Fighting Style of the Schumacher Batman

Started by Silver Nemesis, Sat, 30 Mar 2019, 23:33

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We already have a thread on the fighting style of the Burton Batman (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=3798.0) so here's a similar thread for his successor. I'll start things off with my own analysis and then everyone else can pitch in with their observations or correct me where I've gone wrong.

One martial art you'd expect every Batman to use is Ninjutsu, but I don't think that applies in the case of the Schumacher Batman. The only time he uses stealth is when he clings to the roof of the elevator before attacking Two-Face's goons at the beginning of Batman Forever. Other than that, he doesn't use stealth, he doesn't disappear into the shadows (except for that one time he vanished while talking to Chase), and he doesn't incorporate smoke bombs, shuriken or other ninja apparatus into his arsenal (unless you count his grappling hooks). The West, Burton, Nolan and DCEU Batmen all make prominent use of ninja techniques, but Schumacher's doesn't.

So what martial arts does he use?

Don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember once reading online that Val Kilmer had trained in Wing Chun Kung Fu. This training might have been completely unrelated to Batman Forever and could have taken place years after he played the role. But looking at the action scenes in BF, I could believe that this was the foundation of his fighting style.

The Siu Nim Tao form of Wing Chun places a prominent emphasis on concentration and balance. Kilmer's Batman is noticeably more acrobatic than Keaton's and is also calmer and less aggressive. He displays a respectable level of balance in combat, extending his leg fully while maintaining his equilibrium whenever he executes a side kick.





His skill at intercepting enemy strikes, which is evidenced numerous times throughout the film, is also typical of Wing Chun. This is perhaps best demonstrated during the fight scene at Nygma's party.

One final piece of evidence to support his use of Wing Chun can be found in a deleted scene where Bruce's gym is shown to contain a Mu ren zhuang – a wooden training dummy commonly used in Chinese martial arts, and especially Wing Chun.


While Kilmer's Batman primarily uses strikes, he does also employ joint locks.


Note how he incapacitates the following goon with an arm lock, then takes advantage of his opponent's immobilisation to deliver a knee strike while still holding onto him. This is typical of Ju-Jitsu.


Later in the fight he throws a goon to the ground and applies a wristlock. Look carefully and you can see him still holding the goon's wrist while simultaneously fending off an attack from a different thug. The type of wrist lock he's using here is common to several martial arts, including Ju-Jitsu, Judo, Aikido and Hapkido.


I'm not sure about the throw he uses immediately prior to this. It could be Judo, Aikido or Hapkido. Considering how he flows straight from this throw into the aforementioned wrist lock and kick manoeuvre, I'm going to go ahead and guess it's probably Hapkido.


At one point during the bank fight Bat-Kilmer performs what looks like a flying armbar takedown. This is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu move derived from the classic cross armbar submission hold used in traditional Japanese Ju-Jitsu and Judo.


So to summarise, I'd guess Bat-Kilmer's fighting style is primarily a fusion of Wing Chun, Hapkido and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (and/or possibly Japanese Ju-Jitsu). He doesn't seem to be versed in as many fighting techniques as the Burton or Nolan Batmen, but he has a solid well-rounded proficiency in strikes, throws and grappling moves. In contrast to the fighting style of Keaton's Batman, Kilmer's is more graceful and acrobatic. Admittedly his most impressive display of skill is during the first fight scene at the bank, while throughout the rest of the movie he veers towards the flashier and less practical style of his successor.

Which brings me to Bat-Clooney. I don't have too much to say about his martial arts skills. To my knowledge, Clooney didn't undergo any combat training for Batman & Robin. There are a few shots where you can see him throw basic punches, but other than that he left all the action to his stunt doubles. So who were his fight doubles?

One was Chris Casamassa, who is perhaps best remembered amongst film fans for his portrayal of Scorpion in the first Mortal Kombat (1995) movie. Casamassa is a 9th degree black belt in Shōrin-ryū Karate.


Another martial artist who doubled for Clooney was Brad Martin, who holds a black belt in Taekwondo.


And that pretty much sums up Bat-Clooney's fighting style – it's a fusion of Karate and Taekwondo. He pulls of some flashy moves which look impressive but wouldn't be of much practical use in a real fight. For example, both Batman and Robin perform flash kicks.


