)... honestly, part of me will be happy. A bunch of hack writers and crap artists will have to find new jobs. They've had millions of chances to fix their problems and they refuse. Whatever happens next, they'll have done it to themselves and I'll be gleeful about their poverty.

All evidence to the contrary, I don't consider myself a cruel, spiteful person. But this thread obviously pushes a few of my buttons, so hmm.

[Silver Nemesis]

Welcome to the site, Max!

I like seeing Batman exist in the same universe as the other DC heroes, but I also enjoy the Caped Crusader's solo outings. Sometimes it's nice to have a straightforward mystery story that can be enjoyed in isolation without being bogged down by the overarching mythology. The numerous soft reboots and crossover events can indeed be frustrating. So I sympathise with your viewpoint.

As far as recommending modern comics that are self-contained, realistic, not excessively violent, and which don't feature other heroes... that's tricky. You're probably best off sticking with reprints of the older comics. In recent years DC has started publishing nice new collected editions of stories from the Golden and Silver Ages.

These have replaced their older 'Chronicles' line of trade paperbacks. I was a bit ticked off when they discontinued those, as I'd been trying to collect every Silver Age Flash comic in chronological order. But then they stopped printing them after The Flash Chronicles Volume 4. Now they've effectively 'rebooted' their vintage collections with these newer editions, so I can pick up where I left off.

Another title you might like to check out is Geoff Johns' Batman: Earth One series.

These are comparatively grounded stories that take place in their own universe and reboot Batman's story from scratch. They are a bit violent in places, but not as excessively gory as some of the other more recent Batman comics. You might like to check out the first volume and see if it's the sort of thing you're looking for. Other than that, I can't think of anything else to recommend offhand.

As far as the idea of a hard reboot goes, I expect a lot of fans would be interested in that provided it offered something fresh. Particularly after the mess that resulted from the Flashpoint soft reboot a few years ago. I've always thought it would be an interesting exercise to take the basic concept of Batman and start from scratch. There are certain things people expect to see from the Batman mythology, like batarangs, the classic cowl, the Batmobile, etc. But what if you ditched all of that stuff and went back to the basic concept of a man who uses the image of a bat to frighten criminals?

Supposing a modern vigilante with Bruce Wayne's financial resources decided to do this. It's unlikely he'd wear tights, throw boomerangs at people or sport a pointy-eared cowl. So what would he do? Perhaps he'd construct an animatronic mech suit resembling a giant bat. Something that could fly and withstand gunfire. Maybe he wouldn't even need to be inside the suit. Maybe he could control it like a drone from the safety of his mansion. Perhaps there could be a whole flock of drones, similar to what we saw in Kingdom Come (1996).

You could also reinterpret the villains. Take a familiar name and do something completely new with it.

The Riddler could be a cyber-terrorist whose viruses can only be defeated by correctly answering a question (Scott Snyder did something vaguely similar to this in Zero Year, but I'm thinking of a much more grounded and realistic approach).

Poison Ivy could be an eco-terrorist who gets her nickname after she sneaks into a hospital and poisons all the I.V. drips.

Mr Freeze could be a serial killer who injects his victims with a chemical refrigerant, harvests their organs to sell on the black market, and then leaves their eviscerated remains in refrigerators for the police to find.

Oswald Cobblepot could be reimagined as a Welsh albino mob boss who flies off the handle whenever anyone mocks his white hair ('pen gwyn' means 'white head' in Welsh). Making him an albino would also offer an explanation for why he always carries an umbrella to protect himself from the sun.

Most fans, myself included, would probably hate these ideas. But they wouldn't have to replace the mainstream canon. They'd just offer an alternative. Instead of seeing the same basic images and characteristics recycled over and over, I think it would be worth trying something different.

[thecolorsblend]

As far as the idea of a hard reboot goes, I expect a lot of fans would be interested in that provided it offered something fresh. Particularly after the mess that resulted from the Flashpoint soft reboot a few years ago. I've always thought it would be an interesting exercise to take the basic concept of Batman and start from scratch. There are certain things people expect to see from the Batman mythology, like batarangs, the classic cowl, the Batmobile, etc. But what if you ditched all of that stuff and went back to the basic concept of a man who uses the image of a bat to frighten criminals?

