What would you like to see in Matt Reeves’ The Batman?

[Silver Nemesis]

Seems like it wasn't so long ago we were having this same discussion after The Dark Knight Rises came out. But here we are again, with a new screen version of Batman looming on the horizon. So what ideas would you like to see implemented in the upcoming reboot? What kind of tone would you like the film to have? What visual style? Which villains or stories would you like them to adapt?

Essentially I'd like a live action version of the DCAU Batman. Suitable for kids, but sophisticated enough that adults will enjoy it. If I were to cite a previous adaptation as an example of the tone I'd like, then Batman 89, Batman: The Animated Series and Batman Begins would be the closest. As far as visuals go, I've always been a proponent of the Alex Ross approach. I want to see Batman's most iconic costume return to the big screen. Forget the hi-tech New 52 design and get back to basics. Keep the costume as simple and iconic as possible.

Let's ditch the sculpted rubber muscle suits. They were cool back in the late eighties and early nineties, but it's time to move on. I've been watching a lot of old 1940s superhero film serials lately, and I love the purity of their traditional costume designs. Alyn's Superman and Lowery's Batman look like they stepped right out of the comics of that era.

The short films of Sandy Collora offer a more modern take on what these designs might look like on actors with suitable physiques. This is what Superman and Batman should look like:

For another example, see Jack Brewer as the Adam West Batman in Return to the Batcave (2003). His cowl was a bit off, but the rest of his costume looked great thanks to his imposing height and musculature.

This is the sort of look I want Batman to have in the new film. I don't care if it's unrealistic. This Batman should be so skilled, so fast, so stealthy, that he doesn't need body armour; he makes sure not to get hit in the first place. The actor needs to be above average height and should look as if he's undertaken an intense mixture of cardio, martial arts and heavy weight training. He needs to look at least as jacked as Christian Bale did in Batman Begins. Oh, and I want the longer ears back on the cowl. We haven't seen those since 1997 and it's high time they made a comeback.

As far as personality goes, I'd like to see a slightly lighter, less intense characterisation of Batman this time. I don't mean go full Clooney, but rather something along the lines of the Bronze Age comic book version. Look at how Denny O'Neil wrote Bruce, as well as how he was portrayed in Batman: The Animated Series. That's the sort of characterisation I'd like in the next movie. They should play up the detective angle and make it integral to the plot. I don't just mean have a couple of scenes where he uses the Batcomputer to figure out what to do next. I mean actually show him utilising his deductive skills to identify the villain and track him/her down.

I'd like them to strip back his arsenal of weapons a bit too. Keep it simple. Equip him with some batarangs, a grapple gun, a gas mask, night vision goggles, some smoke bombs and a forensic kit, and leave it at that. He should also only have one vehicle, but not another tank-style Batmobile. We've seen enough of those. The new Batmobile should be a simpler automobile along the lines of the Lincoln Futura from the sixties TV show or the Anton Furst design from the Burton films.

And one of the most important things I'd like to see in the new film – have Batman stick to his Golden Rule. Yes, he's killed in the comics. We all know this. But the fact remains that the 'no kill' rule has been dominant in 90% of the comics since 1940. Let's see it accurately represented from now on. I'd also prefer it if this version of Batman didn't use guns (with the exception of his grapple gun). That includes not having guns on his Batmobile.

I don't mind having other members of the Bat-Family show up, but only if they're properly introduced. I don't want the film to begin in a Gotham where there are already numerous Robins and other vigilantes operating in the area. Start off with just Batman on his own, then add Dick Grayson in the sequel. It's about time we saw a new take on Robin's origin story. Then perhaps they could attempt a decent treatment of the Barbara Gordon Batgirl in the third film. But aside from that, I don't want to see any other superheroes making cameos in Batman's solo films. By all means leave the door open for a possible Justice League movie in the future, but for now keep the solo films focused on Batman and Robin (and possibly Batgirl). Nobody else. And if Robin does show up, he should be played by a real teenager.

I want Gotham City to return to the more stylised depictions of the past. It was an interesting experiment to see them use real cities in the most recent films, but I'd much rather have a Gothic Art Deco style metropolis filled with gargoyles, cathedral spires and airships flying overhead. Look at Burton's Gotham, the B:TAS version and the drawings of artists like Darwyne Cook and Tim Sale.