At one point Batman executes a tornado kick (at least I think this is a tornado kick, but it's hard to see clearly), which I believe is a Taekwondo move.


He does make some limited use of throws. The most notable example of this is when he and Robin perform synchronised stomach throws during the fight scene at the museum.


Incidentally, the Adam West Batman did the exact same thing with the Green Hornet in the Batman (1966) episode 'Batman's Satisfaction' (season 2 episode 52).


Clooney's Batman also throws Bane over his shoulder at one point, though there isn't much skill involved in this particular move.


And that's about all I've got to say on the fighting style of the Schumacher Batman. Combining Kilmer and Clooney's skills, we end up with a fusion of Wing Chun, Hapkido, Ju-Jitsu (Japanese and/or Brazilian), Taekwondo and Karate. Comparing this to the fighting style of Burton's Batman, Schumacher's is more energetic, graceful and acrobatic, but overall less functional. Burton's Batman uses a more grounded, brutal style of fighting that incorporates techniques from approximately eight different martial arts. Schumacher's Batman uses a flashier style that draws from around four or five different martial arts.

Of course I could be way off the mark with this analysis, but this is just my attempt at breaking down the fight scenes. If I've made any mistakes, or missed anything significant, then please chime in. Do you like the fighting style of Schumacher's Batman? How do you think he would cope against the villains from the other Batman films? Do you have a favourite fight scene from BF or B&R?

Guess I never thought of it before. But you are quite correct, Schumacher's Batman doesn't really do a whole lot of fighting. The bank fight is probably his most impressive showcase. Arguably, it's all downhill from there.

Still, I would nuance your remarks by suggesting that Clooney's Batman has had a fair amount of boxing in his background. Probably not to the same degree as, say, Keaton's Batman. Especially when it comes to taking punishment. But I think Clooney's punches are meant to be a sort of Rocky Marciano type of fisticuffs: quick, explosive shots which use relatively little energy. Which makes sense given that Clooney's is a bit more of an elder statesman Batman than his predecessors.

For that reason, I can't picture Clooney's Batman overcoming Nolan's League of Shadows with anything less than pure heart and soul. Because he just doesn't have the movies to stack up with them. Power, yes. But that only goes so far in any confrontation.

For different reasons, I can't picture Kilmer's Batman doing much better in a sustained battle. Kilmer has a lot of power and some level of mastery across an impressive range of forms and schools. Not somebody I'd want to tangle with even on my best day.

But I think Kilmer's undoing would ultimately come from his reliance on flashy moves. All those spins, flips and other things really drain a lot of energy. Where Clooney would nail two or three LOS ninjas GOOD before being brought down, I would expect Kilmer to lay several of them out early on but eventually succumb to physical exhaustion from the unnecessary energy-burning.

Frankly, Keaton would probably hang with any LOS ninjas and probably beat them all. He can adapt to unexpected situations or physically larger opponents more deftly than his successors.

Clooney would go down early, I think. Kilmer would last longer but still lose. Keaton would probably win, full-stop.

The biggie. Nolan's Bane. Clooney's boxing would come in handy here, I think. He would hammer away at Bane's face and chest. Bane might be overall faster but I think Clooney might make up for that with raw firepower. What Clooney lacks in dynamics he somewhat makes up for with strength in a fight with Nolan's Bane. It could be interesting.

Don't get me wrong, Clooney couldn't hope to out-muscle Nolan's Bane. This, I do affirm. But a strong offense focused on Bane's mask is known to be highly effective and that approach favors Clooney, hands down.

Kilmer wouldn't fare much better than Bale did during his first TDKRises face-off. "You fight like a younger man. Nothing held back. Admirable, but mistaken". Kilmer's energy expenditures would come back to haunt him (perhaps fatally) in any showdown with Bane. I think Clooney would intuitively understand that you have conserve your energy when fighting Bane. He wouldn't need a round two to get it right.

But not only would Kilmer's Batman probably not understand that but I don't think Nolan's Bane would be foolhardy enough to let Kilmer's Batman even have a round two. Bane would know that he needs to let Kilmer wear himself down before moving in for the kill.

Here again, Keaton would probably outlast both Kilmer and Clooney. But this isn't about Keaton so we'll skip that.