Supposing a modern vigilante with Bruce Wayne's financial resources decided to do this. It's unlikely he'd wear tights, throw boomerangs at people or sport a pointy-eared cowl. So what would he do? Perhaps he'd construct an animatronic mech suit resembling a giant bat. Something that could fly and withstand gunfire. Maybe he wouldn't even need to be inside the suit. Maybe he could control it like a drone from the safety of his mansion. Perhaps there could be a whole flock of drones, similar to what we saw in Kingdom Come (1996).

You could also reinterpret the villains. Take a familiar name and do something completely new with it.

The Riddler could be a cyber-terrorist whose viruses can only be defeated by correctly answering a question (Scott Snyder did something vaguely similar to this in Zero Year, but I'm thinking of a much more grounded and realistic approach).

Poison Ivy could be an eco-terrorist who gets her nickname after she sneaks into a hospital and poisons all the I.V. drips.

Mr Freeze could be a serial killer who injects his victims with a chemical refrigerant, harvests their organs to sell on the black market, and then leaves their eviscerated remains in refrigerators for the police to find.

Oswald Cobblepot could be reimagined as a Welsh albino mob boss who flies off the handle whenever anyone mocks his white hair ('pen gwyn' means 'white head' in Welsh). Making him an albino would also offer an explanation for why he always carries an umbrella to protect himself from the sun.

Most fans, myself included, would probably hate these ideas. But they wouldn't have to replace the mainstream canon. They'd just offer an alternative. Instead of seeing the same basic images and characteristics recycled over and over, I think it would be worth trying something different.

I realize your post wasn't directed at me but these ideas got me thinking.

A hard reboot with Superman is sort of predictable. There's a lot of stuff which has become absolute canon and you're playing with fire if you mess with too much of that.

As you imply, Batman doesn't necessarily have that kind of baggage. Stuff like Jason Todd becoming the second Robin (and then getting killed), Oracle, Batman's partnership with Gordon and other things really aren't as set in stone as people think. Batman has way more flexibility than most characters do in terms of his Absolute Canon. There's comparatively little hard canon for Batman.

On a related note, I think fans are (or could become) ready for a Batman reboot which essentially takes everything presented in The Case Of The Chemical Syndicate and then goes in new directions with it. The only rule can be "If it's been done before, we won't do it again here". If it's something committed to showing only new ideas for Batman in a modern world, that could be interesting.

The idea is to assume nothing about Bruce Wayne beyond what was shown in TCOTCS and develop him from that basic starting point.

There are tons of directions you could go in. Possibly a completely different supporting cast, possibly a completely different rogue's gallery, possibly a different backstory for Batman, etc.

[Max Eckhardt]

Welcome to the site, Max!

I like seeing Batman exist in the same universe as the other DC heroes, but I also enjoy the Caped Crusader's solo outings. Sometimes it's nice to have a straightforward mystery story that can be enjoyed in isolation without being bogged down by the overarching mythology. The numerous soft reboots and crossover events can indeed be frustrating. So I sympathise with your viewpoint.

As far as recommending modern comics that are self-contained, realistic, not excessively violent, and which don't feature other heroes... that's tricky. You're probably best off sticking with reprints of the older comics. In recent years DC has started publishing nice new collected editions of stories from the Golden and Silver Ages.

These have replaced their older 'Chronicles' line of trade paperbacks. I was a bit ticked off when they discontinued those, as I'd been trying to collect every Silver Age Flash comic in chronological order. But then they stopped printing them after The Flash Chronicles Volume 4. Now they've effectively 'rebooted' their vintage collections with these newer editions, so I can pick up where I left off.

Another title you might like to check out is Geoff Johns' Batman: Earth One series.

These are comparatively grounded stories that take place in their own universe and reboot Batman's story from scratch. They are a bit violent in places, but not as excessively gory as some of the other more recent Batman comics. You might like to check out the first volume and see if it's the sort of thing you're looking for. Other than that, I can't think of anything else to recommend offhand.