I want to see a DC universe that looks like an alternate reality, where you're not quite sure if it's the past or the future. I'd particularly like to see a stylised version of Metropolis that could equal the most memorable cinematic representations of Gotham. A Metropolis in which the architecture displays a New World's Fair retro-futurist aesthetic mixed with elements of Art Deco. It should look like the city of tomorrow, as envisaged in the 1930s. They could use the Fleischer Studios cartoons, Superman: The Animated Series and Fritz Lang's Metropolis for inspiration.

I'd like all the other DC cities to look equally stylised, but each in their own unique way. I've got a vision of what I'd like Central City to look like – filled with vast skyscrapers constructed in a red brick collegiate style, with elevated runways stretching between the buildings and vast clock towers perched on every rooftop. That would create an interesting visual contrast to Gotham and Metropolis.

For villains, I'd love to see Catwoman return. And I mean Catwoman, not just Selina or 'The Cat'. And I want them to move away from the street thief portrayal presented in The Dark Knight Rises and Gotham. Instead let's get back to the glamorous socialite version of Selina who has an exciting civilian life to complement her costumed antics. She should wear the classic cowl, ideally with a purple dress. And the actress playing her should be super buff to match whoever's playing Batman.

Let's also see some of the more comic bookish villains return. How about a live action version of Man-Bat created with practical creature effects?. Or Hugo Strange and his giant monster men? Or how about reuniting Poison Ivy with Mr. Freeze for a more dramatic reimagining of Batman & Robin?

Well those are just a few of my thoughts to get things started. What about everyone else?

[The Dark Knight]

You touch upon a lot of good points that I agree with. But for the purposes of my own post, I'll start from scratch.

I'm on board with the alleged Robert Pattinson rumor making the rounds. Yes, you read correctly. And hear me out.

At first I was like I assume most people. Pattinson? That Twilight punk? What a joke, please don't be true!

But I let the idea sit with me for a while, and I'm warming to it. Why do you ask? Because on paper he actually seems to have a lot going for him. At 32 years of age he's a young man, which is exactly the point of Reeves' film - and he has the height. Much like Ben Affleck, who he actually kinda resembles as a younger version, I can envision him navigating the playboy and business worlds quite easily.

Keaton was pigeonholed as Mr Mom, but he showed he could be more than that. Affleck proved people wrong as well. I think having a name actor of some degree does help somewhat as well.

So for these reasons, I wouldn't be ripping my hair out if he got the job.



But on from there, what would I like to see from the film itself?

Batman as a detective, as Reeves himself seems to want. Using flashlights ala BTAS, crime scene investigations ala the Arkham games, and research and deductions back at the batcave ala Adam West.

There's a lot of untapped potential here cinematically.

I'd like to see Bruce Wayne as the Gotham celebrity and businessman. A younger actor gives a lot of scope in this regard. He's basically just starting out so he should be an exciting star. The Telltale series nailed the duality of Bruce Wayne and Batman really well, and it's something I think the films should explore in more depth.

A Penguin/Hush foe could be useful in this regard.

But that said, how about a film that reduces the Bruce Wayne aspect for one film of a trilogy? I'm talking about something like Arkham Asylum, where Bruce is in the suit all the time. He's locked into a situation and is in character until the City is saved. Something like that is pure comic book, and hasn't been done before in the franchise. Perhaps that may suit a second film better once the new man has been established.

Gotham City fleshed out as a character again. I like Snyder, but we never got to see his true vision of Gotham. I'm after something expressionistic, but probably with enough real world aesthetic to ground it somewhat. A more traditional Batmobile ala Burton and Kilmer would be neat.

All in all, I'm eager to see how this all develops.

[thecolorsblend]

A lot of neat Batman stuff from comics has been adapted. But a lot hasn't. One trope that I can never get enough of is Bruce's bat-shaped shadow.



I like the symbolism of Batman being Bruce's ultimate truth, the thing he can't ever truly escape from. Symbols are wide open to interpretation by design and I like the idea of Batman (as an abstract concept) stalking Bruce Wayne, always on the periphery.

Apart from that, I think all this Year One, Long Halloween and TDKR stuff has been done to death. I'd like to see other things be emphasized.

Batman vs. The Vampire could be great fodder for a different type of Batman film. The supernatural-horror bit is an established, though overlooked, element of Batman lore. I'd like to see at least someone attempt to do it. It doesn't necessarily have to be Batman vs. The Vampire though. A story similar in tone would be enough for me.

A more traditional Batcave would be welcome as well. Go the whole nine yards with it. The giant penny, the T-rex, veritable garage of Batmobiles and all that.