Ra's. Honestly, Ra's was such a dynamic and powerful fighter that it's hard to imagine anybody overcoming him. Even Bale technically never did. He baited Ra's into a trap and ran out the clock. Frankly, that may be the only way of overcoming a superior fighter like Ra's. If any of the Batmen ever could defeat Ra's, my money's on Keaton. Because I honestly don't know who else could do it.

Ra's would wear Kilmer down the same way Bane would. Clooney would probably require more finesse. I would see Ra's trying (and probably succeeding) at overpowering Clooney or else overwhelming him with a rain of blows that Clooney couldn't block. The risk is Ra's wearing himself out. But I wager that the sheer ferocity would probably be enough to overwhelm Clooney's defenses. Theatricality and deception would be powerful agents indeed against Clooney, I suspect.

As with Bane, Ra's would know to end Kilmer and Clooney as quickly as possible once he'd secured victory. Ra's wouldn't want to risk having to defeat them again.

Since I've mentioned Keaton a time or two, I honestly don't know how he defeats Ra's. Or if he defeats him at all. But I maintain that of the three, Keaton stands a better chance of walking away victorious (or even just walking away) than Kilmer or Clooney.

Sun, 31 Mar 2019, 10:50 #2 Last Edit: Sun, 31 Mar 2019, 10:52 by The Dark Knight
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 30 Mar  2019, 23:33
Do you like the fighting style of Schumacher's Batman? How do you think he would cope against the villains from the other Batman films? Do you have a favourite fight scene from BF or B&R?
BatKilmer's combat during the opening bank sequence is admirable, though I don't think it's enough to put down Hardy's Bane. I think the only incarnation that's capable of not just surviving TDK Rises Bane, but dominating him, is Batfleck. As for Neeson's Ras, I think BatKilmer would give it a shot, but he'd ultimately struggle. Though I can see him putting down Scarecrow, TDK Dent and Ledger's Joker. Clooney's Batman would be beaten to a pulp by Hardy's Bane. But then again, he's a Batman for a different time and place. His own version of Bane isn't a serious threat and neither is he.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Mar  2019, 01:31Still, I would nuance your remarks by suggesting that Clooney's Batman has had a fair amount of boxing in his background. Probably not to the same degree as, say, Keaton's Batman. Especially when it comes to taking punishment. But I think Clooney's punches are meant to be a sort of Rocky Marciano type of fisticuffs: quick, explosive shots which use relatively little energy. Which makes sense given that Clooney's is a bit more of an elder statesman Batman than his predecessors.

I hadn't considered boxing for Clooney, but you could be right. Kilmer's Batman doesn't demonstrate any boxing skills that I can see, but Clooney's Batman packs some impressive striking power with his fists. He punches a hole through a tray to knock out a bad guy and later finishes off Mr Freeze with a right hook.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Mar  2019, 01:31But I think Kilmer's undoing would ultimately come from his reliance on flashy moves. All those spins, flips and other things really drain a lot of energy. Where Clooney would nail two or three LOS ninjas GOOD before being brought down, I would expect Kilmer to lay several of them out early on but eventually succumb to physical exhaustion from the unnecessary energy-burning.

That's a good point about energy expenditure. Dave Lea specifically customised the fighting style of the Burton Batman so he wouldn't needlessly waste energy, but the Schumacher Batman's more animated approach to combat would quickly drain his strength. It's fine if you're going for the one-hit knockout against enemies with glass jaws, but it's not so useful in a drawn-out brawl against someone who can take a hit and keep on going (e.g. Bane or Ra's al Ghul).

The choreography also makes it look as if Bat-Kilmer has poor situational awareness. He leaps into the middle of skirmishes and allows himself to be surrounded by enemies. He only has two fight scenes in the Batsuit, and both of them include a moment where he gets grabbed from behind by one of his opponents. Compare that with Bat-Keaton, whose situational awareness was so sharp he could detect an attacker's presence without even looking at them.


Another possible weak area for Bat-Kilmer would be his lack of technique for dealing with blades and other melee weapons. We see him knock guns out of people's hands, but we never see how he does against knives. He gets charged by a goon wearing a bladed gauntlet during the bank fight, but all Batman does is step out of the way. He doesn't intercept or confiscate the blades. The Burton Batman had Escrima for dealing with melee weapons, and I believe the KFM used by Baleman incorporates disarming techniques similar to those in Krav Maga. But Schumacher's Batman is never shown to have a comparable system for handling those sorts of weapons. Because of this he might have struggled against the swordsman in the 1989 film, the League of Shadows warriors, and perhaps even some of the blade-wielding members of the Red Triangle Gang.