As far as the idea of a hard reboot goes, I expect a lot of fans would be interested in that provided it offered something fresh. Particularly after the mess that resulted from the Flashpoint soft reboot a few years ago. I've always thought it would be an interesting exercise to take the basic concept of Batman and start from scratch. There are certain things people expect to see from the Batman mythology, like batarangs, the classic cowl, the Batmobile, etc. But what if you ditched all of that stuff and went back to the basic concept of a man who uses the image of a bat to frighten criminals?

Supposing a modern vigilante with Bruce Wayne's financial resources decided to do this. It's unlikely he'd wear tights, throw boomerangs at people or sport a pointy-eared cowl. So what would he do? Perhaps he'd construct an animatronic mech suit resembling a giant bat. Something that could fly and withstand gunfire. Maybe he wouldn't even need to be inside the suit. Maybe he could control it like a drone from the safety of his mansion. Perhaps there could be a whole flock of drones, similar to what we saw in Kingdom Come (1996).

You could also reinterpret the villains. Take a familiar name and do something completely new with it.

The Riddler could be a cyber-terrorist whose viruses can only be defeated by correctly answering a question (Scott Snyder did something vaguely similar to this in Zero Year, but I'm thinking of a much more grounded and realistic approach).

Poison Ivy could be an eco-terrorist who gets her nickname after she sneaks into a hospital and poisons all the I.V. drips.

Mr Freeze could be a serial killer who injects his victims with a chemical refrigerant, harvests their organs to sell on the black market, and then leaves their eviscerated remains in refrigerators for the police to find.

Oswald Cobblepot could be reimagined as a Welsh albino mob boss who flies off the handle whenever anyone mocks his white hair ('pen gwyn' means 'white head' in Welsh). Making him an albino would also offer an explanation for why he always carries an umbrella to protect himself from the sun.

Most fans, myself included, would probably hate these ideas. But they wouldn't have to replace the mainstream canon. They'd just offer an alternative. Instead of seeing the same basic images and characteristics recycled over and over, I think it would be worth trying something different.

Thanks for the welcome, and thanks for the replied from everyone.
I think your ideas for a more grounded Batman are to realistic even for me

I'll try to give a feel for my personal sensibilities. In terms or realism i sort of fall around Tim Burton's 1989 Batman movie. That's roughly my sweet spot. Batman Begins stripped a little too much fun out of the character of Scarecrow for my tastes, and I'm not a fan of the tumbler.
Batman Returns went too far into fantasy with hacking the Batmobile and missile carrying penguins.
B89 did slip a little for me when the Joker brought down the Batwing with a pistol but overall that's the closest to date for me.

I'm ok with character like Joker, two-face, Ventriloquist but characters like Clayface, Poison Ivy, Mr Freeze, and killer croc go too far. They seem more supernatural in a way. Now i know you can take some of the out, for example you could make Ivy a killer using poison gas and injects and alike but that's not something you tend to see.

Paul Dini writes well I feel, even his handling of the more fantastical elements are presented in a more palatable manor where i can enjoy the stories. I guess it just a case of balance.

I've read the novelisation of No mans land a few times and that has often sparked my interest in seeking out the comic run but I'm not sure i would enjoy it since i already know the story. I wish i could have been reading conic in the 90's when there were year long continuity runs like no man's land Knightfall.

I don't see DC trying to grow their audience, I don't feel them trying to reach out to people like me. As I've said, I don't now what is going on with Batman. Shouldn't DC Comics be trying to communicate that to me?
Perhaps the success of the comic book movie has naturally bought in more readership, I'd be interested in knowing if that is the case.

As I said in my original post, the first Spiderman movie drew me to take a look at Marvel and they anticipated that with their Ultimate Spiderman reboot. As far as I know DC isn't doing that.

We have a new upcoming Batman movie from Matt Reeves, it seems like an excellent opportunity to do something to capitalise on that interest.

Something that has kong interested me is comic book continuations of movies. I'd love to see a Tim Burton inspired Batman comic book run or graphic novel.