I make no secret of my desire for a late Golden Age, Dick Sprang-influenced 1950's type of Batman movie. Something comparable to The Brave & The Bold. I have no idea how successful it would be. Maybe I'm the only one who wants it. But I'd love it. And since this post is about what I want...

As a more general statement, I'm also a proponent of doing an anthology franchise for Batman. A whole new ball of wax with each new film: different director, different cast, different tone, different continuity, different everything.

Do a Kane/Finger Detective Comics story for one movie, follow it up with a Dick Sprang-like movie for the next one, follow that up with a Moench/Colan early-mid 80's Batman story, follow that up with an Englehart/Rogers type of movie, etc. Heck, you can even set those movies in the same time period as when the original comics came out to further separate them from each other.

Do ultra-high budget mega-blockbuster films, mid-budget action movies, low budget horror movies, etc. We keep hearing about how dynamic Batman is as a character. But you wouldn't necessarily know that quite as well based on Batman's live action depictions. Isn't it time that we balance the ledger on that a little bit? Do different kinds of Batman movies designed to appeal to different audiences?

WB has lost to Marvel when it comes to creating a shared universe. We can point fingers at whoever we want for that but it won't change the facts. So why not embrace it? Do things Marvel can't. Be different. Take risks. DC characters have done more than anybody to create the modern comic book film as we know it. So why not flip the script, so to speak, and show what else can be done?

Do all the stuff Marvel would never have the paired reproductive organs to attempt! I consider the Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie as a bit of a step in the right direction. It looks like a gritty, relatively low budget, 1970's style New Hollywood film. It looks like it's being made for love of the game by people who are passionate about it. That same passion can be brought to other types of films.

If WB wants to be viable in this MCU world we live in now, they have to be prepared to take some risks.

[The Dark Knight]

Apart from that, I think all this Year One, Long Halloween and TDKR stuff has been done to death. I'd like to see other things be emphasized.

Fair call. TDK Returns especially, while being my number one incarnation of the mythos, needs a break. And while I like that story it's not all I like. Far from it. We had a very strong representation of TDK Returns with Dawn of Justice and Ben Affleck. I would now angle towards The Dark Moon Rising series (Mad Monk and the Monster Men) because it ticks a lot of boxes. It has a younger Batman but old enough to be beyond the origin story. A batsuit without body armor, as Silver Nemesis advocates for, and the universe being moodier with elements of the supernatural.

Batman himself is also shown to be more of a detective and chemist - and has a sense of vulnerability. He does sustain a degree of damage throughout his duties, but he doesn't come off as weak. He comes off as resilient, while still inflicting a high degree of damage himself. The closer relationship to Gordon (even more so than Bale and Oldman) could be a good idea, too. Attending crime scenes frequently...that typical dynamic from the comics we haven't seen much from in the films.

[Travesty]

Essentially I'd like a live action version of the DCAU Batman. Suitable for kids, but sophisticated enough that adults will enjoy it. If I were to cite a previous adaptation as an example of the tone I'd like, then Batman 89, Batman: The Animated Series and Batman Begins would be the closest. As far as visuals go, I've always been a proponent of the Alex Ross approach. I want to see Batman's most iconic costume return to the big screen. Forget the hi-tech New 52 design and get back to basics. Keep the costume as simple and iconic as possible.

This is literally the same thing I've been saying for years. You and I have the exact same references we want. It's kinda bizarre how exact it is.

The only thing I would change, is Alex Ross has the black emblem, and I would introduce the oval. That's really it. Other than that, exactly what you just said.

[Silver Nemesis]

So far I love all the ideas expressed in this thread.

I'd love to see a Brave & the Bold style movie. After how dark they went with TDK, TDKR and BvS (and I'm not knocking any of those films – I enjoy all three of them) I think it's time to go a little lighter.

I also like the anthology concept, although I wonder if that might work better as a big budget TV show. Either way, an anthology format would allow us to get a proper Gotham by Gaslight adaptation and Batman Beyond movie starring Keaton, all within a few short years. I'd be down with that.

The idea of a claustrophobic Arkham-style story where Batman remains in costume is also appealing. You could have glimpses of Bruce Wayne in the form of photographs or news reports in the background, but you don't actually see him for real until the final scene where Batman removes his cowl. Kind of like Samus Aran removing her helmet at the end of the Metroid games.

I'd welcome the return of the yellow oval around the chest emblem. It's crazy to think they haven't used that in a live action movie since 1995.