Come to think of it, we never see Kilmer's Batman fight any really challenging adversaries one on one. Bat-Clooney defeats Bane and Mr Freeze, and even owns Robin at one point. But Bat-Kilmer only ever fights low-level henchmen. But of course just because we don't see him fight a tougher opponent doesn't mean that he couldn't do so if the situation called for it.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Mar  2019, 01:31Ra's. Honestly, Ra's was such a dynamic and powerful fighter that it's hard to imagine anybody overcoming him. Even Bale technically never did. He baited Ra's into a trap and ran out the clock. Frankly, that may be the only way of overcoming a superior fighter like Ra's. If any of the Batmen ever could defeat Ra's, my money's on Keaton. Because I honestly don't know who else could do it.

It's hard to call that fight, but I think Bat-Keaton would win. It would be a very tough battle – much tougher than his fights against Catwoman – but I reckon he could probably pull it off with the aid of his armour and weapons. I think the four League of Shadows warriors would be a tougher challenge for Keaton. He could probably beat them individually. But all four of them, simultaneously attacking him from different directions? That might be too much for his restricted manoeuvrability to cope with.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Mar  2019, 01:31The biggie. Nolan's Bane. Clooney's boxing would come in handy here, I think. He would hammer away at Bane's face and chest. Bane might be overall faster but I think Clooney might make up for that with raw firepower. What Clooney lacks in dynamics he somewhat makes up for with strength in a fight with Nolan's Bane. It could be interesting.

Don't get me wrong, Clooney couldn't hope to out-muscle Nolan's Bane. This, I do affirm. But a strong offense focused on Bane's mask is known to be highly effective and that approach favors Clooney, hands down.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 31 Mar  2019, 10:50Clooney's Batman would be beaten to a pulp by Hardy's Bane. But then again, he's a Batman for a different time and place. His own version of Bane isn't a serious threat and neither is he.

Hmmm. Bat-Clooney vs. Hardy's Bane is an interesting matchup. I think Bat-Clooney could put up a good fight. His martial arts skills may be limited and definitely skewer towards exhibition-style fighting, but his physical feats are surprisingly impressive. For one thing, he's insanely agile. His gravity-defying ability to glide and change direction midair borders on flying.






The only other live action Batman who comes close in terms of agility is Batfleck, but I think Clooney may take the gold medal in this one particular field (and only this field).

He's also immensely strong. He was able to casually pick up and carry Robin, plus the weight of all his armour and equipment, without breaking a sweat. That's got to be close to 200lbs and Bruce wasn't struggling in the slightest.



He was also strong enough to wrench a metal pipe out of a piece of factory machinery and use it to knock Bane out with one hit.


In terms of durability, there are deleted moments from the finale which show Bat-Clooney taking several direct hits from Mr Freeze. These can be seen in the trailer.


Earlier in the film Freeze's punches were shown to be strong enough to send security guards flying twenty or thirty feet through the air. One of Freeze's punches is shown to dent a steel railing as if it were cardboard. He's much stronger than Hardy's Bane, and Bat-Clooney was able to withstand his attacks and defeat him. Of course Freeze was nowhere near as fast or skilled as Hardy's Bane, and he certainly didn't have his stamina or durability. Bat-Clooney's martial arts skills are more limited than those of Baleman and Nolan Bane, but he could probably match their strength (and possibly their durability) and could outclass them in terms of agility. Bane's striking speed is faster however. So this is another bout that's difficult to call.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 31 Mar  2019, 23:05Hmmm. Bat-Clooney vs. Hardy's Bane is an interesting matchup. I think Bat-Clooney could put up a good fight. His martial arts skills may be limited and definitely skewer towards exhibition-style fighting, but his physical feats are surprisingly impressive. For one thing, he's insanely agile. His gravity-defying ability to glide and change direction midair borders on flying.
It's sad that what I have always loved about Clooney Batman is the acrobatic stuff and yet I never considered how that might impact a hypothetical showdown with Hardy Bane.

You are right though. Clooney wouldn't think twice about using acrobatics to bring his full body weight down on Bane. Bale Batman relied on fists to overcome Bane. And in a certain sense, he was successful.