[Max Eckhardt]

As far as the idea of a hard reboot goes, I expect a lot of fans would be interested in that provided it offered something fresh. Particularly after the mess that resulted from the Flashpoint soft reboot a few years ago. I've always thought it would be an interesting exercise to take the basic concept of Batman and start from scratch. There are certain things people expect to see from the Batman mythology, like batarangs, the classic cowl, the Batmobile, etc. But what if you ditched all of that stuff and went back to the basic concept of a man who uses the image of a bat to frighten criminals?

Supposing a modern vigilante with Bruce Wayne's financial resources decided to do this. It's unlikely he'd wear tights, throw boomerangs at people or sport a pointy-eared cowl. So what would he do? Perhaps he'd construct an animatronic mech suit resembling a giant bat. Something that could fly and withstand gunfire. Maybe he wouldn't even need to be inside the suit. Maybe he could control it like a drone from the safety of his mansion. Perhaps there could be a whole flock of drones, similar to what we saw in Kingdom Come (1996).

You could also reinterpret the villains. Take a familiar name and do something completely new with it.

The Riddler could be a cyber-terrorist whose viruses can only be defeated by correctly answering a question (Scott Snyder did something vaguely similar to this in Zero Year, but I'm thinking of a much more grounded and realistic approach).

Poison Ivy could be an eco-terrorist who gets her nickname after she sneaks into a hospital and poisons all the I.V. drips.

Mr Freeze could be a serial killer who injects his victims with a chemical refrigerant, harvests their organs to sell on the black market, and then leaves their eviscerated remains in refrigerators for the police to find.

Oswald Cobblepot could be reimagined as a Welsh albino mob boss who flies off the handle whenever anyone mocks his white hair ('pen gwyn' means 'white head' in Welsh). Making him an albino would also offer an explanation for why he always carries an umbrella to protect himself from the sun.

Most fans, myself included, would probably hate these ideas. But they wouldn't have to replace the mainstream canon. They'd just offer an alternative. Instead of seeing the same basic images and characteristics recycled over and over, I think it would be worth trying something different.

I realize your post wasn't directed at me but these ideas got me thinking.

A hard reboot with Superman is sort of predictable. There's a lot of stuff which has become absolute canon and you're playing with fire if you mess with too much of that.

As you imply, Batman doesn't necessarily have that kind of baggage. Stuff like Jason Todd becoming the second Robin (and then getting killed), Oracle, Batman's partnership with Gordon and other things really aren't as set in stone as people think. Batman has way more flexibility than most characters do in terms of his Absolute Canon. There's comparatively little hard canon for Batman.

On a related note, I think fans are (or could become) ready for a Batman reboot which essentially takes everything presented in The Case Of The Chemical Syndicate and then goes in new directions with it. The only rule can be "If it's been done before, we won't do it again here". If it's something committed to showing only new ideas for Batman in a modern world, that could be interesting.

The idea is to assume nothing about Bruce Wayne beyond what was shown in TCOTCS and develop him from that basic starting point.

There are tons of directions you could go in. Possibly a completely different supporting cast, possibly a completely different rogue's gallery, possibly a different backstory for Batman, etc.

I like that idea a lot. And what if they kept the publications in date with the real world? So a year in the comics is a year in our world. We could see out hero naturally age and mature along with his rogues gallery.

[Silver Nemesis]

On a related note, I think fans are (or could become) ready for a Batman reboot which essentially takes everything presented in The Case Of The Chemical Syndicate and then goes in new directions with it. The only rule can be "If it's been done before, we won't do it again here". If it's something committed to showing only new ideas for Batman in a modern world, that could be interesting.

The idea is to assume nothing about Bruce Wayne beyond what was shown in TCOTCS and develop him from that basic starting point.

I'd be up for that. You could go even further and just use the following three panels...

...and take it from there. Parents killed – swears revenge – adopts image of bat. There are many different ways comic creators could proceed from that simple premise.

I've always liked the hard line of demarcation between the Earth Two and Earth One Batmen. It's about time an equally hard line was drawn between the Modern Age Batman and whatever comes afterwards (preferably a hard reboot). Going back to 'The Case of the Chemical Syndicate' would be a great way of doing that.