All in all, I'm sensing a lot of nostalgia for the Pre-Crisis comics here, and in particular for the Silver and Bronze Ages. We all seem to want:

•   a stronger emphasis on the detective aspect of the character
•   a visual style that more accurately reflects the classic iconography in the comics
•   spooky and supernatural villains
•   a faithfulness to the source material to match the best animated versions of Batman
•   streamlined Bat-gear, without body armour or tank designs
•   less influence derived from the New 52 era

Hopefully other fans will be thinking along the same lines and Matt Reeves will take note.

[thecolorsblend]

One thing that really bothers me about comic fans is when they assume that certain comic ideas would never work in live action because certain comic ideas would never work in live action. Superman fans say stuff like that all the time about Silver Age concepts like Superboy, the Legion Of Super-Pets, the bottled city of Kandor, etc.

With Batman, the conventional wisdom goes that Robin either can't be done at all or else he has to be at least 18 years old. Why? Who says? Is there a reason we can't get a Batman movie co-starring a 13 year old Dick Grayson? I admit that certain ideas are more credible than others. I can buy into 13 year old Robin running around Gotham City having adventures with Batman. I cannot buy into 13 year old Robin fighting grown men hand-to-hand and winning without a ton of help from someone else.

Point being that I want to see 13 year old Robin in the classic Robin outfit running around Gotham City having adventures with Batman. In my mind, the tone of the movie should be crafted around making that concept credible. I can understand where that wouldn't work in TDK. So the answer is to not make a movie like TDK. Make a movie with an internal reality which supports the idea of a young Robin.

I love the Batman movies we've gotten up to now. They all have their own value in the character's canon. But largely the movies we've seen so far aren't exactly miles away from each other in terms of tone and style. At least, not when compared to Batman's rich and diverse publication history. It pains me that so much of Batman's literary canon is only known to the true believers.

There's so much that makes Batman amazing and it's sad to think that wide audiences have such a skewed, limited perspective of the character.

[The Dark Knight]

I'd welcome the return of the yellow oval around the chest emblem. It's crazy to think they haven't used that in a live action movie since 1995.

I'm not super confident it will return, but I'd love to see it. I'm a yellow oval fan.

[Silver Nemesis]

One thing that really bothers me about comic fans is when they assume that certain comic ideas would never work in live action because certain comic ideas would never work in live action. Superman fans say stuff like that all the time about Silver Age concepts like Superboy, the Legion Of Super-Pets, the bottled city of Kandor, etc.

With Batman, the conventional wisdom goes that Robin either can't be done at all or else he has to be at least 18 years old. Why? Who says? Is there a reason we can't get a Batman movie co-starring a 13 year old Dick Grayson? I admit that certain ideas are more credible than others. I can buy into 13 year old Robin running around Gotham City having adventures with Batman. I cannot buy into 13 year old Robin fighting grown men hand-to-hand and winning without a ton of help from someone else.

Point being that I want to see 13 year old Robin in the classic Robin outfit running around Gotham City having adventures with Batman. In my mind, the tone of the movie should be crafted around making that concept credible. I can understand where that wouldn't work in TDK. So the answer is to not make a movie like TDK. Make a movie with an internal reality which supports the idea of a young Robin.

I agree. Instead of diluting or otherwise altering the characters to make them fit into something resembling our reality, the filmmakers should try creating a fictional reality that can accommodate the characters with minimal changes. The only time this was ever successfully accomplished in live action was the sixties TV show, and that ended over fifty years ago. As you rightly point out colors, the Warner Bros film franchise has largely adhered to the visual language established by Burton in 1989. Each director has put their own spin on it, but none has ever deviated too far from that original approach. Now would be the perfect time to try something new.

Legolas might look silly wandering around a modern day city, but place him in Middle-earth and he blends in perfectly. Fantasy characters need to occupy their own world, and Batman is no exception. I understand why they've made the earlier films more grounded, and that was the right approach to make the material feel relevant at that time. But if we're going to have another reboot, let's make the most of it and do something different. Something purer and more mythical. And to my mind that means creating a world in which a giant penny and robot dinosaur won't look out of place in the Batcave. Why not at least try it and see what happens?

Getting back to the subject of Robin, he should definitely be portrayed as a kid. Douglas Croft was only 16 when played the first live action Robin in 1943. And Burt Ward, despite being in his twenties, certainly looked like he was around 16. There's an interesting caption in 'Storybook Endings' (Batman Vol 1 #713, October 2011) which suggests one of Bruce's reasons for taking a child into battle is to humiliate his enemies.