But Hardy Bane getting front-stomped again and again by Clooney Batman would eventually wear even Hardy Bane down. Clooney Batman's agility combined with his energy-saving fighting tactics could keep Hardy Bane at bay, which would be crucial for Clooney Batman to do. Clooney Batman is the rare iteration of the character that is a threat both from afar AND up-close. And he would be wise enough, I think to recognize that air-superiority matters greatly in a fight against Bane.

In fact, Bale Batman has (or could have had) a similar advantage and I find it telling that he never realized it and never used it.

So come to think of it, of all the Batmen from the original franchise, Clooney Batman might actually stand a slightly better chance of defeating Hardy Bane than even Keaton Batman.

This ability to launch long range attacks and use his own body as a projectile could also benefit him in a battle with Ra's.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the thread about Affleck Batman. His fighting style is so brutal that I can't wait for things to get picked apart and analyzed.

I do think you argue Clooney's case quite well, Silver. Better than I thought he could be. His strength lies in gliding and being physically strong. However I still don't see it equating to victory. In a head to head smack down with nothing but your fists Clooney gets pulverised. An acrobatic leap from a distance doesn't equate to much when the entirety of a fight is considered. Hardy's Bane can crush a windpipe with one squeeze, without even paying attention.

I think Kilmer and Clooney best line up against regular goons. I think Keaton has elements of this, but he radiates more of a cool, professional vibe – swordpunching and dispatching goons without even looking. I think Keaton would be able to sustain the punishment of Hardy's Bane much better, as evident with Ray Charles. And would probably dispatch him in a similar way. I'm a Keaton loyalist, so for the life of me can't see him admitting defeat. He'd persevere and find a way to win.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  1 Apr  2019, 01:57But Hardy Bane getting front-stomped again and again by Clooney Batman would eventually wear even Hardy Bane down. Clooney Batman's agility combined with his energy-saving fighting tactics could keep Hardy Bane at bay, which would be crucial for Clooney Batman to do. Clooney Batman is the rare iteration of the character that is a threat both from afar AND up-close. And he would be wise enough, I think to recognize that air-superiority matters greatly in a fight against Bane.

His agility would be particularly useful during Batman's first encounter with Nolan Bane. That first fight took place on a multilevel battlefield and Bane exploited that fact by knocking Baleman off the catwalks.




Bat-Clooney would have been better equipped to handle that battlefield in terms of vertical manoeuvrability. He could probably have used the environment to his advantage more effectively than Baleman. And since Bat-Clooney isn't a ninja, he wouldn't have made the mistake of trying to use the shadows against Bane like Baleman did. I don't know if Clooney had enough strengths/skills overall to defeat Bane, but I believe he could have at least put up a respectable fight.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  1 Apr  2019, 01:57Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the thread about Affleck Batman. His fighting style is so brutal that I can't wait for things to get picked apart and analyzed.

Maybe we could do the Batfleck thread next. There are several videos and articles online that have already analysed his fighting style, but I'd like us to have our own discussion on the subject here on Batman Online. I'll probably post some of the videos first – that way we give full credit to the YouTube creators who've already covered the topic – then follow that up with our own analyses and discussion. Batfleck ranks alongside the Nolan Batman in terms of the number of martial arts he uses, so there's a lot to be said about his fighting style.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon,  1 Apr  2019, 12:09Hardy's Bane can crush a windpipe with one squeeze, without even paying attention.

That's a good demonstration of Nolan Bane's devastating strength. Another can be seen in the way he lifts Batman into the air with one arm. Supposedly Bale weighed around 195lbs when he filmed TDKR, although the promotional 'wanted' poster lists him as 210lbs like the comic book Batman.


Either way, when you factor in the weight of his armour and weapons he was well over 200lbs. And yet Bane lifted him like he weighed nothing at all...


...and continued to pummel him with his free arm.


Then there's this memorable example of his striking power and speed.


As well as demonstrating Bane's strength, this is also a good durability showing for Baleman. He was able to tank multiple powerful blows to the body and head and still keep on fighting.

I think Bat-Clooney could take a lot of punishment too. But could he actually put down Nolan Bane? If he went for the mask he could, but I'm not sure it would occur to him to do that. He didn't go for the Schumacher Bane's Venom tubes when he fought him in B&R, and he didn't think to exploit Freeze's vulnerability to heat until the end of the movie. So I'm not sure it would occur to him to go straight for Nolan Bane's mask either. At least not during their first fight. But maybe during the rematch.