I think your ideas for a more grounded Batman are to realistic even for me 

Those ideas wouldn't be my ideal take either. When it comes to Batman, I prefer verisimilitude over realism. The revisions I suggested are just meant to illustrate how writers could reinterpret the basic concept of a character to offer readers something different. But at the end of the day, the most traditional comic book version of Batman will always be the one for me.

I like that idea a lot. And what if they kept the publications in date with the real world? So a year in the comics is a year in our world. We could see out hero naturally age and mature along with his rogues gallery.

They actually did that (sort of) with the original Earth Two Batman. Unlike other versions of the character, the original Batman aged and died like a normal human.

He was born in 1915 and his parents were murdered sometime around 1925 when he was 10 years old.

He first donned the cowl in 1939 aged around 24 or 25.

Dick Grayson was born in 1928 and met Bruce Wayne in 1940 at the age of 12. That same year the two of them joined forces to become the Dynamic Duo and together they battled the Axis forces throughout World War II.

The Justice Society of America was formed in November 1940 and Batman was one of the founding members. Batman also faced Catwoman and the Joker for the first time in 1940. He didn't learn Catwoman's true identity until the mid-1950s.

Bruce and Dick met Alfred Beagle in 1943 and he stayed on at Wayne Manor as their butler until sometime after the mid-1950s.

In 1948 Batman discovered Joe Chill was the one responsible for murdering his parents. Chill was killed shortly afterwards, but not by Batman

In 1951 Batman discovered the Joker's true origins and learned of his former life as the Red Hood.

Batman and Robin continued fighting crime together until the mid-1950s. The Earth Two Robin didn't accurately age in real time, and he never became Nightwing. But by the 1960s he was in his thirties and was wearing a new adult Robin costume.

Bruce entered semi-retirement as Batman in 1955 in order to marry Selina Kyle. By that point he was aged around 40. Dick continued to fight crime as Robin and also served as a member of the JSA.

Bruce and Selina had a daughter named Helena Wayne who was born in 1957. Bruce would have been around 42 at the time.

In 1976 Selina was killed and Bruce – now aged about 61 – burned his batsuit and formally retired as Batman. Dick was still operating as Robin at this time. He should have been in his late forties, but still looked as if he was in his thirties. Meanwhile Helena Wayne, now aged 19, became the Huntress. She and Robin became the new Dynamic Duo.

James Gordon also died in 1977 and Bruce Wayne replaced him as police commissioner. At some point in the 1970s Bruce had also served as district attorney.

In 1979 Commissioner Wayne, now aged around 64 and suffering from lung cancer (he was a lifelong pipe smoker), came out of retirement as Batman for one final battle. He was then killed by the superpowered criminal Bill Jensen.

The Joker refused to believe Batman was dead and in 1981 he escaped from prison in an effort to find him. Dick Grayson briefly assumed the mantle of the bat and teamed up with Huntress to recapture the Joker one last time. Dick would have been in his early fifties at the time, but still appeared to be a relatively young man. Helena would have been around 24.

And that about sums it up for the Earth Two Batman. The sense of closure is one of the reasons I'm so fond of this version of the character. It's also one of the things I admire about Nolan's film trilogy. Most other Batmen have a beginning to their story, but no ending. But the Golden Age and Nolan Batmen each have a complete story that includes an ending. The Earth Two Batman also demonstrates that you can have a version of the character that is grounded in a timeline that reflects real life events (e.g. World War Two).

Of course the only reason DC allowed the character to age and die was that by the Bronze Age he'd already been replaced by his Earth One counterpart. If that was to happen today – if DC was to introduce a completely new version of Batman to replace the current Prime Earth incarnation – then maybe they'd finally allow the Modern Age Batman to age and die. Otherwise I don't see it happening.

[Max Eckhardt]

Wow, thanks for all that info. I appreciate you taking the time to explain of of that to me. I guess I've tried to join the comics too late. I might start looking into reading some of the older collected issues, maybe start in the 70's or 80's and move forward from there.