Batman can handle most crooks with ease. He isn't going to send Robin in on his own and he isn't going to let anything bad happen to him. Rather he'll do the heavy lifting himself, make sure the situation's under control, then let Robin deliver the coup de grâce (figuratively speaking). This is the ultimate humiliation for the bad guys – to be beaten up and apprehended by a little boy. It diminishes their threat in the eyes of the public and is especially reassuring to the children of Gotham. If Batman is all about creating a symbol for criminals and citizens alike, then Robin is a big part of that. He has a practical role to play, but his presence at Batman's side also serves a psychological function.

Dick Grayson's origin story is one of the most memorable narratives in the Batman canon. And yet it's only ever been depicted in one live action film, and that was almost a quarter of a century ago. Isn't it time to revisit that story? I thought Schumacher and O'Donnell delivered a decent nineties take on the character, but how about a fresh interpretation that more accurately reflects the source material?

This is what I want Batman and Robin to look like in the next film.

Exactly like this. Tights and all. This might look weird in the Gotham Cities created by Burton or Nolan, but it wouldn't look weird in a fantasy world filled with giant typewriters and criminals who still wear fedoras and wield Tommy guns in the 21st century. This is the enduring iconography of the comics – the image that has appeared in practically every animated Batman TV series and every live action adaptation prior to the Tim Burton movies.

Obviously there still needs to be some measure of verisimilitude when it comes to the action scenes. Showing a 13-year-old boy knock out a 6'0 200lb grown man with a right hook is not going to fly with most viewers. So the stunt team would need to customise his fighting style to accommodate his strengths and vulnerabilities. Compensate for his lack of size by having him utilise his agility to outmanoeuvre his opponents and throw his full bodyweight behind his attacks. I'd suggest a fusion of tricking, capoeira and wushu, similar to the fighting style used by the 9-year-old Matt Murdock in Daredevil.

^ This is how Robin should fight.

Another important thing is that Bruce and Dick should be friends. This may sound obvious, but we're living at a time when the latest Robin meme is the "f--- Batman" line from Titans. I don't want anything like that in the new film. I don't want the story to begin with a Robin who's already grownup, dead or embittered. We've seen enough depictions of damaged relationships between Batman and Robin. Now it's time for them to be the Dynamic Duo once again; like they were in the comics between 1940 and 1969, and like they were in all the media adaptations prior to 1989. This is another reason why Batman should ditch the armoured suit and go back to his classic grey and blue/black duds. Robin's colourful costume looks silly next to a guy in black body armour, but it visually complements the traditional Batsuit perfectly. And Batman and Robin should complement each other. They should be stronger as a team, not weaker.

If it were up to me I'd call the new movie Batman and Robin. And I'd call the sequel Batman and Robin II. And for the third one, I'd get really creative and call it Batman and Robin III. The simplicity of these titles reflects the purity of the back-to-basics approach I'd favour.

[thecolorsblend]

The Wushu thing is an interesting idea. It uses a lot of energy, but 13 year old kids have ridiculously high endurance. It's easy to imagine a 13 year old boy gravitating toward Wushu.

The other thing is that it's an intuitive choice for Dick, a former-acrobat, to make. He's already mastered his body. It makes sense that he would be able to use Wushu to devastating effect.

And for those times when Dick MUST fight a grownup, well, a lot of adults are flabby, out of shape and not good fighters. Dick's energy and Wushu skills could put him over the type in those specific types of fights and I think Batman would always be on the look out for winnable fights for Dick (A) to boost his confidence and (B) the humiliation aspect you mention.

The tights thing is fine by me too. In fact, I've always assumed that Batman transitioned from a gray and black Bob Kane uniform to a more colorful Carmine Infantino uniform precisely because he's changing his methods and adapting himself to Robin's inclusion with his mission.

In fact, from the standpoint of head canon, the symbolic power of Batman began as one of fear and intimidation before Dick and became about eliminating the fearful atmosphere created by supervillains after Dick joined. I like this approach because it means Dick isn't just Batman's Little Helper. He's contributing to the mission and perhaps directing it in a more positive and healthy (for Bruce) direction. Bruce helped Dick by taking him in... but Dick helped Bruce by (for a time anyway) pulling him out of a very self-destructive cycle.

I can see where tension would inevitably complicate Bruce and Dick's relationship. But as you say, the Bruce and Dick team should largely be defined by their harmony and shared aspirations.