Here's a look at how a Bat-Clooney vs. Nolan Bane fight might have played out.


Talking of physical strength, Bat-Kilmer doesn't have many impressive feats in that area. Not compared with West, Keaton, Clooney, Bale and Affleck. His most impressive display of striking power would be the deleted scene where slices the top off the wooden dummy with a roundhouse kick.


Kilmer's Batman would seem to have a skill advantage over Clooney's, mainly thanks to the diverse martial arts techniques he utilises during the first fight scene at the bank. But Batman's performance during that scene does not reflect how he fights throughout the rest of the film. Ignore the bank scene, and I'd say their skills are pretty equal. But since Clooney has the advantage in terms of strength and agility, combined with the fact he defeated tougher opponents, I'd say his Batman would likely defeat Kilmer's in combat. At least that's my take.



One note in Bale Batman's favor is his implied threshold for pain. Kidney punches are probably the most painful strike you can make on somebody. There's a reason NFL players where a lot of padding in that area. And even that isn't always enough.

Bale Batman obviously has a lot of padding there as well. But it's worth asking how much protection his armor really offers over his kidneys considering that his mask is probably thicker than the armor protecting his kidneys and Hardy Bane cracked his cowl anyway.

If he cracked the cowl, what must he have done to Bale Batman's kidney plating? It was more than nothing and Bale just needed a breather afterward, But he didn't give up the fight. When he said "I'll fight harder, I always have" to Alfred, he wasn't kidding around.

If any one of us takes a kidney punch in a fight, that's it. Fight's over. But it wasn't over for Bale Batman, even though he was old, flabby and out of shape. That's some really incredible endurance and pain-tolerance.

I cannot overemphasize how paralyzingly painful kidney shots are. Just one kidney shot is all most people need to go down for the count.

Bale took two and just needed a minute to catch his breath. I've never even come close to touching that level of drive and endurance.

You're not wrong, colors. We also must not lose sight of the purpose of that sewer fight. Much like the original Knightfall demolition, the aim is to present an older Batman getting his ass kicked. However unlike the comics, Baleman actually has enough left in the tank to get to his feet and keep going (wounded as he may be).

As Bane said, his spirit did not break, his body did. Just imagine IF Baleman beat Bane in that sewer fight. He'd be exhausted and locked in a room with machine gunners looking down upon him. The odds were always against him. It was the equivalent of Superman walking into Batman's rigged arena during BvS.

The rematch in Gotham is a more accurate reflection of the two going at it. Bane is still stronger and gets in some heavy blows, but the blows don't devastate Batman as much as before. It's about enduring the pain and finding a way to win, which he does.

Keaton would kill the guy, period. A bomb placed on his chest, machine gunned from an aircraft or thrown from a great height. Batfleck would beat Hardy's Bane and I'd love to see that fight. And this is while wearing his grey unarmored suit. It'd be speed, gadget use (batarang, grapnel gun, etc) and just sheer aggression.

But if the point of that first Bat/Bane fight is to have Batman lose....just imagine how monstrous the Batfleck version of Bane would've been.     

We may as well go ahead and cover the Schumacher Robin's fighting style in this thread.

Apparently Chris O'Donnell did train in martial arts in preparation for these movies, but I'm not sure which style(s) he specifically learned. He uses the Mu ren zhuang – a Wing Chun training instrument – in Bruce's gym during a deleted scene. However he's using it incorrectly, which makes me doubt that O'Donnell actually studied Wing Chun.


He's throwing jabs with a vertical fist here, which is typical of Wing Chun. Karate also includes a vertical fist strike called the Tate-ken. This features particularly prominently in Isshin-Ryū Karate, but is also used in other forms such as Shotokan. In Dick's case, it's difficult to tell which martial art he's using in this scene. It's either Wing Chun or Karate.

At times Robin simply brawls like a street fighter. The best example of this is when he attacks Batman after his fight with the neon gang. In light of his nomadic upbringing, travelling from city to city, it's only natural he'd have some experience getting into brawls.


That said, he does display some more advanced skills when it comes to his kicks. In the following scene, Dick is fighting the neon gang leader portrayed by world kickboxing champion Don 'The Dragon' Wilson.


Wilson's fighting style is a form of kickboxing that mixes Pai Lum Kung-Fu and Gōjū-ryū Karate. I'd guess the form of kickboxing O'Donnell uses is the same style Michael Keaton learned, which is probably a fusion of Taekwondo and Shotokan Karate. The main difference between the way Bat-Keaton implements this style of fighting and the way O'Donnell's Robin uses it is how the latter incorporates his acrobatics into combat.





By today's standards, some of this might qualify as tricking.

O'Donnell's Robin mostly relies on kicks but does occasionally use his fists, particularly when he gets angry. It looks to me like most of his punches draw from his street fighting experience rather than any legitimate boxing training. But his kicks are where he really shines. He mostly uses basic side, front and roundhouse kicks, but also utilises some more ostentatious moves. For example, the flash kick.


There's a deleted shot from the trailer where he takes out three goons with a 360 crescent kick.


Speaking of his kicks, credit to Chris O'Donnell for executing a high-level kick during his first fight against Bane. He manages to elevate his leg to the height of Bane's face, and he does this while wearing the rubber suit. If you pause the DVD you can see it's O'Donnell himself performing this, not his stunt double. Keaton, Kilmer and Bale only ever performed mid-level kicks while wearing their rubber suits, which is understandable considering how restrictive the costumes were.


O'Donnell's Robin uses some very basic staff fighting techniques. We see two examples of this: firstly when he fights the neon gang in Batman Forever, and secondly when he uses a hockey stick against Mr Freeze's goons in Batman & Robin.


I like to think this was a nod to the Tim Drake Robin in the comics. There's not much technique going on here, but we could maybe stretch it and say Robin was using a basic form of Bojustu. Shaolin Kung Fu also utilises staff techniques, but judging from the way he was misusing the Wing Chun dummy in Bruce's gym, I'm sceptical that Dick knows any Chinese martial arts. So I'd say Bojutsu is a more likely bet.

To conclude, the Schumacher Robin's fighting style could be described as a combination of kickboxing and gymnastics. For a more detailed description, I'd guess it's a fusion of Taekwondo, Shotokan Karate, street fighting, Bojutsu and tricking. And possibly Wing Chun, though I'm not sure about that.

As to his weaknesses, he's useless against grappling moves.




^ That last example also illustrates how he lets his anger get the better of him. This typically results in him making clumsy mistakes. For example, when he gets frozen by Freeze following the museum sequence. Another weakness is that he's easily distracted by beautiful women.

For physical feats, Schumacher's Robin was absurdly agile. Even more so than any live action version of Batman. He could basically fly.





He was strong enough to hold on to the exterior of a rocket accelerating towards escape velocity. At one point you can even see him hanging on with one arm.


He doesn't have too many durability feats, though I guess taking a punch from Bane was quite impressive.


So here are two questions to consider. Firstly, how would O'Donnell's Robin have coped against all the villains from the other Batman films? And secondly, is there a live action version of Batman that O'Donnell's Robin could defeat in combat?

I think he could handle all of the villains from the 1989 film with the exception of the sword-wielding Joker goon and the final goon in the bell tower. With his armour, he might have been able to take the goon with the swords. But based on how he struggled against Bane, I reckon he'd lose to Ray Charles in the cathedral. The Joker might also catch him off guard with one of his trick weapons, similar to how Two-Face caught him off guard during their showdown on Claw Island.

He could probably handle everyone in Batman Returns except Catwoman. I think he could match or even surpass Selina in terms of skill, but she'd probably manipulate and distract him with her sexuality long enough to sink her claws in.

He could handle most of the low-level henchmen in Nolan's trilogy, but he'd lose to the League of Shadows warriors. Ra's al Ghul and Bane would almost certainly beat the stuffing out of him and the Joker would exploit his anger to make him slip up.

With the DCEU, he could handle the low-level human henchmen and possibly some Parademons. But Superman, Doomsday and Steppenwolf would own him badly. He could probably survive an encounter against those foes by using his agility to outmanoeuvre them and dodge their attacks, but there's no way he could actually beat any of them.

As far as facing off against the live action Batmen, I reckon he could take Lewis Wilson's version in a fight. He could probably beat Lowery's incarnation too. But aside from them, he'd lose to any other live action Batman.